I hope this game doesn't become like FFXI

I don't hope FF XIV will turn into FF XI but into FF XIV-2 or FF XIV Reloaded. The same as the old FF XIV, but much better.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Elaborate, please.

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Like any other FF out there. Or well designed rpg.
You know how the diffuculty in games sclase upwards are you learn new things about the system you are playing in, and how to exploit it and take advantage where you can?

Difficulty needs to scale as the players (and community) learn new things.

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Originally Posted by Kam

Im tempted to start throwing out the old "GO WAI, PLAY WOW YOU STOOPID NOOBS" arguement from XI.

Cus seriously, some of you need to go play it. Obviously FFXIV and FFXI are not your cup o' tea.

Leave ^^

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WOW is even worse than FFXI.

WoW is the lowest of the low, the bottom of the barrel. WoW is so far down the bottom of the barrel it's practically in China. Which might explain why there's so much RMTs.

If you're going to suggest a MMO, suggest a good one or GTFO.

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Originally Posted by Felis

I don't hope FF XIV will turn into FF XI but into FF XIV-2 or FF XIV Reloaded. The same as the old FF XIV, but much better.

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Yeah Give me that. Give me FFXIV on steroids with mag wheels and a freaking AK47 distensible gattling gun or something.

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Originally Posted by Felis

I don't hope FF XIV will turn into FF XI but into FF XIV-2 or FF XIV Reloaded. The same as the old FF XIV, but much better.

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I have a feeling this is excatally their plan. And why they have spent almost 6months working towards it.

"It's becoming like [Enter Stupid and Repetitive Game Here]"

Me and surely others in this community don't want to make this game like WoW or XI (even though some ideas seems to be born from there).

Ya know what I want? That this game becomes like FFXIV. NOW THAT'S A RECURSION! BEAT THAT!

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

WOW is even worse than FFXI.

WoW is the lowest of the low, the bottom of the barrel. WoW is so far down the bottom of the barrel it's practically in China. Which might explain why there's so much RMTs.

If you're going to suggest a MMO, suggest a good one or GTFO.

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XI was a good MMO. But thats a different forum and thread.

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Originally Posted by Kam

XI was a good MMO.

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Only compared to WoW.

It's not my fault you dont have standards. You want to say FFXI is a good MMO, fine, but don't come crying to me when the genre stagnates because people like you were perfectly content to wallow in filth instead of having fun.

I hope the whole forum doesn't become like this thread, because this thread sucks.

Seriously people have different interests, they are going to make the game however they want, those who don't like it will make the game, our input doesn't really that much they just want to test out new ideas on us. Expect the game to get more challenging since there is no content for any rank, and people would like to test how great they truly are on their class, in games like XI and XIV the community competes against each other by being the best at their respective classes and not pvp. I just don't see what use it is to argue against or for it being XI-2, when they already have quite set in their minds what this game should be in a years time. Let them do what they do, are all games developed by player bases bitching?

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

I hope the whole forum doesn't become like this thread, because this thread sucks.

Seriously people have different interests, they are going to make the game however they want, those who don't like it will make the game, our input doesn't really that much they just want to test out new ideas on us. Expect the game to get more challenging since there is no content for any rank, and people would like to test how great they truly are on their class, in games like XI and XIV the community competes against each other by being the best at their respective classes and not pvp. I just don't see what use it is to argue against or for it being XI-2, when they already have quite set in their minds what this game should be in a years time. Let them do what they do, are all games developed by player bases bitching?

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You hate people who claims that a game sucks just because they say so!?

YOU REALLY MEAN IT!?

...

me too! High Five!

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

Only compared to WoW.

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XI was my first MMO, XIV is my second. I dont have the wealth (and i use that term very loosely) of knowledge that some people have. I don't have that kind of time or will to bother with every system within every MMO to be able to point at something and say "OH THATS IT!"

Thats the devs job. Research and innovate.

Apparently you do have the wealth of time and knowledge though, hmm?

Having to pay attention and put thought into what your doing is a good idea. I agree with it 100 percent. A lot of people playing XIV played XI. I'm sure we want the good aspects from XI to come over to XIV and not the bad. I'm just glad SE is remembering the people who have less time to play.

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

It's not my fault you dont have standards. You want to say FFXI is a good MMO, fine, but don't come crying to me when the genre stagnates because people like you were perfectly content to wallow in filth instead of having fun.

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Sorry, once something becomes a "genre" it has certain specific standards to meet to reach 'said genres' requirements.

That in itself is stagnation.

Leme guess, you were one of those kids at school who listened to rock music to be "original and different"? ;)

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Originally Posted by Kam

Sorry, once something becomes a "genre" it has certain specific standards to meet to reach 'said genres' requirements.

That in itself is stagnation.

Leme guess, you were one of those kids at school who listened to rock music to be "original and different"? ;)

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I don't listen to music. That is so lame.

I listen to sound collages and the voices of nature. Music, ha - how pedestrian!

But seriously, if you think the MMO genre fulfilled its potential at FFXI, then that's the whole problem right there.

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

I don't listen to music. That is so lame.

I listecrashn to sound collages and the voices of nature. Music, ha - how pedestrian!

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Go wai.....

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

But seriously, if you think the MMO genre fulfilled its potential at FFXI, then that's the whole problem right there.

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No, thats your assumption.

Now for mine. I'll assume you're an MMO hopper - you have tried out plenty of different systems and styles and the genre has stagnated for YOU.

For me. It hasnt.

Can you appreciate that?

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Originally Posted by Kam

No, thats you're assumption.

Now for mine. I'll assume you're an MMO hopper - you have tried out plenty of different systems and styles and the genre HAS stagnated for YOU.

For me. It hasnt.

Can you appreciate that?

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The reason I played FFXIV was because it promised to further the genre (Armory system, robust crafting system, and eventually Player Companies). I think they made a good start. But throwing away their efforts just to resort back to FFXI just because 100 or so people view FFXI as the reference frame for all MMOs is just retardation (in every sense of the word).

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

The reason I played FFXIV was because it promised to further the genre (Armory system, robust crafting system, and eventually Player Companies). I think they made a good start. But throwing away their efforts just to resort back to FFXI just because 100 or so people view FFXI as the reference frame for all MMOs is just retardation (in every sense of the word).

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Well, we have the same reasons for playing. The fact the OP stated he wants the diffuculty to stay the same is abosoulty retarded IMO.

Most of the current playerbase I talk to in game have come directly from XI - and not that they should dictate the future at all. (cus they wont. SE always does want they deem best at the end of the day, and rightly so - its their game)

They havent said anything about canceling player run companies. Its still in the works.

And as far the the systems that they stated - that would "further" the genre - as you put it.
Is a pretty redundant statement if they're not crafting a new "genre" out of what we currently know as a "MMO"?

Look at any other type of media. Everything according to your logic is stagnating.

I think new ideas are always good, but they should of kept some basics from xi, besides race just text commands and certain features that were useful, not the usually confusing to some macros or what not, but I would like search commands. When it came to XIV they forgot everything they did right about XI, and that is kinda unacceptable, it shouldn't be copy and paste of XI, but they should not focus on only negative things to change (and the complaints about XI made XIV what it is). Also in the grand scheme of things I don't think they are changing this into a XI clone, its going to be a FF clone in a mmo setting, which is what XI was, XIV should be better. All i want is that "FF feeling", in XI in Jeuno top floor, i felt like i was back in a city from FFIII or IV, I want that from XI in XIV but not particularly the time sink (which i believe was half created by players)

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

I think new ideas are always good, but they should of kept some basics from xi, besides race just text commands and certain features that were useful, not the usually confusing to some macros or what not, but I would like search commands. When it came to XIV they forgot everything they did right about XI, and that is kinda unacceptable, it shouldn't be copy and paste of XI, but they should not focus on only negative things to change (and the complaints about XI made XIV what it is). Also in the grand scheme of things I don't think they are changing this into a XI clone, its going to be a FF clone in a mmo setting, which is what XI was, XIV should be better. All i want is that "FF feeling", in XI in Jeuno top floor, i felt like i was back in a city from FFIII or IV, I want that from XI in XIV but not particularly the time sink (which i believe was half created by players)

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This is genrally what most people I talk to in game say. there is nothing unreasonable about taking the commands from XI and having them here for functionaltiy purposes, its one of XIVs real failures.

There should have been no issue within the dev team to fix what isnt broken - they should have taken a step back, looked objectivly at what the let downs were of that system. THEN try to correct it. Not simply build something to be different for that reason alone.

EDIT-

take wheel development on cars for example, no one ever said "oh this doesnt work, lets make it a square, or a triangle instead, cus that circle shit is getting old."

No

The wheel has been worked on - breaking, grip, power. every aspect tuned to what you buy on a modern car today is an improvment of what came before.

Logic is simple, really..

Yeah its only logical to progress from what you have into something better, who idea was it to scrap completely everything from XI besides the races, and some rip off architecture in three cities, and some lore stuff (gridania seedseers, windurst star sybil). I'd like to see more mini cutscenes like XI had, BUT NOT IN IMPORTANT zones, having to wait for someone who did not get their cutscenes finished is old news. I don't speak for everyone, but when I play a game I like to progress due to something in the lore/cutscenes I want to learn more about, and in XIV the cut scenes were few and far between, :/ and there is a crap ton of stuff I want to know!

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

I think new ideas are always good, but they should of kept some basics from xi, besides race just text commands and certain features that were useful, not the usually confusing to some macros or what not, but I would like search commands. When it came to XIV they forgot everything they did right about XI, and that is kinda unacceptable, it shouldn't be copy and paste of XI, but they should not focus on only negative things to change (and the complaints about XI made XIV what it is). Also in the grand scheme of things I don't think they are changing this into a XI clone, its going to be a FF clone in a mmo setting, which is what XI was, XIV should be better. All i want is that "FF feeling", in XI in Jeuno top floor, i felt like i was back in a city from FFIII or IV, I want that from XI in XIV but not particularly the time sink (which i believe was half created by players)

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Well said. Some of that gets lost within all the talk of races, jobs, etc. But some of the really unacceptable, confusing things that turned people off was how they managed to make XIV worse regarding the basics. Targeting, UI, Search/Party/LS functions, controls, etc. A lot of time had to be spent just sorting that mess out early on. And some of it still needs work.

Though they did get some things right(Crafting/Gathering are much more enjoyable in XIV) and other things can be a lot better in the near future.

I don't exactly want them giving up on new ideas(unless they were bad or fubar) just to copy XI, but they definitely could've borrowed more good things from XI and avoided some of the headache they created.

I kinda feel with the newest letter that this is exactly where this game is going OP.. :/ I can't find it in myself to be excited over that. I loved FFXI and all but this was supposed to be more free form and that's been completely cut out or so it would seem. I will wait to see what happens this summer, I doubt I will quit the game ever but still my level of enthusiasm is on the decline.

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

The reason I played FFXIV was because it promised to further the genre (Armory system, robust crafting system, and eventually Player Companies). I think they made a good start. But throwing away their efforts just to resort back to FFXI just because 100 or so people view FFXI as the reference frame for all MMOs is just retardation (in every sense of the word).

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Pretty much....

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Originally Posted by Leeloo

I don't exactly want them giving up on new ideas(unless they were bad or fubar) just to copy XI, but they definitely could've borrowed more good things from XI and avoided some of the headache they created.

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This. A million times.

All it would have taken was someone on the dev team to actually have played both XIV and XI longer than 10hours and given honest feedback.

Two ideas from XIV im looking forward to is

1) Player Run companies - there are islands in game we could build ships to get to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4M1hx41WXk << two for example.

2) Chocobos being more than just a "mount" system (i think they'll be our moogles at some point, e.g. moveable retainers/mog houses)

But thats just my hopes.

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Originally Posted by Kam

This. A million times.

All it would have taken was someone on the dev team to actually have played both XIV and XI longer than 10hours and given honest feedback.

Two ideas from XIV im looking forward to is

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This is also true, innovation + XI's basic functionality (like the LFG flag system for one) is what we expected, instead we got a whole lot of unrefined innovation in a half baked shell. I'm still confused like most of you why they didn't just build on what was existing in XI for the skeleton and build on that instead of trying to reinvent absolutely every little aspect and running of time.

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

ffxi sucks, ffxiv sucks.

There, happy now? They both suck.

Get some taste in games and THEN and ONLY THEN can you have any credibility in discussions.

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Im wondering why ppl that have almost 200 posts in an official forum, of a game they dont like, produced from a company that makes games they dont like.... /mumble mumble

boredtroll?

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Originally Posted by Cendres

This is also true, innovation + XI's basic functionality (like the LFG flag system for one) is what we expected, instead we got a whole lot of unrefined innovation in a half baked shell. I'm still confused like most of you why they didn't just build on what was existing in XI for the skeleton and build on that instead of trying to reinvent absolutely every little aspect and running of time.

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I belive this is the last of tanaka's work in-game, and what player built company content would "unlock"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4M1hx41WXk

(3mins for first island, 8mins for 2nd island)

PLEASE CHECK THAT LINK!!!

^^

Looking from this the average player is in the same mind set. But with the new job system, I think its going to to be option to be on a job, and maybe only useful for end game situations, my hope is they don't limit the classes within the jobs by lets say pug can only be a dd monk, how about a different type of monk (dug up from old ff games slap name here) that is more of tank. They said with CC or crowd control, they were going to balance these, I think they understood that those of us who were still player XI in 2008/09, might of not had the useful jobs for things and resorted to "jank" strategies to succeed, (pld, blu, rdm on under ops ; ; its "aight"), so if every class could go two to three modes (dd, tank, cc, healer prob more w/e), that would balance the game out to the point where you lnc and mrd friend can come too and so can pug, on 2-3 of their advanced jobs which suit the roll. If they did that we wouldn't always gravitate towards THM, GLA, and ARC

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Originally Posted by Kam

I belive this is the last of tanaka's work in-game, and what player built company content would "unlock"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4M1hx41WXk

(3mins for first island, 8mins for 2nd island)

PLEASE CHECK THAT LINK!!!

^^

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ok, the idea of sailing to islands, and having stuff going on there, seems like it would have been great.

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Originally Posted by Leeloo

Well said. Some of that gets lost within all the talk of races, jobs, etc. But some of the really unacceptable, confusing things that turned people off was how they managed to make XIV worse regarding the basics. Targeting, UI, Search/Party/LS functions, controls, etc. A lot of time had to be spent just sorting that mess out early on. And some of it still needs work.

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Putting the comparisons aside, this I can agree with. There is such a thing as working groundwork for a game that was basically tossed out the window.

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I don't exactly want them giving up on new ideas(unless they were bad or fubar) just to copy XI, but they definitely could've borrowed more good things from XI and avoided some of the headache they created.

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I agree with you in part. I'll also admit I am jaded based on the myriad of bad ideas that saw implementation in FFXI, which is why it's a little difficult to bring myself to trust them to give us something that is both enjoyable and meaningful without having a stupid timesink or highly inconvenient conditions attached to it.

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Originally Posted by Physic

ok, the idea of sailing to islands, and having stuff going on there, seems like it would have been great.

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Well that is not out of the picture yet o:
It would be pretty cool, seeing there are lots of little islands in separate zones in that vid.
Perhaps linkshell owned airships/boats can sail to their own linkshell run island where their company housing is and such. Would be pretty cool.

I'm glad that some people put their honest opinion about this topic. I hope that the devs watch your and my comments closely.

people who demand this game become FFXI-2 are holding back the game developing

they against every ideas to make this game become what MMO should be, want to keep XIV remain what they used to have in XI

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Originally Posted by Evangela

people who demand this game become FFXI-2 are holding back the game developing

they against every ideas to make this game become what MMO should be, want to keep XIV remain what they used to have in XI

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People who demand FFXI-2 want only a upgrade of a superb game.
For upgrade I mean a FFXI without issues, plus the all the good things FFXIV has brought to the MMO community until now.

If this is holding back, then i see a problem in your logical analysis.

XI is not a superb game, it a niche market so it's a superb game just for XI players

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Originally Posted by Evangela

XI is not a superb game, it a niche market so it's a superb game just for XI players

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I agree, FFXI was much more appreciated by the critique than FFXIV. 1 thing i hated about last director is he was so much into doing a different game that he almost made on purpose not to make anything like FFXI. Like you can make a better different game and still take the good ideas of FFXI and other MMO's. Like why there is no mail system, now if i want to help a friend i got to meet him in person, its very anoying, + why there is no guild banks like in other MMO's, i dont want to FFXIV look like other MMO but if they got good ideas, well take it.

Only reason i quitted FFXI: Outdated graphics, waiting all day to get a party

Big + in that game: crafting system is the best ever seen on any MMO, like now crafting is an actual job, not just a sideline, graphics

Big - so far: Lore still treat you like a nobody, taking for exemple aion, where NPC are like "hollly cow here is shinigami this is gonna be the best fight evar!", FFXIV npc are like "eh scrub, get lost!", no end game contentl (about to change with 1.18)

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Originally Posted by Evangela

XI is not a superb game, it a niche market so it's a superb game just for XI players

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9.1 year long running MMORPG.

Makes multiple millions per month.

Funded numerous SE's projects

Had a consistant player base even after numbers dropped.

Yeah it's a good game. Niche = what certain MMOs are if it isn't a WoW clone.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

9.1 year long running MMORPG.

Makes multiple millions per month.

Funded numerous SE's projects

Had a consistant player base even after numbers dropped.

Yeah it's a good game. Niche = what certain MMOs are if it isn't a WoW clone.

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it's a good game but not a superb game

if it's not a niche, it would make more income for SE

and I think FFXIV goal is not just become another niche so you people (XI nerds) better stop holding them back