Why can't people dodge?

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Originally Posted by Kiokin

First, why are you ending your posts with "Mei," I can see your name on the side.

Second, I don't understand what you're even trying to say in your first sentence. Reality is the same for everybody. People don't live in separate instances of time. If your internet is so awful that someone playing ~6,473 miles away from the server they're playing on can play perfectly fine and you can't, then unfortunately you might have to find a new game.

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Because Mei is my name Mei Ushu (first name / last name). For the rest actually when it comes to internet, yes we do live in separate realities, subject to some things that we dont control and have to do with what we are handed over depending on where you live, what type of technology you have if it is available everywhere, what server is being used and yadayadayada. I am surprised that ignorance of your level exists. I am not surprised, though, that we are 17 pages later and we still are having this conversation. I am glad that your level of understanding was questioned by someone else then me

At any rate cant force a donkey to drink if not thirsty, it has been known that some donkeys were sto stubborn that they died rather then drink ( no offence meant).

Mei

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

I am glad that your level of understanding was questioned by someone else then me

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Look, noone is saying that that people don't run into these problems. It happens in every single game. It's just more defined in this game becuase the way it's designed. We are just saying that people are using it as a crutch even though they are not lagging at all because on the easier fights, I've seen people dodge just fine with the same type of dodging mechanics but when the fights get harder, it takes more skill so they tend to get hit more and all of a sudden, everything is because of lag. You don't seem to understand the point other people are trying to make. Noone is saying because it doesn't happen to me it shouldnt happen to you but every time they mess up? I seriously doubt that. Don't knock on someone elses's understanding when you can't understand the other side of the argument yourself.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

No other game has threads like this or complaints like this.

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I'm guessing you have played about 2 online games, ever.

You couldn't be any more wrong.

People have been bitching about "lag" since the dawn of online gaming. The sole fact that there exists routing services specific for gaming (WTFast, Battleping, etc) should be all the proof you need.

When you say stuff like:

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

it actually IS SE's responsibility to code for REALITY

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Shows how little you understand the problem. The reaction times in this game are so broad exactly because they know the high latency of the player base. Their main mistake, the .3 positional refresh, has already been patched out to something more reasonable (.1) given the player base. The next step to fulfill what you are asking is to make content even easier in terms of reaction times, which quite honestly are already pathetic.

I've seen people beat Manaya's Core in TERA with 300ms latency. I assure you the reaction times required in that encounter were nowhere near anything in XIV.

What we are really seeing here is a low skilled population that has no intention of improving their own abilities ridding the lag bus, completely delegitimizing those that actually have latency problems. Meanwhile, those with real latency problems feel empowered to make demands because of a faux amount of people "with the same problem".

I do understand that....I think you missed the pages of people DENYING the fact that people do have lag...that is my squalm..not anything else..the rest of course there are people that use it as an excuse BUT those people arent the majority and in here it was and has been as is being stated and re-stated several times if you read all the pages, that people make it up.. is not me that invent it or say what wasnt said..it is written black on white in this very thread, so that is what I am not in agreement meaning you cant put all in the same box, and just because someone is not able to dodge as YOU would like him/her to dodge, aka in time, that said person is bad, noob, stupid that doesnt know anything and has no skills, you cant go and insult those and say that what they are going through is only their fault and the like and in here all do exactly that. How can you tell someone that you dont know, dont have a clue what they experience and the rest, that what they say is a lie ? you tell me...

Re-read this thread totally and then come back and tell me I am wrong...I never said all have lag issues...or did I ?

Mei

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

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How do you know that it's not the majority that are making it up? You have numbers to back it up? I've played these games enough to know that people never own up to their mistakes. It's always excuses after excuses. So to me the majority is making it up. Again. To ME. I'll tell you this, I have no problem with people that can't dodge. Actually I enjoy playing with them as long as they own up to it. I will never belittle the person in any way. I will stay til the last second to keep on trying with these people because it's fun for me to overcome an encounter. We learn together, we get better. My problem is, people don't ever own up to their mistakes and make excuses, that's when I get annoyed. You going to tell me the majority of people in this game own up? Never going to happen. It's always an excuse and it gets old. I respect people way more if they admit their mistakes even though they can't dodge a single thing. I would encourage them and say it's ok because not everyone have the same skill but keep on trying and I will keep on trying with them and we get better together. But please, no excuses.

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Originally Posted by Iriadysa

I'm guessing you have played about 2 online games, ever.

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6, Actually, over the course of the last 15 years or so. FFXI, WoW, Rift, Neverwinter, ESO, and FFXIV. I played end-game in three of those six, with XIV being next on my list.

XIV is wholly unique in the severity and frequency of "lag"-related issues. I'm not the only one reporting the issues, so I guess there is something else going on. Why is it so hard for some of you to understand some of these things we are telling you?

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

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I am totally one I give the benefit of the doubt when people say lag. But I think some don't feel this way because people cry wolf. Some people once scorned don't allow themselves to feel the sting of deceit again. Even if it's legit to them
that trust is gone.

Myself though? I was right there with others back in dec talking about the horrendous rubberbanding. As I was afflicted in the past so I give the benefit even after having been lifted of the accursed rubberbanding. Even with the overwhelming mountain of proof back then people still were denying.

I think its funny that people just ignore when others who respond and are from these "high lag" areas say they do the fights just fine no problem. I guarantee most of the people complaining about lag did not move immediately, just wanted to let that spell finish because it was super close to being done, wanted to get that back rotation hit in quick. You don't have time in this game to do that stuff. Get the fuck out of the way of mechanics. I see this ALL the time, just take the extra second to be out of the stuff and you won't die. Obviously it can be done because like I said, we see people comment "well I live there and I do it all fine" but they just get ignored.

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Originally Posted by Makado

I think its funny that people just ignore when others who respond and are from these "high lag" areas say they do the fights just fine no problem. I guarantee most of the people complaining about lag did not move....

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Well I think this gets ignored because:

A. Difference in reaction time.

B. Not many can adapt to that. (Why should they?) most people without the lag do fine. Fighting the lag and a boss is annoying especially as a healer where you have to fight the boss, lag, and health bars that fluctuate like mad.

C. Lag should be expected in an MMO but this one has you moving via reacting to markers, spawns you name it. Rubberbanding like this while trying your best is not fun. You will see complaints come forward about this because to some this is frustrating and not something they wish to waste time adapting too. When you RB you still have a change of being blindsided hard by mechanics even knowing what's coming.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Why is it so hard for some of you to understand some of these things we are telling you?

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Because it would be admitting a game someone's so invested in isn't perfect and flawless and that's bad.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

6, Actually, over the course of the last 15 years or so. FFXI, WoW, Rift, Neverwinter, ESO, and FFXIV. I played end-game in three of those six, with XIV being next on my list.

XIV is wholly unique in the severity and frequency of "lag"-related issues. I'm not the only one reporting the issues, so I guess there is something else going on. Why is it so hard for some of you to understand some of these things we are telling you?

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If you actually read Iriadysa's comment, your answer was already answered.

What we are really seeing here is a low skilled population that has no intention of improving their own abilities riding the lag bus, completely delegitimizing those that actually have latency problems. Meanwhile, those with real latency problems feel empowered to make demands because of a faux amount of people "with the same problem".

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Originally Posted by Roris

Because it would be admitting a game someone's so invested in isn't perfect and flawless and that's bad.

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Nope, the problem is people using the lag as a crutch for not being able to dodge which when they mess up people start to not believe anyone that blames lag anymore. Blame the people that don't own up to their mistakes which is the majority of gamers these days.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Why is it so hard for some of you to understand some of these things we are telling you?

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I'm sorry to quote myself:

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Originally Posted by Iriadysa

What we are really seeing here is a low skilled population that has no intention of improving their own abilities ridding the lag bus, completely delegitimizing those that actually have latency problems. Meanwhile, those with real latency problems feel empowered to make demands because of a faux amount of people "with the same problem".

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Originally Posted by Roris

I'm sorry the game isn't flawless.

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Neither are the players.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

Nope, the problem is people using the lag as a crutch for not being able to dodge which when they mess up people start to not believe anyone that blames lag anymore. Blame the people that don't own up to their mistakes which is the majority of gamers these days.

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Nope, I don't get why a small minority of people are too quick to judge and instantly blame players first for all their mistakes and assume everyone uses lag as a scapegoat, that's just plain wrong. I'd rather keep blaming the game because I have seen these issues too and like many I don't have them in other online games, though at least my internet does seem more stable and I can dodge in time fine when the servers cooperate thus I have beaten most content without issues, that's about it. Sure you eventually learn to overcompensate for bad server code and start moving earlier and timing stuff to the latency, still doesn't stop the server problems from existing, I'm sorry the game isn't flawless.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Nope, I don't get why a small minority of people are too quick to judge and instantly blame players first for all their mistakes and assume everyone uses lag as a scapegoat, that's just plain wrong. I'd rather keep blaming the game because I have seen these issues too and like many I don't have them in other online games, though at least my internet does seem more stable and I can dodge in time fine when the servers cooperate thus I have beaten most content without issues, that's about it. Sure you eventually learn to overcompensate for bad server code and start moving earlier and timing stuff to the latency, still doesn't stop the server problems from existing, I'm sorry the game isn't flawless.

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LOL, who said the game was flawless? When the majority blames lag for their mistakes instead of owning up for it which delegitimize those that actually do have a problem, I WILL blame the players. Are you saying it's not wrong for people to make excuses?

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

LOL, who said the game was flawless? When the majority blames lag for their mistakes instead of owning up for it which delegitimize those that actually do have a problem, I WILL blame the players. Are you saying it's not wrong for people to make excuses?

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Well you keep making excuses for how the game is badly coded in regards to server response and you are indeed wrong, so yeah. Sure some people will blame lag regardless of learning the fights, a lot more people do face legitimate server issues and they also rightfully blame lag because it is the lag's problem, I don't get what's so hard to understand, guess it's easy to keep apologizing for the game.

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Originally Posted by Tempting

Here ya go people who say there is no lag, and why can't you dodge blah blah.
As long as you can walk outside of a line and STILL get hit, lag (intentional or not) will always be the reasoning behind 90%.

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...b5a999b971.gif

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3 notes

-Video/gif was made in sept/oct 13'
-Servers have improved positioning drastically since then
-Overused outdated gif is overused.

Yes, I see server lag as an issue, as well as player skills. The biggest thing about Titan, EX especially, is how unforgiving it is. I can dodge plumes all day, I miss it once and BAM, dead. Does that mean I suck? No, it means I made a single mistake and I paid for it with death, and it's almost impossible to recover from death in Titan EX. Getting a group together to make NO mistakes is the hardest part.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Well you keep making excuses for how the game is badly coded in regards to server response and you are indeed wrong, so yeah. Sure some people will blame lag regardless of learning the fights, a lot more people do face legitimate server issues and they also rightfully blame lag because it is the lag's problem, I don't get what's so hard to understand, guess it's easy to keep apologizing for the game.

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Please tell me where I'm making excuses? Some people will blame lag? Please!!!!! More like everyone which delegitimize the people that actually ARE having problems. It gets old just like your ability to understand the other side of the argument. But please keep on playing your fanboy card to cover up your incompetence.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

Please tell me where I'm making excuses? Some people will blame lag? Please!!!!! More like everyone which delegitimize the people that actually ARE having problems. It gets old just like your ability to understand the other side of the argument. But please keep on playing your fanboy card to cover up your incompetence.

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You keep being so sure EVERYONE uses lag as a scapegoat, at least that's what your past posts blatantly say. Yeah less skilled people might blame lag for their shortcomings, doesn't doesn't stop the issues from existing in how the game is designed and people from facing those issues.

Should less skilled people stop blaming lag and just say they don't know how or when to dodge then? Maybe. How can you be 100% sure they're all really that bad and they aren't bad because their server connection simply doesn't let them be good, because the game isn't designed in both server code and mechanics for less than nearly perfect and flawless connections? You can't, that's all I'm saying, doesn't take a genius to understand.

Stop blaming the players first, the game has a lot of issues especially in regards to responsiveness, maybe when more people acknowledge them and provide feedback, just like this thread does regardless of how well written and presented it is, they will finally be fixed, ignoring them is bad for the game.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Stop blaming the players first

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I have the right to blame whoever I want. Who are you to tell me what to do?

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

I have the right to blame whoever I want. Who are you to tell me what to do?

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Who are you to tell other people it's always their fault and to stop blaming the game? You're the first one in this thread telling others what to do, so you can do it but others can't? That's just sad.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Who are you to tell other people it's always their fault and to stop blaming the game? You're the first one in this thread telling others what to do, so you can do it but others can't? That's just sad.

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Please tell me where I told people what to do? If you were competent enough to read my comments correctly i was making statements regarding why people don't believe people when they say they are lagging. Again, keep hiding behind calling me a fanboy to cover up your incompetence.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

Please tell me where I told people what to do? If you were competent enough to read my comments correctly i was making statements regarding why people don't believe people when they say they are lagging. Again, keep hiding behind calling me a fanboy to cover up your incompetence.

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You keep telling people to "own up for their mistakes" and you're always sure it is entirely their fault.

"How do you know that it's not the majority that are making it up? You have numbers to back it up? I've played these games enough to know that people never own up to their mistakes. It's always excuses after excuses. So to me the majority is making it up."

So yes, the only incompetence is from you for being so certain about those statements and assuming the majority is making stuff up every time they're hit, by doing that you are indeed delegitimizing the real server issues and again, that's just plain bad for the game. I agree that people should say something when they mess up by their own fault, I have seen people do that all the time without blaming lag, I myself admit it when I screw up even though I haven't been hit by both Titans since they were released. Again, only ignorant people instantly and blindly blame others when people mention lag because they are ignoring the server responsiveness issues that do exist, but I guess you are "entitled" to your opinion and nothing will change it, just like the state of these server issues won't, take care.

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Originally Posted by Roris

You keep telling people to "own up for their mistakes" and you're always sure it is entirely their fault.

"How do you know that it's not the majority that are making it up? You have numbers to back it up? I've played these games enough to know that people never own up to their mistakes. It's always excuses after excuses. So to me the majority is making it up."

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Tell me where in that statement I'm telling people what to do? I made a statement from my point of view. Nothing in that statement even implies that I'm telling people what to do. All I see there is your incompetent reading skills.

Lag is a real problem. Who here can say with a straight face they didn't get hit by plumes even though their character was outside the area? What it shows on screen and what actually happens is different.
The difference between experienced players and inexperienced ones is that they learned how to fight lag. You don't wait for stuff to appear on screen, you move slightly ahead. Not much ahead as to make others eat your plume but just enough and after many tries it becomes second nature to know the right moment. That doesn't mean lag disappeared now, it only means you now know how to deal with it for this particular fight. New fight appears, you have to learn again how to preemptively move and avoid stuff.
I continuously hear from new players "but I was out". Yeah, you were out of the area on your screen, in this game that doesn't matter.

It's entirely the tone of your posts and it's not just projection on my part or however you want to discard it, it's basic English language really, I don't know how competent you are with it. You might not say it directly but you're always implying people should always blame themselves first instead of the game, you are always stating the majority blame lag when you yourself don't have the numbers to prove it's because of their skills or because of the current existing and very real server issues. It is your opinion and I respect it but it is wrong, it's an opinion that delegitimizes and belittles existing server issues, an opinion that will lead devs to constantly ignore all these responsiveness issues and do nothing about them because people like you are ok with them, because that's how the game works apparently.

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Originally Posted by Edli

Yeah, you were out of the area on your screen, in this game that doesn't matter.

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And that's precisely what I said in an earlier post. You have to know it's coming, and then once you do, you can figure out how to stand to *mostly* stay out of it. That's not testing skill - that's testing your ability to remember every single nuance of a fight after failing it x amount of times before.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Nice switching to personal insults to once again belittle these very real issues and sweep them under the rug, I'm sure as a fan that will help the game in the long run.

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I tell it like it is.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

And that's precisely what I said in an earlier post. You have to know it's coming, and then once you do, you can figure out how to stand to *mostly* stay out of it.

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Sure and that's my point. That doesn't mean the game doesn't have lag, that means an experienced player learned how to deal with it. If you get hit while the character on the screen is outside that is lag, just plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

I tell it like it is.

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By closing your eyes and plugging your ears when someone says the game has issues? That's great, nice equipment though, I'm sure you've experienced these issues first hand in content where it matters the most like Second Coil and what not, so your opinion obviously can hold more weight because you've faced these actual issues.

Lots of ignorance, arrogance and flaming in this thread. That gif shown earlier? Still happens. I've had many many times when I've hopped out of an AoE like that and STILL get hit. Lag isn't an excuse but at the same time there are people who are affected by it, so it can be a legit problem

Are there some who are horrible? Yes, because many are first timers doing it, were we horrible like they were at one point? Yes, not everyone was perfect on their first run, some just need to get off their high horse just because they're high ilvl now and consider themselves perfect. When the game/patches first came out there weren't videos to review, so how did they learn? Trial and Error.

Another problem? People clustering too close together and getting a good amount of people hit for an AoE intended for one person. There can be many problems. It can be lag, it can be poor skill, or it can be just poor luck or a brain fart. Get butthurt over it? Walk away and take a breather, simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Roris

By closing your eyes and plugging your ears when someone says the game has issues? That's great, nice equipment though, I'm sure you've experienced these issues first hand in content where it matters the most like Second Coil and what not, so your opinion obviously can hold more weight because you've faced these actual issues.

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Look, stop with the stupid assumptions. I made a statement of my point of view on why I don't believe people when they blame it on lag and all you've been doing is going on your own tangent and making assumptions about me. Get over it, I will always blame the players based on my experiences because people will be people, they always make excuses for their inabilities. I tell it like it is because you truly are so incompetent of what my point was from the beginning and has always been and you keep on putting words in my mouth that I clearly did not say.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Nice switching to personal insults

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And you calling me ignorant for doing that? If that isnt a personal insult I dont know what is.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

Look, stop with the stupid assumptions. I made a statement of my point of view on why I don't believe people when they blame it on lag and all you've been doing is going on your own tangent and making assumptions about me. Get over it, I will always blame the players based on my experiences because people will be people, they always make excuses for their inabilities. I tell it like it is because you truly are so incompetent of what my point was from the beginning and has always been.

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Your statements and assumptions about the player base are both bad for the community and the state of the game as a whole, I'm sorry you still fail to recognize that and once again choose to do your thing where you shift the blame to others by calling me incompetent, instead of recognizing the issues at hand.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Your statements and assumptions about the player base are both bad for the community and the state of the game as a whole, I'm sorry you still fail to recognize that and once again choose to do your thing where you shift the blame to others by calling me incompetent, instead of recognizing the issues at hand.

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Again, I tell it like it is.

You tell it like someone who thinks too lowly of others even if you try to wave it off by saying how you really stick to the end with a bad group and what not in some of your posts, that's not what your posts come off as, you always come off as arrogant and ignorant of the real issues. All I can do now is wish you luck when you reach the point where server responsiveness is even more important in content you clearly haven't gotten to yet, thus your opinion doesn't hold as much weight as you think it does, instead of being here on the forums all day defending bad game design.

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Originally Posted by Roris

You tell it like someone who thinks too lowly of others even if you try to wave it off by saying how you really stick to the end with a bad group and what not in some of your posts, that's not what your posts come off as, you always come off as arrogant and ignorant of the real issues. All I can do now is wish you luck when you reach the point where server responsiveness is even more important in content you clearly haven't gotten to yet, thus your opinion doesn't hold as much weight as you think it does, instead of being here on the forums all day defending bad game design.

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More assumptions. I guess assume away, no point arguing with incompetency.

I'm sorry, but I also have to agree that blaming lag is a scapegoat for lack of skill. I can absolutely say that lag exists, and my girlfriend and I had to deal with it ALL the time when dealing with Titan. We both got fed up and decided to upgrade our network environment, which meant buying a new/higher bandwidth router as well as a new modem, because the one Time Warner provided us on lease was balls. Since then, not a single issue.

Video games are a luxury item, MMOs and other games reliant on reliable internet connections even more so. SE is developing this game on the assumption that if you can afford a subscription-based MMO, you can afford to have non-"Fisher-Price" internet, to borrow a Mike Ross-ism. I'm not going to say SE's servers are perfect, but is it too much to ask to take responsibility for things on your ends?

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

But people blame on it EVERY TIME they can't dodge. :)

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Yes, people are frequently full of it. Not everyone is though. So treating everyone like a bad player who uses excuses means eventually you'll end up just being an a-hole to someone who can't possibly do anything about it.

For reference on how not to treat people terribly I reference the following wiki articles for your consumption.

Golden Rule

Silver Rule

http://i1.cpcache.com/product/644649...idth=460&qv=90

:P Gotta be the most overused excuse in the book by the terribads in this game. I know there are times where the lag is real, but most often it's just plain baddies.