Final Fantasy XIV Auto-Attack Video

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Originally Posted by RexSkyborn

because when you swing and stand around looking at the mob for 3-4 seconds it just looks stupid. A quicker AA would be a lot more interesting to watch, something maybe that looks like an actual battle. There's no reason really to have it be as slow as it is except to make the game seem slower. They could make the AA faster and balance it by lowering damage and TP gain. In the end attacks would do as much damage, and gain as much TP in the same amount of time, it would just be more exciting to look at.

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yeah, i hope they will do that, its just the looks that make it bad imo, double the rate and it won't feel like the ffxi waiting.

Personally, I feel like it was only a sample of the system and a preview of animations and weapon skills to come. I think in a group of 4-8 battle will seem far faster that what it did in the video. Between all the hits we will be casting our buffs and getting ready, or watching for a EVADE or a PARRY so that we can use a skill dependent on those. Basically, we have to get our hands on the AA first to make a clear decision.

I will love to see diferents delay on weapons, haste gear/spells/abilities, and able to change gear during active mode. After that if the Auto attack is slow i don't care, it's fine what i saw on the video.

it's gonna be rough for me transitioning, just because i've gotten so use to the stamina gauge. but i think i'll manage.

I'm just glad they got rid of those silly 3-hit attack animations for single attacks. It was unnecessary and just gave the illusion of a fast paced battle system.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

I'm just glad they got rid of those silly 3-hit attack animations for single attacks. It was unnecessary and just gave the illusion of a fast paced battle system.

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I don't think they're changing the critical hit animation. You just didn't see any in the video.

There's nothing wrong with 3 rapid hits animation being a crit. After all a flashy slap is just as redundant.

And I'm not sure how much more fast pace you want. There is already little lag time between actions as it is.

Unless you speed up the animations themselves, animation delay is going to be the same no matter how much you speed up AA.

FF14 like FF11 animations are slow by nature and by design.

I really hope the fighting animations in this video are finally.
I never understood why a gladiator attacks twice with everytime the same (boring) animation and the enemy only took one damage. It looks very well in the vid. I dont understand why everybody's just telling how terrible this game is. Why the f. do u play the game if you dont like? Most of you expected a game like WoW, but this is FF and I really, really hope, it will always be something very different to WoW.
I liked this game from the begin and i'm anyway happy with the most of the changes.
I think you ppl are waiting for things that never come if you hit down every change they make without giving them a chance.

A quick note regarding the comments about the slow auto-attack speed, dullness, etc. presented in the video, etc. In line with the comments made in Matsui's Battle Reform Blueprint, this is only the first wave of the auto-attack implementation with the second wave including the motion/animation updates and adjustments.

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For the first stage, we will implement the core mechanics of auto-attack and perform provisional adjustments to the accompanying damage algorithm. The next stage, planned to take place after the aforementioned crowd control and action/skill revisions, will involve a fine-tuning of the auto-attack algorithm. Other algorithms will also undergo revisions, which will be explained further below. In so doing, we hope to further draw out the unique flavor of each weapon. At this same time, we will also carry out motion and other graphical revisions to accommodate auto-attack.

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Thanks for the reminder Bayohne!

THANK YOU!

/closethread

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

A quick note regarding the comments about the slow auto-attack speed presented in the video, etc. In line with the comments made in Matsui's Battle Reform Blueprint, this is only the first wave of the auto-attack implementation with the second wave including the motion/animation updates and adjustments.

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There's a small issue I'm slightly confused with. Maybe it is intentional, but it's hard to understand what the scope of motion adjustments is. Some posts make it sound like the adjustments will mostly change how auto-attack animations function, others make it sound like all close-range skills and even spells are getting the same treatment.

Not sure just how much you're willing to say, but at least knowing whether the largest adjustments will rotate around auto-attack or if there's something larger-scale in store would help. I see that at least active/passive mode is receiving motion-adjustment with 1.18.

I wouldn't mind the wait on everything else, but the combat aesthetics play quite a large role in my current gripes with the combat system.

It's funny to see a character can pull out his sward while running but they didn't add the animation yet, so he just slide on the ground

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Originally Posted by Evangela

It's funny to see a character can pull out his sward while running but they didn't add the animation yet, so he just slide on the ground

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indeed is funny, here's hoping it will change.. :P

Can we get an idea of what auto-attack might look like with stuff like double/tripple attack, an OAx weapon, or most importantly, some haste gear?

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Can we get an idea of what auto-attack might look like with stuff like double/tripple attack, an OAx weapon, or most importantly, some haste gear?

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Based on what they've said so far, I doubt they've got any concrete details ready yet. They're still working on the basics, with extra stuff like that coming later.

It just seems dumb to show off the system with 0% haste when that won't be relevant once good gear rolls out finally.

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

It just seems dumb to show off the system with 0% haste when that won't be relevant once good gear rolls out finally.

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We can't have it both ways.

We can't ask the Development Team to show us a video of what they are working on, and then tell them they shouldn't have shown us something that is incomplete.

Well, I guess we could ... but it would make us look literally like morons (i.e. an adult with the mental capacity of an 8 year old).

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

It just seems dumb to show off the system with 0% haste when that won't be relevant once good gear rolls out finally.

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showing it with haste or special gears would defeat the purpose of showing us AA. People with special gears are special, what you want to see now is what AA actually is at its base, not what it may become 2 years from now, that would be false advertising

i cant believe its taking several patches/updates and months of work.... to properly implement Auto Attack....

its not just auto attack they are adding.....

Auto-attack as a system itself isn't that hard to implement but then with the addition of auto-attack you have to alter and check:

1) monster behavior
2) monster stats (HP, MP, core states, sub stats)
3) monster abilities
4) monster spells
5) monster dps
6) player abilities
7) player stats (HP, MP, core stats, sub stats)
8) player spells
9) player dps
10) group play functioning with auto-attack
11) solo play functioning with auto-attack

I'm sure there are more testing/re calibrating they do as I am not physically there in their studios so I cannot give a complete list.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

It's funny to see a character can pull out his sward while running but they didn't add the animation yet, so he just slide on the ground

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just taking out the stop is a major plus. they can work on different animations for different weapons/races later.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

Auto-attack as a system itself isn't that hard to implement but then with the addition of auto-attack you have to alter and check:

1) monster behavior
2) monster stats (HP, MP, core states, sub stats)
3) monster abilities
4) monster spells
5) monster dps
6) player abilities
7) player stats (HP, MP, core stats, sub stats)
8) player spells
9) player dps
10) group play functioning with auto-attack
11) solo play functioning with auto-attack

I'm sure there are more testing/re calibrating they do as I am not physically there in their studios so I cannot give a complete list.

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Lets not forget..

12) item stat distribution and function (Food Effect, Potions. etc.)
13) Weapon Delay and stat distribution. DPS
14) Armor stat distribution.
15) Rank up stat distribution for each class (+ Job system?)
16) Class diversifictaion + balancing within the new battle system
17) New weapon Skills, new animations, etc.

This is what is taking them so long, and i am patient about the delay being two more weeks longer than they planned. They are showing that they have learned from past mistakes. YoshiP is making all the right decisions.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

Auto-attack as a system itself isn't that hard to implement but then with the addition of auto-attack you have to alter and check:

1) monster behavior
2) monster stats (HP, MP, core states, sub stats)
3) monster abilities
4) monster spells
5) monster dps
6) player abilities
7) player stats (HP, MP, core stats, sub stats)
8) player spells
9) player dps
10) group play functioning with auto-attack
11) solo play functioning with auto-attack

I'm sure there are more testing/re calibrating they do as I am not physically there in their studios so I cannot give a complete list.

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Non of that has anything to do with auto attack as its no different than me spamming 1111111

mob gets angry when you hit them, thats their behavior, hp/mp not included, abilities is not auto atk, spells is not auto atk, dps well depends if they add any haste or weapon changes but that is coming after as said. Group and solo dont matter because its just a case of everyone hit the mob till it hits death. Again no different from me hitting 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 its just doing it for me... like a bot.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Lets not forget..

12) item stat distribution and function (Food Effect, Potions. etc.)
13) Weapon Delay and stat distribution. DPS
14) Armor stat distribution.
15) Rank up stat distribution for each class (+ Job system?)
16) Class diversifictaion + balancing within the new battle system
17) New weapon Skills, new animations, etc.

This is what is taking them so long, and i am patient about the delay being two more weeks longer than they planned. They are showing that they have learned from past mistakes. YoshiP is making all the right decisions.

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Whats does stat have to do with anything? if I have 5STR or 500 STR what difference would it make if I AM press 1 1 1 or the machine is pressing 1 1 1? No difference bcause the outcomes are the same.

I like the feature because spamming 1 1 1 was annoying, but I could just do it identical to auto attack.

What I do find pathetic is how Auto Attack is becoming this big achievement in the game, like its a mile stole, a stepping stole, pacman has bloody auto attack its not something revolutionary.

/rant XD

Um..Viion have you ever made something that is complex? I mean you get RPG Maker VX for 50 bucks go into the coding area, delete a line of code, leave it alone for a couple weeks then come back and try to find the mistake and fix it. When you fix it you will probably find there is still an error, you have to go and search through thousands of lines of code because when there is an error it just doesn't work, its not like Windows is going to pinpoint the problem for you (because the core coding that makes everything work is messed up)

I hope that makes sense, maybe it doesnt though, but that is why they HAVE to run all the checks that were listed and YES ALL THAT IS PART OF MAKING AUTO ATTACK. Its not just slapping in a system and calling it a day.

Well system assisted actions like AA is far easier to manage for developers then wild wild west button pressing.

You don't have to go balancing hunting every skill formula if you know off hand that AA is the tiller on a boat. If I know you can get 500TP in 5 swings so to say, and your over balanced 1K WS is way too unfair, I would say just mathematically reduce damage a little and raise TP cost to 1.2k.

On the old system, you would have to check on tweak stamina, damage versus light attacks, heavy attacks, TP gauge, damage gauage, animation, etc, etc, etc.

I mean how would a developer handle the BEAST glad cadence super buff attack in current system and AA system. all AA system has to do is tweak some numbers. In current system, you have to consider 20x more situations where a player runs rampant.

AA is more elegant in the long run, unless you have an already balanced out system. We didn't. Fighting the 8 headed monster is not productive if you're getting the same results.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

Um..Viion have you ever made something that is complex? I mean you get RPG Maker VX for 50 bucks go into the coding area, delete a line of code, leave it alone for a couple weeks then come back and try to find the mistake and fix it. When you fix it you will probably find there is still an error, you have to go and search through thousands of lines of code because when there is an error it just doesn't work, its not like Windows is going to pinpoint the problem for you (because the core coding that makes everything work is messed up)

I hope that makes sense, maybe it doesnt though, but that is why they HAVE to run all the checks that were listed and YES ALL THAT IS PART OF MAKING AUTO ATTACK. Its not just slapping in a system and calling it a day.

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I built XIVPads, which is quite complex. what you said makes no sense to the purpose of Auto Attack. I do a lot of desktop programming as well. Lets not turn this into a programming argument because from your reply its already clear you dont know much in the area to think you have to hunt through thousands of lines of code all the time, it just doesn't work like that.

clearly you've never seen the coding for an MMO, and there I rest my case.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

clearly you've never seen the coding for an MMO, and there I rest my case.

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you win captain!

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Well system assisted actions like AA is far easier to manage for developers then wild wild west button pressing.

You don't have to go balancing hunting every skill formula if you know off hand that AA is the tiller on a boat. If I know you can get 500TP in 5 swings so to say, and your over balanced 1K WS is way too unfair, I would say just mathematically reduce damage a little and raise TP cost to 1.2k.

On the old system, you would have to check on tweak stamina, damage versus light attacks, heavy attacks, TP gauge, damage gauage, animation, etc, etc, etc.

I mean how would a developer handle the BEAST glad cadence super buff attack in current system and AA system. all AA system has to do is tweak some numbers. In current system, you have to consider 20x more situations where a player runs rampant.

AA is more elegant in the long run, unless you have an already balanced out system. We didn't. Fighting the 8 headed monster is not productive if you're getting the same results.

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Well, i see what you are saying, however, when you mention "all they have to do is this," there are other things they need to change in order for this to work properly. Balancing mainly consists of changing a bunch of numbers, but they have to change accordingly to balance one skill with many aspects, such as stats, other weapon skills, etc. Its not really a simple matter. It takes developers years to create a working battle system. I'm actually impressed with what they have done so far, and what there plans are in finishing the battle system. However, i haven't tried it for myself yet, so i can't really say whether the system is good or not, and what they need to change.

This is why SE needs a test server. :P

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Well, i see what you are saying, however, when you mention "all they have to do is this," there are other things they need to change in order for this to work properly. Balancing mainly consists of changing a bunch of numbers, but they have to change accordingly to balance one skill with many aspects, such as stats, other weapon skills, etc. Its not really a simple matter. It takes developers years to create a working battle system. I'm actually impressed with what they have done so far, and what there plans are in finishing the battle system. However, i haven't tried it for myself yet, so i can't really say whether the system is good or not, and what they need to change.

This is why SE needs a test server. :P

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Reason their first sign was consider stuff like removing stamina bars and physical levels and AA. Combining and streamlining erratic variables may seem to "boring"-ize games, but it does make developer life easier.

I'm not surprise they're amputating systems in favor of more traditional means. I think they probably know full well themselves how slow they're moving.

Basically the original battle system with SP gain on hit and all, was designed by a total novice when it comes to functionality. Don't make candy bridges and expect it to work very long.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Reason their first sign was consider stuff like removing stamina bars and physical levels and AA. Combining and streamlining erratic variables may seem to "boring"-ize games, but it does make developer life easier.

I'm not surprise they're amputating systems in favor of more traditional means. I think they probably know full well themselves how slow they're moving.

Basically the original battle system with SP gain on hit and all, was designed by a total novice when it comes to functionality. Don't make candy bridges and expect it to work very long.

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Depends on what kinda candy the bridge is made of. :P <3

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Well, i see what you are saying, however, when you mention "all they have to do is this," there are other things they need to change in order for this to work properly. Balancing mainly consists of changing a bunch of numbers, but they have to change accordingly to balance one skill with many aspects, such as stats, other weapon skills, etc. Its not really a simple matter. It takes developers years to create a working battle system. I'm actually impressed with what they have done so far, and what there plans are in finishing the battle system. However, i haven't tried it for myself yet, so i can't really say whether the system is good or not, and what they need to change.

This is why SE needs a test server. :P

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Considering they've got 10 years of experience, tweaking and fixing this kind of issue in their previous mmo only to have to redo it all again because its completely messed up, im not impressed, they're just basically going back to where they were before, which is what they should of done in the first place. its the classic "Aint broke dont fix it" and this clearly wasnt broke (in XI) and some reason they wanted to fix it. And now they're going back.

But i 100% agree on the test server. it did TERA wonders and they managed to fix a lot and tweak the new instances

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Originally Posted by viion

Considering they've got 10 years of experience, tweaking and fixing this kind of issue in their previous mmo only to have to redo it all again because its completely messed up, im not impressed, they're just basically going back to where they were before, which is what they should of done in the first place. its the classic "Aint broke dont fix it" and this clearly wasnt broke (in XI) and some reason they wanted to fix it. And now they're going back.

But i 100% agree on the test server. it did TERA wonders and they managed to fix a lot and tweak the new instances

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Well it was their choice to go back, but the player's demands to do that which influenced the devs. So all we can blame is ourselves.

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Originally Posted by viion

Considering they've got 10 years of experience, tweaking and fixing this kind of issue in their previous mmo only to have to redo it all again because its completely messed up, im not impressed, they're just basically going back to where they were before, which is what they should of done in the first place. its the classic "Aint broke dont fix it" and this clearly wasnt broke (in XI) and some reason they wanted to fix it. And now they're going back.

But i 100% agree on the test server. it did TERA wonders and they managed to fix a lot and tweak the new instances

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I love FF XI combat and i agree that they should have just implemented the same battle system from the beginning. However i also understand that we can not just keep reproducing things and new ideas need to be formed. The original FF XIV battle system was an attempt to create something new, a fail, but definitely a attempt at "revolutionizing" MMO battle systems.

FF XIV tried something new and failed miserably, i don't blame the developers for trying they just didn't listen to anything we said in beta... I feel that there is a lot more shady dealings going on in SE corporate structure rather than the developers.

This game was way to hushed at release and way to rushed for any developer to be proud. FF XIV is a victim of what many games are suffering from these days, greedy corporate pressure on the developers to meet unrealistic deadlines to fatten the share holders pockets.

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Originally Posted by Bled

I love FF XI combat and i agree that they should have just implemented the same battle system from the beginning. However i also understand that we can not just keep reproducing things and new ideas need to be formed. The original FF XIV battle system was an attempt to create something new, a fail, but definitely a attempt at "revolutionizing" MMO battle systems.

FF XIV tried something new and failed miserably, i don't knock them for trying they just didn't listen to anything we said in beta...

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See that is how i think about it. But now they need to find a way to revolutionize AA. lol That would be hard to do but there are ways to do it. Skillchains - Combos - Etc. can be utilized differently to add to this system, they don't have to be like FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

See that is how i think about it. But now they need to find a way to revolutionize AA. lol That would be hard to do but there are ways to do it. Skillchains - Combos - Etc. can be utilized differently to add to this system, they don't have to be like FFXI.

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Agreed SE has all ready admitted there failure (kinda lol) and are attempting to rectify the original problems. Because SE is even attempting to fix this game fills me with hope that they may be able to get things moving, and when the games foundation is finally set im ready for FF XIV to revolutionize MMO's all it wants.

All of this is wishful thinking and i will remain checking in on FF XIV.

You build a candy bridge out of like old people hard candy and it might last forever, because fat americans (hey i'm an american too just now fat), won't eat it by the dozens. Make a it a barely edible fast food bridge and americans would be on that crap like flies on sugary crap. (it would actually be exactly like that).

FFXIV needs to just make their bridge with normal building materials, forget hardcore, forget casual, forget "sandbox" , forget "amusement park" or w/e genre people throw around, and just make some effing content. No one actually knows if Yoshi-P can do anything because the whole dev team releases the safest stuff everytime hoping not to get flamed and the opposite happens. MMOs are EFFING built on safe. Just create something, and implement without even asking us. I can't even seriously begin to express how much I can't judge anyone who makes this game because I havent seen anything they've done yet that wasn't played safe.

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Originally Posted by Bled

I love FF XI combat and i agree that they should have just implemented the same battle system from the beginning. However i also understand that we can not just keep reproducing things and new ideas need to be formed. The original FF XIV battle system was an attempt to create something new, a fail, but definitely a attempt at "revolutionizing" MMO battle systems.

FF XIV tried something new and failed miserably, i don't blame the developers for trying they just didn't listen to anything we said in beta... I feel that there is a lot more shady dealings going on in SE corporate structure rather than the developers.

This game was way to hushed at release and way to rushed for any developer to be proud. FF XIV is a victim of what many games are suffering from these days, greedy corporate pressure on the developers to meet unrealistic deadlines to fatten the share holders pockets.

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I guess it can hurt to try?

Oh wait... over half a million lost members and $148million loss XD (though not all related to XIV).

I guess it does hurt to try.

Its not even about being rushed too, they started back in 05, and must of worked on it for at least 3 years and even had the full support of most of SE's employees due to the Crystal Tools engine.

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Originally Posted by viion

I guess it can hurt to try?

Oh wait... over half a million lost members and $148million loss XD (though not all related to XIV).

I guess it does hurt to try.

Its not even about being rushed too, they started back in 05, and must of worked on it for at least 3 years and even had the full support of most of SE's employees due to the Crystal Tools engine.

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If it hurt to try, then we wouldn't have any new games. We would have never had online games if it hurt to try anything. That kind of logic just doesn't make sense. Developing a game itself is a risk in its own if you have to invest in it.

CoD is taking a crap because they are scared to try anything new..