Further proof that the market wards are a festival of failure.

Can't we at least have the wards look like the alley, path, etc that we are running into? How come in Ul'dah I enter an alley and the magically POOF I'm in some strange place, doesn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by Draco

Bayohne, I just dont understand. It is pretty crystal clear, that everyone ( the majority of players ) would prefer an auction house system for selling items

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No we dont, We want a time saving and convenient way to sell our goods. Which you do not need an auction house for. The only reason you would need an Auction house is for Blind or Timed Bidding. Blind Bidding is easily manipulated by RMT's and breaks the economy easily, while Timed bidding is normally ignored as a feature in any "Auction House" Except by people who do not know the high side value of an item and want the most bang for their item.

As proofed by various threads. No one wants the bidding apparatus, they just want the time and Convenience and they can be implemented into the market wards.

And do you speak for the majority of players? Because as I recall on opening day of the game and dozens of game reviews was the lack of AH was a serious issue for the economy. And they said AH in particular. When the majority of people are saying they want an AH that's exactly what they want. I don't see how that's up to interpretation.

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Originally Posted by Anathiel

And do you speak for the majority of players? Because as I recall on opening day of the game and dozens of game reviews was the lack of AH was a serious issue for the economy. And they said AH in particular. When the majority of people are saying they want an AH that's exactly what they want. I don't see how that's up to interpretation.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Auction-House

56 Respondants for Time and Convenience/non auctionhouse unique features vs 4 for actual bidding/unique auction house features.

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And do you speak for the majority of players? Because as I recall on opening day of the game and dozens of game reviews was the lack of AH was a serious issue for the economy. And they said AH in particular. When the majority of people are saying they want an AH that's exactly what they want. I don't see how that's up to interpretation.

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The main failing of the game was it was just horrible to play, with further refinments the MW system would work just fine. The lack of an auction house is not why the game sucks and nobody plays it.

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Originally Posted by Anathiel

And do you speak for the majority of players? Because as I recall on opening day of the game and dozens of game reviews was the lack of AH was a serious issue for the economy. And they said AH in particular. When the majority of people are saying they want an AH that's exactly what they want. I don't see how that's up to interpretation.

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Actually, from various polls, the most votes from players were to make the Market Wards work better. Followed by replacing the Market Wards with an AH.

We can conduct the poll again, but the results will likely be the same as the previous polls.

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Originally Posted by Anathiel

And do you speak for the majority of players? Because as I recall on opening day of the game and dozens of game reviews was the lack of AH was a serious issue for the economy. And they said AH in particular. When the majority of people are saying they want an AH that's exactly what they want. I don't see how that's up to interpretation.

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The problem being that many people seem to think "instant buying from an interface with some sort of delivery" is synonymous with "AH". An *auction* house would be a place with. . . y'know, *auctions*. I can't speak for XI's AH system, having never played it, but I know in WoW most items on their AH were bought out, not bid on. Only time most people would bid is if they really wanted something but couldn't afford/weren't willing to pay the buyout cost. As much as everyone loves to bash WoW around here, I'm sure a similar system would result in the same behavior here.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

The problem being that many people seem to think "instant buying from an interface with some sort of delivery" is synonymous with "AH". An *auction* house would be a place with. . . y'know, *auctions*. I can't speak for XI's AH system, having never played it, but I know in WoW most items on their AH were bought out, not bid on. Only time most people would bid is if they really wanted something but couldn't afford/weren't willing to pay the buyout cost. As much as everyone loves to bash WoW around here, I'm sure a similar system would result in the same behavior here.

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Which would make such a system useless.

I'd rather see the Amazon model implemented which is essentially what the MW's are, but it just needs more tweak and fixes to get it right.

Why not have a single npc retainer in each section that the players gives things to, to sell? add price history like in XI and I think that would clear up the congestion, and make it much easier to find what people are looking for.

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Originally Posted by Roughgalaxy

Why not have a single npc retainer in each section that the players gives things to, to sell? add price history like in XI and I think that would clear up the congestion, and make it much easier to find what people are looking for.

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Price histories can be manipulated.

The current market wards can be fixed - they simply suffer from the same lack of polish that we see in the rest of the game. What people want is speed and convenience, and it's much easier to streamline the current system for speed and convenience than it is to implement an entirely new system.

People don't understand that there is so much more that can be done with the current system than a traditional house. Ever notice that our retainers have levels? The system seems to be set up in such a way as to allow for further expansion. Imagine being able to sort your retainers wares into different categories for easy browsing. The current unused retainer levels could be utilized to modify transaction fees, or even make it so that your company members pay a reduced rate. Imagine being able to set your retainer up with the necessary materials and then place him or her in the Mender's Ward to offer repairs using your own DoH skillset.

Imagine that once your retainer reaches a certain level, your stalls are upgraded to full storefronts that can hold both retainers and offer better customization and name recognition services (I would love to be able to put up a giant banner in front of my stall to let everyone know that the Ardarose Bakery is open for business).

Could you do most of the above with a traditional auction house? Sure. But the market ward lends itself to these types of expansions more naturally, and it's far more likely to happen if they don't have to spend the time to create a new auction house system from scratch.

Like pretty much everything in this game, the market wards DO have potential. I'd much rather see them try their hand with something uniue and potentially more engaging than the systems we already know and are most familiar with.

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Originally Posted by Rau

Joke post?

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Nope. Not sure what part you were thinking of.

I agree with the sentiment of the OP, but not quite the wording. Festival implies it might actually be fun... =/

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Which would make such a system useless.

I'd rather see the Amazon model implemented which is essentially what the MW's are, but it just needs more tweak and fixes to get it right.

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Agreed, pretty much. Only thing is, I still think the most. . . efficient? cost effective? way to fix it is basically to let us buy from the (slightly modified) search window.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

In response to Dreamer's excellent post.

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From the interviews on youtube and my own observations, it's been clear to me that the devs are trying to create a semi-realistic and completely immersive fantasy world. I'm not saying they have been completely successful at it so far, but some people really are too stuck on mmo fastfood to see it. There are some people who really are here to play the DoH and DoL, and, especially if what Dreamer suspects is true, the market wards are especially for them. Those of a battle nature have an expansive world (under construction) to go fight. Those of a crafting nature will have a market to use their imagination with. Is it fair to demand an AH just because it's inconvenient to you?

That being said, I understand the point everyone has about overcrowding, and I do think it's a problem. But I'm more inclined to think that they have further designs in mind to deal with that, than that that they just didn't consider it altogether.

Se is embarking into unknown territory. There is bound to be some bumps, and even major upsets along the way. But I'm along for the ride. Watching this new mmo unfold will be an adventure in itself.

WOW...
Many points....

1. We really don't know what the majority wants? I see just as many people who like the market ward as those who want an AH... Polls kind of help gauge the will of the people... but then the people who are dissatisfied are far more likely to participate... So in the end.... please stop using random assumption based statements like "the majority of players" and "I speak for most people" because you dont... none of us do... I speak for me... you speak for you....

2. People talk about the market ward being inconvenient... but this is a very short sighted stance... the bigger and more important issue is if a large amount of players were to pour into the game.... Will the market wards in their current state, be able to even remotely accommodate the sudden influx of retainers? Would this influx be offset by the amount of retainers that go away when the game is no longer free to play?
500,000 players with 1 character (2 retainers) each
or under 50,000 players but with max alts and retainers (16 retainers)

3. HQ items... should be included in the search and I have to believe thats coming....

4. Mail/Delivery has been mentioned, its been on the future plans table.... They know we need it... So really not a factor unless you're impatient and you want it NOW as opposed to square working on the content that makes you even want to buy stuff.... But I know none of you would even dare working against the community like that....

5. Fine, let's talk about convenience then.... Takes a little extra to go to the actual retainer.... but with the server optimization coming, it should get faster, although, the extra time is no deal breaker, and the trade off is a unique selling environment. I do enjoy the retainer names and seeing retainers from my LS mates.... I like the personal feel of buying from a character and not a window. I wouldn't be upset or rage quit if it went menu based... but the system now has its charms

6. (and most importantly) the MW's could use a physical redesign.... I know what they were going for.... smaller wards so you can quickly find the right retainer.... I don't know what the solution would be... but it seems they could stand to be physically restructured so they don't look so fuster clucky and chaotic... The right design could reduce lag, increase ward stability and Its a great way to stay in shape

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Auction-House

56 Respondants for Time and Convenience/non auctionhouse unique features vs 4 for actual bidding/unique auction house features.

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OMG 54 Responses..... wow.... i think i have to rethink my opinion... Ok, nope, my opinion still stands firm. It is pretty funny how you left out the hundreds of thousands of people that purchased the game and stopped playing, in large amount due to all the simple and consistant systems that are not represented in this MMO. Your post is about what YOU want. What YOU feel.... not what is best to bring back hundreds of thousands of people back to this game. And no, I am not saying that putting in an AH and Mog House will bring them back. However, it is a huge start to implementing systems that are just missing from this game. You add all those systems MH, AH, Chocobo, Airship, MAILBOX, along with current battle/animation changes, throw in some huge world map changes, finally release the company and player run company system, and bam... you have yourself a new MMO.

My one and only problem with the Market Wards is the people who just post there retainers in a Ward and never take them out.. Half the wards are filled with empty retainers that only have 1 useless item on them. To that point I think SE need only implement a system that kicks retainers out of the Wards similar to how items were removed from the AH in XI after 7 days.

As far as mailing items to a player is concerned I feel that would take as long or longer than just entering the ward and buying the items so the argument doesn't sway me.

I agree that we need an HQ search and I am starting to favor connecting the Three City's wards simply because no one actually uses Gridania and LL on my server..

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Originally Posted by Draco

OMG 54 Responses..... wow.... i think i have to rethink my opinion... Ok, nope, my opinion still stands firm. It is pretty funny how you left out the hundreds of thousands of people that purchased the game and stopped playing, in large amount due to all the simple and consistant systems that are not represented in this MMO. Your post is about what YOU want. What YOU feel.... not what is best to bring back hundreds of thousands of people back to this game. And no, I am not saying that putting in an AH and Mog House will bring them back. However, it is a huge start to implementing systems that are just missing from this game. You add all those systems MH, AH, Chocobo, Airship, MAILBOX, along with current battle/animation changes, throw in some huge world map changes, finally release the company and player run company system, and bam... you have yourself a new MMO.

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I'm fairly certain most people left the game because of the UI and the lack of anything to do, but sure you can go on believing that people actually quit MMOs for lack of an Auction House.. That's realistic..

Everything can be manipulated. You need to think beyond manipulation and the RMT scare. You do the best with what you are given. FFXI had a great, and still has a great AH system. Yes, you can manipulate it, but do the ends justify the means?

Actually, I said in large amount due to the simple and consistant systems of all other MMO's that are not represented in this one. You can go ahead and cherry pick a meaning from that if you like tho ;)

FFXI had a horrible AH system.

1. It was not an Auction House as Auction implies that you bet against people and have a starting price not a blind guess.
2. A single person could no only manipulate but outright dominate any single item at anytime
3. Price inflation and deflation was so absurd that any given item could jump from 1000 gil to 50000 gil and back in less than a week.

Auction houses have no viable features that are not already in or able to be implemented into the current system. The only remotely decent argument people can make is having things mailed to them which doesn't actually help them in any way.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

FFXI had a horrible AH system.

1. It was not an Auction House as Auction implies that you bet against people and have a starting price not a blind guess.
2. A single person could no only manipulate but outright dominate any single item at anytime
3. Price inflation and deflation was so absurd that any given item could jump from 1000 gil to 50000 gil and back in less than a week.

Auction houses have no viable features that are not already in or able to be implemented into the current system. The only remotely decent argument people can make is having things mailed to them which doesn't actually help them in any way.

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I personally dont care how they do it. As long as I can sell as many items, buy as many items, and search as many items, all by not having to run back and forth over and over to do so. If they can implement that into the retainer system and have all items you purchase automatically go into your inventory that is fine too. But the implementation of a mailbox would be very helpful not only for this system, but for making trade within servers much easier.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

As far as mailing items to a player is concerned I feel that would take as long or longer than just entering the ward and buying the items so the argument doesn't sway me.

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I agree. Mailing items, at least on the topic of MW, is a waste of effort when the items can be placed either right in your inventory or in your loot list. Mailboxes have their place, but I have not heard a persuasive argument for using them in conjunction with the MW while other, better game mechanics exist.

I agree with you on the mailbox Draco.. I can even believe they released this game without one.. Blah blah blah RMT, dont care. If i can't mail things to myself or my friend i'm not happy.

i dont know why they dont implement an AH along with the wards. Then the players can use the one they prefer. IM sure the wards would become extinct in no time and even the players who defend would forget it ever existed.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

i dont know why they dont implement an AH along with the wards. Then the players can use the one they prefer. IM sure the wards would become extinct in no time and even the players who defend would forget it ever existed.

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Go check out rollenberry field in FFXI..

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Go check out rollenberry field in FFXI..

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Items that sell in Rollenberry Fields and the like, are all items that are unsellable in the AH or are too expensive to put up. Rollenberry Fields is also used as an extension to the AH since SE has this crazy addiction to putting limits on everything they do. Rollenberry Fields is not used as a substitution for the AH, which is how I am taking the meaning of your post.

My meaing is to add an AH and leave the wards alone. Let people choose where they want to list there items. If the wards have enough supporters to keep it alive so it can coexist then so be it. But i dont know why SE feels they have to make a choice between the 2 when they can have them both.

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Originally Posted by Draco

Items that sell in Rollenberry Fields and the like, are all items that are unsellable in the AH or are too expensive to put up. Rollenberry Fields is also used as an extension to the AH since SE has this crazy addiction to putting limits on everything they do. Rollenberry Fields is not used as a substitution for the AH, which is how I am taking the meaning of your post.

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I rather have 1 retainer + personal storage area (or Guild/LS Bank) & AH, rather than more retainers.
Especially if we gonna have to pay for additional retainers wich now is completely retarded. (or will be)

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Quoted for supreme truthiness

+1

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No Ms. wynn just NO.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

In Patch 1.18, we will be increasing the max number of retainers that can be set up within each area. However, by simply increasing the number of allowable retainers, the fact remains that it could again reach the capacity limit. Therefore, as a precursor to that we will be planning some type of system of checks and balances in order to reset the retainers that have been setup.

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I actually dont mind the market wards, but they could still use some tweaking obviously. As far as kicking out retainers to make room for new ones I have always thought there should be a timer in place. I would have it so that once your retainer is placed you have 120 earth hours(5 full days) to sell an item or get kicked out. if you sell an item your timer resets.

So the retainers that are sucessfully selling items get to keep their spot in the wards while those offering less desirable items or outrageous prices get kicked out.

The Market Wards are an excellent idea as a supplement to an Auction House.

Having them act in lieu of one was, and is, just silly. Lack of an Auction House was one of the things complained about during development, and a major reason why 90% of the people I know who played the game, promptly quit.

It's amazing how the wards are so unstable now and the player base is so limited. I wonder how they plan to fix them for the estimated increase in players once SE has a finished product.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

It's amazing how the wards are so unstable now and the player base is so limited. I wonder how they plan to fix them for the estimated increase in players once SE has a finished product.

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If SE had any foresight, this game wouldn't have a metacritic score in the 40's.

I like the market wards :D it's fun and has a different feeling than just putting up items on an AH

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Originally Posted by Eldaena

I'm surprised how bad some people think the market wards are. =p I enjoy them. I guess those who dislike the wards are the majority that post here while people that enjoy them are busy using them. lol

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If thats the case its not very many or these forums wouldnt be so full

You specifically might like the wards but the FACT remains that most items are not on sale there because so many don't use them at all.

If most people don't use the MW it's as good as broken economy can be.

Whether you personally like MW or not doesn't really matter as so many have stopped using them completely because they're used to quick and easy systems like the AH.

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Originally Posted by Seif

You specifically might like the wards but the FACT remains that most items are not on sale there because so many don't use them at all.

If most people don't use the MW it's as good as broken economy can be.

Whether you personally like MW or not doesn't really matter as so many have stopped using them completely because they're used to quick and easy systems like the AH.

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I've been playing on and off since the game's release and I tried once to sell items on the MW. After going a full week without seeing a sale, I said "F this", took my retainer back, and I've been vendoring or tossing out items since. It's an incredible pain in the ass to use as a seller and only marginally better as a buyer.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I've been playing on and off since the game's release and I tried once to sell items on the MW. After going a full week without seeing a sale, I said "F this", took my retainer back, and I've been vendoring or tossing out items since. It's an incredible pain in the ass to use as a seller and only marginally better as a buyer.

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I've had success and failure. It seems to be mostly based on what I'm selling. If I'm selling crafting materials, it could go either way. With class weapons/tools, they sell more often than not so long as I put them at a reasonable price. Repair requests are always filled, without fail, so long as I leave the retainer there for at least 8 hours.