Prog skipping/lying is going wild this tier.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I think one wild thing is that people are advertising that they're checking _some_ website to see where you are in the fight, in party finder. People really like living on the edge of the law.

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SE has made it abundantly clear that they won't enforce their own rules, so people have stopped caring.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

SE has made it abundantly clear that they won't enforce their own rules, so people have stopped caring.

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Sure, but ousting people from parties and playing the instances by checking a third party program and website? That's playing with fire.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Sure, but ousting people from parties and playing the instances by checking a third party program and website? That's playing with fire.

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SE generally needs evidence aquired in-game (chat logs typically) to pursue a ban. Not only that, but typically they don't act if there is any ambiguity whatsoever in a report - because they likely fear the fallout of an erroneous ban. (And, frankly, that's justified. Gaming companies that have subscription play have lost lawsuits against players when they failed to uphold thwir ToS in the past. Worse, Japan had a very big culture around not losing face, and the lost of trust from multiple lost characters or mistaken ban would be amplified tremendously.)

So right now we're in the situation we are now: SE only acts on the most brazen violations, sweeps the rest under the rug, and keeps collecting money.

Personally, I'm just going to eat some low-fat popcorn and giggle at people being foolish and reaping what they sowed.

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Originally Posted by Jamini

SE generally needs evidence aquired in-game (chat logs typically) to pursue a ban. Not only that, but typically they don't act if there is any ambiguity whatsoever in a report - because they likely fear the fallout of an erroneous ban. (And, frankly, that's justified. Gaming companies that have subscription play have lost lawsuits against players when they failed to uphold thwir ToS in the past. Worse, Japan had a very big culture around not losing face, and the lost of trust from multiple lost characters or mistaken ban would be amplified tremendously.)

So right now we're in the situation we are now: SE only acts on the most brazen violations, sweeps the rest under the rug, and keeps collecting money.

Personally, I'm just going to eat some low-fat popcorn and giggle at people being foolish and reaping what they sowed.

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You think they will be disciplined or banned? That's kind of funny. I mean I always thought the use of 3rd party programs was like an open secret, so if they weren't blatant about them nothing would be enforced. But like to openly be hostile to other players by using a third party program and ousting them from parties borders on brazen. Like it's already shady when someone is like "Bring allagan melons", but this...

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Sure, but ousting people from parties and playing the instances by checking a third party program and website? That's playing with fire.

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Lmao what's SE gonna do about someone "checking passports" in a PF? They won't even go after people with <<Mare Lamentorum>> in their search info despite us all knowing what that means. If they don't care about a giant glowing "HEY I'M MODDING MY GAME LOOK AT ME" sign in your bio they certainly don't care about this. It's all about plausible deniability.

I'm not really a fan of it, I don't check them myself because it's unreliable and screws over console players, but there's no solution unless SE just sends the passport website a C&D or something.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Sure, but ousting people from parties and playing the instances by checking a third party program and website? That's playing with fire.

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Third party website =/= using a third party program. So you can't use that for evidence regardless.

Honestly, that website was going to be made sooner than later. At least we don't have a public blacklist like JP. Frankly, I'm surprised we don't have one considering how NA loves drama, so that seems perfect.

People are complaining about prog lying individuals when this is a game design problem. To be frank I actually get tired of how lopsided fights end up being in FFXIV because of simply not knowing some mechanic or having learned a different strategy from the group. Outside of a sliver of the population everyone doing these fights are using assistive technology to even accomplish completing them AND it is like doing cram lessons every night due to all the crap someone has to remember.

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Originally Posted by YukioKobayashi

Its unhinged to hop from PF to PF far above the progpoint to single handedly ruin the party within 2 pulls after already waiting for a while to fill.
All this wouldnt be a problem if SE stops actively protecting those players.
Players that are not bad at the game want to be able to point out if someone is holding the group back but we cant because everything you say in partychat nowadays can get you into the GM-Jail. We want to be able to look up playerstats on certain websites before we decide to keep that person in the party but even that is... against the guidelines. The only way to escape from players like this is to just disband the party and open a new one where the circle begins again.

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Like that has stopped world of warcraft from becoming pug hell .these tools that you talk about do nothing but promote elite toxicity and more wait time .

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Originally Posted by Miohazuki

Like that has stopped world of warcraft from becoming pug hell .these tools that you talk about do nothing but promote elite toxicity and more wait time .

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Ngl... I rather raid with WoW's toxic pug's than what we have in 14 rn.
Back in Dragonflight when I picked up the game with the release of the first Raid Vault of the Incarnates I did prepare myself for the nHC-Mode, watched guides and pov's. I did clear it. Was i good enough for it and did I pull my weight? Idk. I thought I could do the same for the HC-Mode but without preparing myself with guides ect. I thought it doesnt matter anyway because I'm only DPS and I had 0 responsibility on the nHC mode. I ended up eating shit, being one of the sole reasons why the group wasnt able to clear with me in the party. People pointed out that I'm the issue, that I'm clueless and that I'm not prepared in a rather toxic way. I got kicked and I wasnt even mad about it. I knew that I messed up, that I wasted the other players time and knew that I have to prepare myself for the next attempt.
Now imagine they would have acted like the FF raiding community and just disbanded the entire Raid. I wouldnt have learned from it and would have done it probably again. Thats the issue 14 has. Prog liars are not getting punished for their actions and will not stop doing it. I want to get shit done in a reasonable time and not waste over a week on something that could have been done in 1-2 Days because of selfish thinking prog skippers.

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Originally Posted by YukioKobayashi

Ngl... I rather raid with WoW's toxic pug's than what we have in 14 rn.
Back in Dragonflight when I picked up the game with the release of the first Raid Vault of the Incarnates I did prepare myself for the nHC-Mode, watched guides and pov's. I did clear it. Was i good enough for it and did I pull my weight? Idk. I thought I could do the same for the HC-Mode but without preparing myself with guides ect. I thought it doesnt matter anyway because I'm only DPS and I had 0 responsibility on the nHC mode. I ended up eating shit, being one of the sole reasons why the group wasnt able to clear with me in the party. People pointed out that I'm the issue, that I'm clueless and that I'm not prepared in a rather toxic way. I got kicked and I wasnt even mad about it. I knew that I messed up, that I wasted the other players time and knew that I have to prepare myself for the next attempt.
Now imagine they would have acted like the FF raiding community and just disbanded the entire Raid. I wouldnt have learned from it and would have done it probably again. Thats the issue 14 has. Prog liars are not getting punished for their actions and will not stop doing it. I want to get shit done in a reasonable time and not waste over a week on something that could have been done in 1-2 Days because of selfish thinking prog skippers.

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While toxic positivity is very present in PF and kind of in the FF14 community overall, I don't think flaming/being toxic to prog liars will achieve much anyway. They can just mute you/ not read the chat, and carry on with the prog lying. The only viable solution is for people to actively use the block/blacklist function a lot more. Only by denying entrance, they will perhaps understand that their behavior is bad.