Why do people hate on tanky healers?

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Originally Posted by Daenerys_Sedai

Contrast this with your idiot neighbor who owns a golf cart with a water cooler. He might bumble around a bit--maybe hit a tree or two--in that cart and maybe lose more water than you in one trip, but his margin for error is larger since he\\'s got that cooler and all. Also, he is likely moving faster than you.

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So technically ur saying healer #1 is better than healer #2
If healer #1 was given the same tools as healer #2, healer #2 would be vastly outperformed given the fact that healer #1 skills were sharpened thru the lack of tools while healer #2 was used to having everything in arms reach thus making them more dull.

So if we both owned a water cooler and a golf cart, who would most likely win?

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Originally Posted by Daenerys_Sedai

great story

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Exactly!

@OP, No one hates you when you can outheal your current content with tank acc and 30 VIT. But don't expect to be in any end game content like T5 (currently) where healing less would mean more stress on other people. Everyone have their role pretty much tested to the limit, they do not need an additional burden so that some WHM can be a tank-wanna-be.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

So if we both owned a water cooler and a golf cart, who would most likely win?

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Skill is long out of the question, you do not have the tool to take the discussion further into skill. You lost when you have no tool, just like you lost a race when everyone is using a car and you are on foot. Irregardless of skills, you lost before the race could even start. You lost at the starting point.

You know why do people hate (I don't, I myself play a bit different style too - I don't stack crit as SCH) tanky healers like you?

It's very likely not because of your performance, but due to you feeling entitled to convince everyone else that your style of playing the game is actually better and you can't listen to basic arguments and keep saying your stuff even if you have been proven wrong by many, many people.

You seem to enjoy yourself more trying to prove your arguments more then actually playing the game.

There are 17 pages already where people explained to death to you what is the reason. If you still feel the need to go on and on, there is something wrong with you.

:'D lots of things r wrong with me.
But then again all my bs will probably be viable in 2.2 XD
Time to make it or break it!

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

But then again all my bs will probably be viable in 2.2 XD

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Using i90 accessories melded with VIT for the extra HP might be a "thing" for Turn 9 while people are undergeared for the fight (which they probably will be at first). Taking the current coil as an example I know many healers (inclduing myself) who used i70 accessories with VIT when we were learning to beat Twintania, just because we didn't quite have the HP yet to survive fireballs. However I'll never use pure tank accessories, that's just gimping myself.

ill stick with stacking mnd so when I do get a lapse in healing i can throw CS on and have more DPS. As a whm in full heals i90 gear its just as easy to overheal yourself in those situations without the tank items equipped. Yes Ive had bad tanks turn titan (HM and EX) around and MB the entire party. an extra 1k health or a bit more isnt going to change the world.

Being a tanky healer essentially means: "I can't dodge so SS myself and I don't need to dodge everything" but what you don't seem to realise is that your Cure II is similar to other people's cure I there will be times you need to solo a fight, i.e. your partner gets landslided off the map and you cant raise him, in these cases you are really going to suffer. Don't Amake the fight harder for your tanks because you need more VIT to avoid damage you shouldn't be taking. all fights are designed so that if you meet the iLvl requirement you can survive all unavoidable damage, e.g. tumults. Finally if you want to tank Caduceus go to the MRD or GLA guild and be a tank.

P.S. only read half this thread so apologies for any repeated info.

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Originally Posted by Nathan061111

Beii.e. your partner gets landslided off the map and you cant raise him, in these cases you are really going to suffer.

P.S. only read half this thread so apologies for any repeated info.

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As soon as he gets landslided and takes a dirt napped then i think that is called getting carried. So if i had to solo heal which i could, means i am all the better healer.
Lol u should have seen when i let the other ilvl 80 something healer take a dirt nap for the whole fight. So hilarious, because the other healer to no avail is forced to be carried.
They get mad, i solo heal perfectly fine, party stay happy , other healer knows they suck and then proceed to swear and leave.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Lol u should have seen when i let the other ilvl 80 something healer take a dirt nap for the whole fight. So hilarious, because the other healer to no avail is forced to be carried.
They get mad, i solo heal perfectly fine, party stay happy , other healer knows they suck and then proceed to swear and leave.

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So you purposefully let another member stay dead the whole fight because you were on a power trip to prove yourself? Yeah I would think they would get mad even if you did beat it.

What was point of this topic when anytime posts why they dont like gimped healers wearing accessories from other classes and you go on offensive? This topic seems more and more troll like.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Sounded like...Hey i am too good to be true, everyone should warship me, i am different and i am the best.

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Good for you, your epeen just grew out of proportion. One question to you, solo heal what content tho, i am very curious.

TLDR;

if you're wearing accessories from other classes because you think the "hp will help" you... you're wrong. also slightly bad, imo.


there is nothing in this game that having over 5khp as a healer will save you from, no matter how stupid you are.

Just briefly skimmed over those 18 pages of epic nonsense, so please forgive me if I say or ask things, that have already been said before. Can someone of the "tanky healer" faction please explain the reason or advantage of bringing a tanky healer? I mean, what's the point for bringing a tanky healer instead if a more conventional healer, that can survive through any content while bringing tons of additional heal output?

with some melded stuff i ran with 4.9k for a long time and only lost 12mnd against higher ilvls (and gained some det/speed/crit)
thought it was a pretty fair trade to swap 12mnd for about +27vit/+24speed/+16det/+12crit or numbers similar to that

It's not the melded stuffs that the OP is trying to defend. He's using tank stuffs with parry, accuracy and possibly skill speed which are all useless for healers. Sacrificing mind for those stats you listed is ok since it helps in other ways. Sacrificing mind for the stats I listed is not.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

:'D lots of things r wrong with me.
But then again all my bs will probably be viable in 2.2 XD
Time to make it or break it!

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Umm, how can you think your "bs will probably be viable in 2.2" when you haven't even cleared the current content, obviously it isn't working now if it doesn't get your through Titan/Ifrit EX and turn 5.

Not to mention you won't even be able to do the new fights in 2.2 until you clear these.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

As soon as he gets landslided and takes a dirt napped then i think that is called getting carried. So if i had to solo heal which i could, means i am all the better healer.
Lol u should have seen when i let the other ilvl 80 something healer take a dirt nap for the whole fight. So hilarious, because the other healer to no avail is forced to be carried.
They get mad, i solo heal perfectly fine, party stay happy , other healer knows they suck and then proceed to swear and leave.

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Wow this really the cake. You should have just started with this elitist nonsense instead of beating around the bush for 18 pages. Lest you forget, pve in an mmo is supposed to be played cooperatively not competitively. I suggest you focus your efforts on pvp but I'll bet you will ragequit once you face better players or play a single player game so people aren't affected by your selfishness.

I'll also wager you are one of those healers that keep parsers on all the time and start swelling up with pride when you have higher healing numbers than other healers.

Let me make things real clear for you so you understand. What you are doing only works for content on farm. Try playing the hero for progression raids and see what happens. If you are in my static you will be booted instantly with that attitude of yours.

lol u guys :)
I may not be super omg vizble for 8 mans, but when it comes to 4 mans.
I have the ability to break/ manipulate the boss mechanics.
But i shall await the nerfs that will come in 2.2
You know, so its easier? :^)
Not for me but for everyone.
Cuz i will probably never make or be in a static.
I am a pugger / DFer for life!
Jeez lol there is no rush in clearing content fast, but if / when i do i would like to do it a different way and if no else disagrees with me in my party then imo its even better.
So y not u guys who think there's only 1 way to do things go stay in ur statics lol and go and complain about player lockouts.
While us odd minded ppl have fun at each other expenses ! XD

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Originally Posted by spaace

TLDR;

if you're wearing accessories from other classes because you think the "hp will help" you... you're wrong. also slightly bad, imo.


there is nothing in this game that having over 5khp as a healer will save you from, no matter how stupid you are.

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Maybe check back after 2.2 and change your comment lol
Cuz im pretty sure there will be an hp average raise. Cuz u know..... New content will hit harder than the previous :^D
So next time say " there is nothing in this game currently " so you don't create a miscommunication.
Also hmmm.... Having an extra 1700 hp+ helps me survive stuff when i have to sacrifice some hp to a plume / attack in order to heal a tank immediately so he won't die cuz the other healer is trying to dodge?
I often see this in ultima HM.

I guess people forget what it's like to be not in a static,how every fight usually ends up being different from the previous run.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

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You didn't finish end game content up-to-date.

Nuff said.

the problem is 5.5k hp ...just isn't enough. If I wanted a tanky healer I would want 6-7k. Because everything seems scripted to around 4k damage on the highest levels.

So if titan ex you can sit on a bomb with 4.3k it makes no difference if it's 5.5k, because you'll live either way, and if you're unlucky enough to get hit with both bombs, that's death no matter which.

2ndly...sorry but I think a tanky sch is bettter suited then a tankly whm. A whm is suppose to excel at big cures, and instant top offs, as oppose to a sch that is more about shields and lustres, with pets that can split their targets.

Healing power is much less of an issue for a sch because by nature the sch's healing powers are pretty darn bad anyway, and is there mostly to let the whm do their job without someone dying.

If that pre-cast cure2 isn't enough to top off the tank, not that great. If a cure3 isn't saving the PT, also not that great...

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

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Healing power is much less of an issue for a sch because by nature the sch's healing powers are pretty darn bad anyway, and is there mostly to let the whm do their job without someone dying.

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lol, srsly?

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Originally Posted by Amaret

lol, srsly?

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hush, let them think we are bad... :D

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

I guess people forget what it's like to be not in a static,how every fight usually ends up being different from the previous run.

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I don't have a static right now, and I cleared Twin this week.

I also haven't done ANY of the EX Primals with my old static; I've been PFing everything or joining PUGs made through Linkshells. I have even carried multiple people through Titan EX (as both DRG and WHM...a proper WHM) joining PFs.

And guess what? Same server...Healers are constantly in demand in the PF and a proper healer will never have issues jumping between groups until they find a good one. A bad healer will have issues, since they can't heal the content right and groups will constantly fail.


Also, your "tankiness" won't save you in Titan EX at all...stacked Plumes can kill even tanks who are bad at dodging. A WHM has no chance at all if they refuse to learn the mechanics (like you are doing).

Heh heh lol linkshells are the closest things to statics cuz u have a group of regulars but if you DF and PF purely without any connections to an LS then its a whole different level of difficulty.
Also you would have to be really bad to be hit by 2 bombs lol.
Really bad..
Hey Kuku go make a tanky Sch and post ur findings before posting ur info on this thread.
But i bet u won't / couldn't because u'll get mauled by the community like i have.
Also whm's heal more ( i.e burst healing )
Sooooooo a sch wouldn't survive a barrage of ifrit hm attacks cuz his flame breath chunks you down 70-80% of health for healers.
So i would like to see you heal through such easy content lol.
Even your shields won't save you.

Also probably the highest hp a whm can get via current content is about 5800-6000hp i think must have an i90 allagan ring of fending with full i90 tank accessories with full myth/ allagan left, and an allagan weapon, food too i guess.
Not until 2.2 happens we won't be seeing that 7k happen lol.

You keep bringing up the DF and PF argument. Which is a horrible argument by the way. DF and PF people are unpredictable. More than likely the DPS will eat a few avoidable damage and you will ahve to heal them. A real healer with proper gear and MND will be able to do this faster and better and thus make it easier for them to make up for the others mistakes.


Your VIT build does nothing for helping with others mistakes. It actually makes it harder for your to heal them up because of your gimpy heals. The only thing your VIT lets you do is be bad in that you can take some extra avoidable damage. There is no unavoidable damage that will hurt you enough to need your amount of VIT.

A real healer that can properly move is a better DF and PF healer because we can make up for others mistakes faster and better.

Also, you can edit your posts to get past the character limit. Unless you are trying to up your post count for some reason.

My thoughts as well Maku.. Extra health rarely covers anyone else's mistakes but your own.

Everything has been said, the guy won't change his mind and he won't change our minds as well. Let him do his stuff and feel special. Also, let this thread die finally, because at this point it honestly feels just like feeding a troll.

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Originally Posted by Amaret

lol, srsly?

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The difference between a near naked sch and a i50sch and full i90 sch is about 100-80hp phys and a non rouse pet of about 40hp. The difference of succor is less about 40hp.

Lustre is not effected as it's always the same.

the crit difference of aqu is more or less about 5% difference, which matters even less if you only swap accessories (only hero stuff have crit).

So really a sch would be loosing around 5% healing power or less if they are using lustres.

A sch even in cleric stance can still heal around 160 succor and 500 aqu/physick fyi. As oppose to around 300ish succor and 700ish phys/qu. Basically Sch suck at raw healing power no matter what.

They would drop very little just swaping accessories, beyond that. Since until i90 crafting comes, you really can't do anything with vit. Though I would hate to loose all that piety, since one of the main advantage of sch is playing the long ball in the healing game.

in Ifrit ex for example, other then the healers dying, only the nail phase 3 do you really need any healing power. You can just keep casting phys/cure1 through phase 1 and 2 and be perfectly fine.

You really don't have the option of doing anything as a sch for burst hits, without a whm's cure2 coming to save the day. Even combining embrace with phys/phys, if a tank is getting high in stacks, the content is really meant for 2 healers. They won't live very long with or without all an extra 100hp or so cure power.

There is just no way to pop a 3k heal as a sch, like a whm can.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

SNIP

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Ugh, I don't play SCH and I know how just wrong this whole thing is.

Physic = Cure. Nothing more, nothing less. So if a SCH has only a 100hp difference with Physic between i50 and i90...same goes for WHM and Cure.

Crits always add 50%. If Aldo crits, not only does it cure for 50% more, the shield is double that; I've had crit shields of over 3K on my WAR, without Convalescence up.

Succor =/= Medica. Yes, the heal is worse, but the heal + shield is about the same as Medica's heal. You use Succor before a hit, Medica after.

Lustrate is instant and heals for 25% hp. You can use 2 (maybe even all 3, but not 100% sure on that) in the time it takes to cast one Cure 2. And before a big hit, you use Adlo to reduce incoming damage.


EDIT: And i've hit my post-limit due to all the good stuff with the new video.

Anyway, I'm getting the feeling kukurrmei just doesn't know how to play SCH (maybe trying to play SCH like a WHM, which is just a fail), and/or has never played with a good SCH before.

I've heard many times of SCH solo-healing Titan EX (have yet to hear of WHM doing this. Not that it isn't possible, I just haven't heard of it yet), and, from what I see on my server, SCH are preferred to solo-heal Garuda EX. There is a reason for this...


EDIT 2: Overcure? What? All that is is a proc off Cure 2 to half the cost of Cure 3. You also completely forget all the healing the Fairy does (which can make all Physics like Cure 2), including Eos's one ability that is essentially Divine Seal...

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

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Did I really just read bunch of random bullshit regarding gear that would apply both to Sch and Whm only to find out that whm is able to pull 3k heal?

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Ugh, I don't play SCH and I know how just wrong this whole thing is.

Physic = Cure. Nothing more, nothing less. So if a SCH has only a 100hp difference with Physic between i50 and i90...same goes for WHM and Cure.

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Divine Seal, overcure, etc. Whms excel at the healing multipler, Sch don't.

You can mnd up to the max, and a sch's effectiveness will only drop slightly.

People like their epeen, but content is cleared just as easily. heck Bikini runs for fun have easily done that.

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Originally Posted by KiraVaela

Did I really just read bunch of random bullshit regarding gear that would apply both to Sch and Whm only to find out that whm is able to pull 3k heal?

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After garuda EM, everything is about burst heals. 3k heals is where it's at.

As a sch I phys 90% of the time, because nothing else matters but my mp pool and the critical phases. I can Aqu all day and still not make a difference without a whm riding in with those big heals, for the later stacks.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

After garuda EM, everything is about burst heals. 3k heals is where it's at.

As a sch I phys 90% of the time, because nothing else matters but my mp pool and the critical phases. I can Aqu all day and still not make a difference without a whm riding in with those big heals, for the later stacks.

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You are playing your SCH totally wrong mate, sorry. Since you seem to be set strongly in your opinions I will not argue with you anymore. Good luck! :)

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Originally Posted by KiraVaela

You are playing your SCH totally wrong mate, sorry. Since you seem to be set strongly in your opinions I will not argue with you anymore. Good luck! :)

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That's fine, because content haven't failed yet. Everything goes smoother when a whm stops acting like a sch and a sch stops acting like a whm.

A sch's job is to preshield and top people off, while a whm's job is to come riding in when things get bad.

A whm without cure potency is like a sch that tries to heal everything. It's just wasting each other's CDs.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

That's fine, because content haven't failed yet. Everything goes smoother when a whm stops acting like a sch and a sch stops acting like a whm.

A sch's job is to preshield and top people off, while a whm's job is to come riding in when things get bad.

A whm without cure potency is like a sch that tries to heal everything. It's just wasting each other's CDs.

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Alright, you have my "like" and we can love each other now. :)

1. This thread is about TANKY WHM / healer crap
2. 2 Sentence disqualified you about being taken serious:

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The difference between a near naked sch and a i50sch and full i90 sch is about 100-80hp phys and a non rouse pet of about 40hp. The difference of succor is less about 40hp.

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and

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As a sch I phys 90% of the time, because nothing else matters but my mp pool and the critical phases..

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3. You totally ignored the fairy and mitigation.

Who needs a tanky healer when you have a tanky tank?

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Originally Posted by Amaret

1. This thread is about TANKY WHM / healer crap
2. 2 Sentence disqualified you about being taken serious:



and



3. You totally ignored the fairy and mitigation.

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This guy makes sense, listen to him.