I think Summoners are fine.

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Originally Posted by glim

funny how people are now only finding out that summoners are way over the top that arguably needs to be tuned down a bit (even I thought summoners were weak as hell a few weeks ago), yet my friend has told me that in JP forums, everyone knew that summoners were already too strong even before the parsers were out.

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Meh. the parsers are way bugged and JP always just guess anyway :P .. they add alot of dps you never do while using it as a summoner. I think summoners require some neutral changes/recreatins of certain spell as alot now are just simply nice.. but there are still somethat simply have not got a single use in any situation :P (neutral ones.. not buffs or nerfs).

In my opinion both people saying they are OP and people syaing they are UP are both simply wrong :P

- lvl 50 sumn and i love sumn so much... ive now got a second one up to 35 to on a different account :D (yay for registering the key in the wrong service btw XD)

The problem with SMN isn't damage output, in fact as many people have said SMN does an insane amount of damage, up there with BRD. The problem is that Summoner doesn't feel very much like a Summoner, it feels more like a WoW Warlock than a Summoner.

DoT's make up pretty much all of the class's damage, which while works fine and is standard in MMO's to have a DoT based DD class, it just isn't what you expect a Summoner to be like.

Now for those of you saying that every FF is different and things change with each one, you are correct. But if you look back at all the previous FF titles, yes they are all different but they also have some reoccurring themes. A FF title has to have some of these themes, otherwise it doesn't feel like a FF title, and one of the biggest reoccurring themes are the classes and how they handle. (Dragoons jump, White Mages cure, etc.)

Summoner just doesn't fit into the FF theme that previous titles made them out to be. Summoners should be more about the summon, (as they have been in every previous FF) not DoT's.

1. I like my egis just fine personally, most of the complaints stem from "but summoner in X game wasn't like this" which irks because it isn't a summoner from X game it isn't the summoner from FFXIV.

2. Pets need work so you're more in control of them and they are more responsive but I don't want to be a pokemon trainer yelling attacks while I scratch my nuts. Plus I feel pets in general do need a rework to make them a more interactive part of our rotations.

3. Personally I enjoy my summoner and don't find her boring to play at keeping track of my dots and my egi while managing fight mechanics keeps me occupied.

@Timeraider

you can always log your own damage and compare it to the parsers if you still do not trust it.

do a 2 minute rotation on a target dummy,get someone to jot down all the dot damage they see on the screen, and get all the damage from the combat logs, sum it all up and divide it by 120 seconds, compare the parsers, it's consistent.

Can someone provide a parse of 2 minute rotation on dummy ? (the rotation needs to be mana efficient as in you were in a group without bard)
with detailed on skills damage. and gear possessed.

I personally spend a lot time watching parsers.
On the latest version FFXIV-app, others DoTs are no longer broken when grouped with SMN/SCH. However looking at SMN skills details, we see some huge disparity with dummy fights.
The first being that DPS achieved during boss is higher than on dummy. This alone proves that parser cannot be trusted for SMN at the current time.
The second is the avg DoT, Bio II is registered with an average over 300 dmg. Yet a fully DoT dummy damage displayed on screen (not parser) is around 225-250 (crits does affect this value so it can go higher). It seems that Bio II takes damage from other DoTs from the SMN thus increasing by 50% is real dot in the parser.
Well this is pure theory and this would need more investigation.

Parser aside, on titan tries we have seen a dps loss with SMN.
The clearing of phase 1 with 2 BRD, 1 DRG and 1 BLM (only 1 relic weapon) was faster than BRD, DRG, BLM and SMN (2 Relic +1 and 1 Relic). We only switched 1 BRD and we had huge dps gain due to relic, yet we took longer to get to heart phase.
There can be only 2 reason for this :
- our SMN play bad (very unlikely knowing him and even that would mean he would have screwed big time to lower our overall dps)
- SMN single target dps is lower than BRD, DRG and BLM. Which is something we all feel in our FC

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Originally Posted by Thotor

- our SMN play bad (very unlikely knowing him and even that would mean he would have screwed big time to lower our overall dps)

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No, this is his/her issue.

I was at ~320 DPS when I tabbed out. It dropped because DoTs and the combat didn't end until it bled out.

http://i.imgur.com/ZpRGv4j.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZpRGv4j.jpg


Here's no Enkindle/Shadow Flare(more mana efficient and no 5 minute CD):

http://i.imgur.com/eQgdlK7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eQgdlK7.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/HBhMi7S.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HBhMi7S.jpg

Another no Shadow Flare/Enkindle, and here it is after they had time to bleed out:

http://i.imgur.com/Xl57oFM.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Xl57oFM.jpg




You can also see how broken the parser is, because in the second I tabbed out as soon as my timer went off. The first I was trying to run out of range hoping it would end the combat--I snapped the picture much later. I'm 99% sure Shadow Flare isn't 60+ dps.

Thanks. Can you provide the skill damage breakdown if you don't mind ?
Also how much damage does your total DoTs tick at on the screen ?

My fc is saying the same thing. In groups with summoners, stuff takes longer then other dps classes. I honestly don't know why or how ppl keep defending the class and say its due to bad players when the rotation is one of the easiest in the game, lol. A rotation of 4-5 abilities, real tough. Sorry but I just don't see how the class is one of the strongest. My fc agrees and a vast majority of the summoner community agrees. I think pride and stubborness is blocking those defending it.

Your 3 main dots take 5 seconds to set up, a fester at 6.25 seconds, basically more than makes up for your previous lack of dps.

So if it lasts more than 5 seconds, you're already even on dps, 10 seconds for your last dot. If you contagion now you have 15-20 seconds of pure ruin spam too.

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Originally Posted by Thotor

Thanks. Can you provide the skill damage breakdown if you don't mind ?
Also how much damage does your total DoTs tick at on the screen ?

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http://i.imgur.com/1S197gp.jpg

Breakdown from the last one.

~320-330.

~390 from Raging Strikes.