Allagan Gear getting buffed to ilvl95.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

Absolutely. why dont we have myth drops from brayflox or halatali then? since the level of content you do shouldnt matter and should get you the very best. you should never, ever be able to get lvl.90 items from lvl.50 content. plain and simple.

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That's the thing, if you choose to do Coil you can have the opportunity to get ilvl90 gear right away after clearing Turns, but for places like AK and WP you don't get it right away and instead have to save for weeks (due to caps) to be able to afford ilvl90 Myth gear.

I could go into a casino and win a fortune by betting more challenging high stakes and get rich quick, or I could keep betting small stakes and keep building and building up to that big fortune... but it will take longer.

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

..ial treatment. That's why it makes a lot more sense that allagan weapons would be receiving the boost, because T5 is much more of an accomplishment.

Never mind the fact that Yoshi's whole philosophy behind the existence of gear purchasable with currency counters this argument you and others are placing that people unable/unwilling to play coil are somehow lazy and greedy. Read here to see Yoshi P.'s idea behind the system. Whether you agree with it or not, a lot of games have moved to adopt similar systems over the past decade.

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the only game to move over to the system where you can get the best stuff in the game by doing relatively little is GW2.. and i believe wit the ascended gear, they stopped doing that too because its dumb.

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That's the thing, if you choose to do Coil you can have the opportunity to get ilvl90 gear right away after clearing Turns, but for places like AK and WP you don't get it right away and instead have to save for weeks (due to caps) to be able to afford ilvl90 Myth gear.

I could go into a casino and win a fortune by betting more challenging high stakes and get rich quick, or I could keep betting small stakes and keep building and building up to that big fortune... but it will take longer.

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As i said before, i have no problems with a token system, the problem is the tokens are obtained from content FAR below the level of the rewards. Its like story mode garuda dropping her hard mode weapons.. you wouldnt find that strange?

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

Yes there should be a token system in place, but it should NOT be in significantly easier content. if you want ilvl90 gear, you run ilvl90 content, sure there is a lack of variety with ilvl 90 content, but that doesnt mean ilvl50 stuff should be used for it. How is this not making any sense? lol. it has nothing to do with the effort you put in to get your gear. Like i asked before, when we have ilvl110+ gear, should you also be able to spam WP to get it?

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So AK, being designed for ilvl50-55 and dropping ilvl60, shouldn't drop myth tomes either? Are you saying that only Coil should drop myth tomes? That's what it sounds like you're saying.

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

So AK, being designed for ilvl50-55 and dropping ilvl60, shouldn't drop myth tomes either? Are you saying that only Coil should drop myth tomes? That's what it sounds like you're saying.

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Actually that is probably correct. Coil, HM Titan, EM Primals and HM dungeons (with an i70 requirement) should probably have been the only instances that reward myth tomes.

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Originally Posted by Teon

Who the hell was asking devs this idiocity? some " l33t raider" crybabies ? :rolleyes:

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The weapon upgrade seems fair to me. Titan HM gives relics (an easy level 80 weapon). Defeating Coil T5 will takes more than the time that it takes to get a + 1 unless you have a super awesome group. You don't even have to try to get a relic + 1. It comes to you in 3 weeks.

My group hasn't even cleared T4 yet. I know how easy it is to get a + 1 relic. I have two relic + 1. I believe I will have four relic + 1 by the time my group defeats T5.

This is a MMO game, you will never be the same as someone who spends more time than you in-game. The real world isn't much different. People get where they are at usually because they have worked harder than the other person. They have spent more time grinding their life at a specific job. This is why they become professionals at what they do.

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Don't forget extreme primals are now dropping weapons the same level as relic + 1. So you don't even need to wait 3 weeks if your group is able to clear the extreme modes within this time.

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

So AK, being designed for ilvl50-55 and dropping ilvl60, shouldn't drop myth tomes either? Are you saying that only Coil should drop myth tomes? That's what it sounds like you're saying.

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Thats exactly what im saying, AK shouldnt have it either, it would be a stretch for CT to have it since its rewards are lvl80. Yes there is a lack of ilvl90 options, but hey, its a brand new game, what do you want?

please someone tell me why you cant get a garuda axe from story mode garuda. answer the question in a way where it makes sense that ilvl90 gear comes from ilvl 55 content. its the same argument.

i will step down from this argument if anyone can do this. Since garuda is ilvl40(?) and hard mode is 60... 20 ilvl gap.. then with that range, it should be perfectly ok right?? since currently you can get ilvl 90 stuff from 55, a 35 level gap.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

please someone tell me why you cant get a garuda axe from story mode garuda.

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Because at the time of fighting HM Garuda in the main story you'll only be level 44-46 and Primal Weapons require your character to be lvl50 so it wouldn't make sense giving you a weapon at that point which you cannot use, lol :P

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Originally Posted by Skyl1n3

Because at the time of fighting HM Garuda in the main story you'll only be level 44-46 and Primal Weapons require your character to be lvl50 so it wouldn't make sense, lol :P

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LOL.. touche'

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

the only game to move over to the system where you can get the best stuff in the game by doing relatively little is GW2.. and i believe wit the ascended gear, they stopped doing that too because its dumb.

As i said before, i have no problems with a token system, the problem is the tokens are obtained from content FAR below the level of the rewards. Its like story mode garuda dropping her hard mode weapons.. you wouldnt find that strange?

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GW2 is definitely not the only game to add a system where you could get similar gear through artificially gated content. GW2 and FFXIV may be the only two AAA games that made it a bit easier to do that. I won't mention the taboo MMO here, but another example is Aion. When 3.0 hit, you had a few options: Run Tiamat Stronghold for gear, do a quest line for gear (a questline that was far more time consuming and expensive), or collect kahrun coins to exchange for gear on an NPC. This is just one example, but definitely not the only game to place some non-raiding endgame progression that was comparable.

And yes, I get your point on how you feel Coil being a bit harder should yield much better rewards than mythology. But that's not the philosophy Yoshi P. had in mind, so it's up to him ultimately if he wants to change his stance on it now. Also need to keep in mind that this is still a new game, and T6+ with 2.2 might yield much better rewards than whatever token gear that may or may not be added at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

Thats exactly what im saying, AK shouldnt have it either, it would be a stretch for CT to have it since its rewards are lvl80. Yes there is a lack of ilvl90 options, but hey, its a brand new game, what do you want?

please someone tell me why you cant get a garuda axe from story mode garuda. answer the question in a way where it makes sense that ilvl90 gear comes from ilvl 55 content. its the same argument.

i will step down from this argument if anyone can do this,

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Level sync is the reason that would make sense. You level sync to under level 50, and therefore you shouldn't be seeing weapons drop that you cannot equip. But in WP you are getting tomes to equip gear that requires level 50 (both i70 and i90 are equipable by a level 50 character). It isn't a good reason but its the only one that makes sense imo.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

LOL.. touche'

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I actually meant Normal Garuda lol too used to typing "HM *Enter Primal Here*" xD

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

GW2 is definitely not the only game to add a system where you could get similar gear through artificially gated content. GW2 and FFXIV may be the only two AAA games that made it a bit easier to do that. I won't mention the taboo MMO here, but another example is Aion. When 3.0 hit, you had a few options: Run Tiamat Stronghold for gear, do a quest line for gear (a questline that was far more time consuming and expensive), or collect kahrun coins to exchange for gear on an NPC. This is just one example, but definitely not the only game to place some non-end tier raiding progression that was comparable.

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was the questline level appropriate? or could you have someone with a glowy shield hold everything while you put mobs to sleep and win?

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Originally Posted by zdub303

Level sync is the reason that would make sense. You level sync to under level 50, and therefore you shouldn't be seeing weapons drop that you cannot equip. But in WP you are getting tomes to equip gear that requires level 50 (both i70 and i90 are equipable by a level 50 character). It isn't a good reason but its the only one that makes sense imo.

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we are talking a pure item level argument here. but you bring up another great point.. should we really be earning ilvl.70 and i.lvl90 gear at the same time with the same content? lol

edit: darn.. we still have daily post limits?? really? lol... maybe if i run more WP i can get more of that too.

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Originally Posted by zdub303

So... wait. You are agreeing with a post that says its stupid that Allagan gear be more powerful than Mythology gear... and now you backpedal saying your waiting for the next round of crafter gear? Then why do you care about Mythology gear and how it relates to Allagan gear anyways then? As long as the content you are interested in is tailored to the level of gear you can obtain through non-raid means, why do you care what happens to raid gear?

I know its frustrating getting logic stomped on a public forum, but are the insults necessary?

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Please go back and reread. You've missed everything said.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

was the questline level appropriate? or could you have someone with a glowy shield hold everything while you put mobs to sleep and win?

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Quest line was simply time consuming and gold consuming. Didn't require special gear or dungeons except for the weapon, which was significantly harder. The kahrun coin gear was completely solo stuff -- Handful of quests where you killed some target mobs (easy ones) every week and obtain coins to save for gear. You could get some outside of the weekly cap by doing some dungeons that gave coins as a reward too, so in this sense it was even easier than FFXIV's system. They added some gear that was better like a year later, but thus is how the whole progression system works with MMOs anyway.

My point is that FFXIV is definitely not the only game to try and cater to more than one play style. Hardcore raiders are a minority on MMOs. If you want to keep casuals playing, you have to implement ways for them to progress without feeling pressured to complete content they aren't mechanically inclined enough to do or don't have time to do.

5 ilvl on weapons that only drops in Turn 5 (currently hardest raid) is not punishing Casual though, not even that many groups can clear T5 even now, there are a lot more now, but still are not much.

And you pretty much have to accept that, any MMO that has a gear grind (GW2 arguably, does not have gear grind so it isn't a good example to compare), and any MMO that has a raid scence and grind (points, token, tombs), when in comparison, the gear you get from raid, especially the hardest raid, almost always will be stronger.

In FFXIV it is only the weapon (general Allagan gear still being questioned if it will also be ilvl95), so it isn't too bad in comparison to other MMO in this respect already.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

If you couldnt do the dungeons to receive lvl.90 armor, what makes you think you'll be able to do ilvl100 content?

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We can beat iLv90 BC in iLv70 gear, i would imagine beating the next teir of content in something that's HALF the gap shouldn't be impossible. Even then something will drop that i can lot and upgrade with... unless it's trashcan gear.

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Originally Posted by Grym

5 ilvl on weapons that only drops in Turn 5 (currently hardest raid) is not punishing Casual though, not even that many groups can clear T5 even now, there are a lot more now, but still are not much.

And you pretty much have to accept that, any MMO that has a gear grind (GW2 arguably, does not have gear grind so it isn't a good example to compare), and any MMO that has a raid scence and grind (points, token, tombs), when in comparison, the gear you get from raid, especially the hardest raid, almost always will be stronger.

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Yeah, I'm fine with weapons. T5 is still really hard, should be something to look forward to there. It's armor that bothers me because some myth gear pieces are way better than allagan, and unless itemization is changed on one or the other, this will continue to be the case regardless of a tiny stat boost.

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Originally Posted by Fyreus

We can beat iLv90 BC in iLv70 gear, i would imagine beating the next teir of content in something that's HALF the gap shouldn't be impossible. Even then something will drop that i can lot and upgrade with... unless it's trashcan gear.

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You also have to remember that it sounds like current BC was designed around running a 2 WAR setup (current, live unbuffed WAR). They just derped and didn't really test the PLD much in coil other than to make sure the PLD could clear it too (and are now buffing WAR to match). I would expect the next tier of content will be as difficult as it currently is to clear with 2 WAR.

I'm bitching because melee DPS has 2 different sets that make up 1/3rd of the available loot pool. Whereas Tank/Healer/Magic DPS compose more than half the raid and have 3 sets as well. What that equates to is having physical DPS more geared on average than every other class. Which is fine if I can keep pace with Myth gear... which is not fine if I am forced to watch dragoon/monk accessories drop over and over again while waiting for best in slot.... Guy who designed coil loot needs to be reassigned and this should be fixed... even if they don't change allagan loot to ilvl 95

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

You also have to remember that it sounds like current BC was designed around running a 2 WAR setup (current, live unbuffed WAR). They just derped and didn't really test the PLD much in coil other than to make sure the PLD could clear it too (and are now buffing WAR to match). I would expect the next tier of content will be as difficult as it currently is to clear with 2 WAR.

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I remember that, but as a PLD only player it really doesn't bother me since i have iLv90 gear and working on finishing my set. Even with the WAR buff on the way i still doubt anyone will have much issue even with 10 level gaps as the difference between myth and alla gear would only be but so many points (although i'd be lacking some HP for choosing 35+ str/dex other stats over ~190 HP)

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

According to the stream, Yoshida did in fact mention this upgrade to item level 95 was to be for Allagan weapons only due to the difficulty of turn 5, whereas the text on the Japanese and English Q&A post indicated equipment in general. Just to be certain, we will double check with Yoshi-P and let you know for sure.

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So what's the point of making a relic?

Relics are lv 80 as Moogle weapons (seriously, 5 bosses+1dungeon+money to get a relic, 1 boss to get a moogle weapon)
Relics+1 are inferior to allagan weapon even if it takes 3 weeks to make one.

what's the point? why should i bother farming tokens? also twintania doesn't even require lv90 gear (and CT will give us a lot of lv80 gear)

Also that's completely against this post by Naoki Yoshida: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...33#post1578533

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Play through the Binding Coil of Bahamut and obtain gear from drops.
Collect Allagan tomestones of mythology to exchange for gear.

Although these methods are different, each allows for the acquisition of level 90 gear.

In short, players who have ample time to play are free to collect tomestones, or challenge the Binding Coil, and those who have less time can still acquire tomestones at their leisure. Despite the difference in time available to players, the game is designed so that everyone can potentially obtain item level 90 gear.

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In 2.1 there will be no way to farm for lv95 gear or allagan equivalent. Obtaining the best gear will require a party and social skills that many players don't have (or don't want).

make token acquisition more difficult if it's "too easy", i don't care, but don't let the best gear be based on RGN, That's the same mistake you did in 1.0


make lv95 token from lv80-90 content so we can farm lv95 things and they're not "too easy", but don't kill token system.

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Originally Posted by Tano

In 2.1 there will be no way to farm for lv95 gear or allagan equivalent. Obtaining the best gear will require a party and social skills that many players don't have (or don't want).

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That's too bad, the amount of care is just astronomically insignificant. It's 5 ilvls people even if it is for all gear or just weapons, it's not going to break your gameplay that you are missing those 5 ilvls. What content could you possibly need those few extra stat points for? CT is meant for people in ilvl 55 gear, extremes and even 1-4 in coil are meant for darklight. What are you doing that you need the absolute best of the best gear for if you cba to run the content that drops said gear?

Be glad they went with the WoW model of currency that lets you get high end gear in the first place while doing nothing more than easy 4mans. They could have just said screw you and made myth from coil only making all these arguments pointless as then it really would only be the players who are willing to put in effort getting the best gear.

so does it mean allagan item stat will get buffed?

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Originally Posted by Sterob

so does it mean allagan item stat will get buffed?

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Ilvl has always determined the amount of stats on a piece of gear in mmos, so yes whether they only buff the ilvl of weapons or all the gear from coil it will all get slightly higher stats. By slightly I mean you're going to get atmost 1 core stat extra with maybe 2 vit and 1-2 secondary stats per piece. If it is for all the gear you'll be lucky to see a 2-3% increase in dmg or healing when compared to what you would have in full ilvl 90.

As a bard though I can tell you that even with the ilvl increase(if it is for all allagan gear) you will be gimping yourself far more by taking full allagan than you would having some myth pieces to go along with it. Full allagan does not have even close to the required accuracy that myth/allagan has, full allagan puts you 50 acc below the 470 cap you need for coil to have 100% hit chance.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

Like i asked before, when we have ilvl110+ gear, should you also be able to spam WP to get it?

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Yes, you should.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

According to the stream, Yoshida did in fact mention this upgrade to item level 95 was to be for Allagan weapons only due to the difficulty of turn 5, whereas the text on the Japanese and English Q&A post indicated equipment in general. Just to be certain, we will double check with Yoshi-P and let you know for sure.

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Uh....if that's the reason, shouldn't the Monk Chest be ilvl95 as well? It only drops on turn 5...

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Originally Posted by Camate

-snip-.

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I truly hope this is the case. My favorite part about FFXIV: ARR's endgame system is how it feels somewhat like horizontal progression. The player has two options for great gear. They can either invest their time with myth tomes or get lucky with allagan. This is fantastic for everyone. If you have bad luck (like I do) you just need to put the time in and get great gear as you play. If you have great luck, you can invest your time in coil and save myth tomes for something else.

I truly hope this continues for future endgame content. I believe MMO players are done with the endless grind against RNG. Myth tomes are absolutely reasonable as well as having the secondary option of coil.

I really hope it was just weapons. Cause if its armor as well this is gonna screw up my whole "BiS" setup I planned for (and already passed Allagan to others cause it wasn't my BiS...)

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

I really hope it was just weapons. Cause if its armor as well this is gonna screw up my whole "BiS" setup I planned for (and already passed Allagan to others cause it wasn't my BiS...)

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How does it screw up a bis list? You're taking some of those pieces because of accuracy right? 5 ilvls extra for allagan gear isn't going to change the fact that you still need accuracy to hit things, those pieces with acc on them will continue to be better because of the acc whether they are ilvl 95 or 90. Just because the gear may be changing to 95 doesn't mean everyone needs to be an ilvl hero and take every higher ilvl pieces just to increase their epeen when in reality they are severely gimping themselves due to secondary stats.

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Originally Posted by Tano

So what's the point of making a relic?

what's the point? why should i bother farming tokens? also twintania doesn't even require lv90 gear (and CT will give us a lot of lv80 gear)

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So you can actually fight twintania in the first place and not gimp your group and make the fight slower? You may aswell spend the tokens on a relic+1 so you have the best weapon for the fight itself.

Besides, there's people who haven't seen their weapons drop from primals in dozens of fights and you can spam them as much as you like so what are the chances you'll see the allagan weapon for your job any time soon with it's weekly lockout?

What about people who passed Allagan Weapons because they already had Relic+1?
Passed an Allagan Shield to the other tank last time since I already have Holy Shield+1 and it's not that different.

Seriously, you can't change those things midway. People invested time and effort in Relics+1.

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Originally Posted by Tano

What about people who passed Allagan Weapons because they already had Relic+1?
Passed an Allagan Shield to the other tank last time since I already have Holy Shield+1 and it's not that different.

Seriously, you can't change those things midway. People invested time and effort in Relics+1.

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Lol effort running wp/ak. Look at it like this, if allagan weps are ilvl 95 they will have a single dps higher than ilvl 90 weps and have probably 2 extra stats. A single dps and 2 stats, do you honestly believe those will be noticed by the crowd already killing Twintania on a weekly basis? It's not even a 1% dmg or healing increase and you act like it's some kind of game changer.

I'd like to point out that it takes about the same amount of effort to earn both gear. Really should be just equal. As some have trouble making static group to farm coil and some have issue of determination of grinding dungeons every week. Either way given time both content would become easily farmable because once a group becomes over-geared for those end game content it'll become obsolete.

More over-geared people = more pugs making it through either type of content.
If they limit to being coil as the only option to the next tier, they'll just bottle neck players to farm coils every week instead of doing other content that right now rarely anyone do.

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Originally Posted by alien52

If they limit to being coil as the only option to the next tier, they'll just bottle neck players to farm coils every week instead of doing other content that right now rarely anyone do.

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If 5 ilvl on a weapon (so will be approx 2 main stat and 3-4 secondary stats) is what stopping them farming the contents, I think they have got a lot more problems to look into then getting better gear.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

According to the stream, Yoshida did in fact mention this upgrade to item level 95 was to be for Allagan weapons only due to the difficulty of turn 5, whereas the text on the Japanese and English Q&A post indicated equipment in general. Just to be certain, we will double check with Yoshi-P and let you know for sure.

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So does this mean that they will ACTUALLY add in the shield and make it ilvl 95 for casters? We get kind of screwed with having a 1h scepter off twintania and no shield to go with it....

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Originally Posted by Teon

Ye, luckly.
Wait, so all the hassle getting a relic is a pure waste of time, running titan hm quadrillion times, when just a simple lucky roll of last chest will give us a better weapon?
It was appropriate when on par, now coil is getting ridiculous. Let's add how fragmented and isolated are coil groups, with fixed spots, and a backup for emergencies :rolleyes:

Who the hell was asking devs this idiocity? some " l33t raider" crybabies ? :rolleyes:

I'm not gonna substitute my shiny relics +1 (3 weeks of myth wasted) because devs are so idiot to add a tier on allagan weapons , be sure. It's better if dev team wake up, raising relic+1 to ilvl 95 too :rolleyes:

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Sorry, I cannot take this comment serious.

Getting the Allagan Weapon is so much harder then getting the Relic +1 weapon, if anything they should raise the iLvl to 95 and raise the stats as well.
In the end, Binding Coil is the hard endgame content and rewards should fit the difficulty.

Relic + 1 is ridiculously easy to get.

Good move SE, this should have been the case when it first started.

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Originally Posted by Pellegri

How does it screw up a bis list? You're taking some of those pieces because of accuracy right? 5 ilvls extra for allagan gear isn't going to change the fact that you still need accuracy to hit things, those pieces with acc on them will continue to be better because of the acc whether they are ilvl 95 or 90. Just because the gear may be changing to 95 doesn't mean everyone needs to be an ilvl hero and take every higher ilvl pieces just to increase their epeen when in reality they are severely gimping themselves due to secondary stats.

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Some people forgo pieces because it has too much acc or not enough, along with looking at the other secondary stats. So from a min-max perspective, it might change 1-2 pieces to accommodate the item.

Hopefully this change will be to all coil gear. If they really intend for the best gear in the game to be from coils, then wearing full allagan needs to be a hands down upgrade from any of the myth items, not just 1 stat difference for mix/matching.

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Originally Posted by Grym

If 5 ilvl on a weapon (so will be approx 2 main stat and 3-4 secondary stats) is what stopping them farming the contents, I think they have got a lot more problems to look into then getting better gear.

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Talking under the assumption if it they meant it as the armors that is going up 5 ilevel. If it's just weapon then yes that is fine.