Please fix scaling, fights are dying so fast now

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Originally Posted by Daralii

I frequently see people not even bothering to try dodging mechanics in almost every piece of roulette content because the game's trained them to not care. The health pools and lethality of the Nier alliance raids have made them some of my favorites to get in AR roulette now, because the overwhelming majority of them just make me drowsy.

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This is honestly my biggest gripe around it currently, is that it just builds complacency. There is 0 incentive to learn or develop mechanical skills, if there is 0 risk on whether you do or don't actually execute them. Long-term veteran players that are experienced might do it if it gives them more damage, but if you're a new player and you only take marginal damage for failing mechanics then it isn't adding in any consequence.

If people aren't building those skills then all it does is lead to a bigger disparity when they go for other streams of content. I don't know how people cannot see this as an issue in itself.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

No is not. The first turn aka The Binding Coil of Bahamut is not savage. Yes, it is more challenging but it's not savage. Only the second coil (savage) is actually savage.

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You're misunderstanding something. In ARR, they did not originally distinguish between normal and savage. Thus, Binding Coil was savage and dropped max item level gear to reflect this. It was also very challenging, at least when I did, and still is if I do it Minimum Item Level. It's not in the "normal raid roulette" for a reason.

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Doing 3 times the damage (claimed by you) would also mean you clear 3 times as fast

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Depends on downtimes and cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Do you understand how min ilvl works or are you just talking randomly? Min ilvl is the lowest ilvl required to enter the dungeon. If the fight itself is easy to begin with scaling it will not fix the issue.

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There are other factors that affect it than just item level: food buffs (which don't fully sync), potency increases over the years, battle system changes over the years (like stat changes), syncing down with BiS causes crit/dh/det to cap in place of materia potentially resulting in an unnatural crit rate compared to the past.

Setting something to Min Ilvl + Silence Echo usually recreates the experience well enough, but sometimes things still melt too much, sometimes enrages won't ever be seen, and I once skipped half of Titan Ex despite these settings (was a really good party though).

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Originally Posted by Menriq

I see this brought up a lot. Nothing will ever make it the original intended experience because things have changed. Not only jobs, but entire instances have been redone.

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Not always the same experience, but usually a very similar experience. Even with dungeon reworks, many of the mechanics have tried to retain the spirit of the original mechanics while being more intuitive (last boss of Snowcloak, last boss of Halitali).

ya'll really need to stop trying to make this game out to be something its not lol final fantasy has always been more appealing to a more casual oriented audience its heavily story focused not a "souls" remake or "WoW clone" experience.
you have all been given: unreal trials, ultimates, savages, criterion, extra difficult deep dungeon floors and 24 man savage level content.
the average player lacks the damn attention span and the ability to care for something thats too difficult to surpass normal dungeons and normal 24 man content is for those players that have the inability to adapt to high stakes an its not going to change either because especially in the JP community they despise it and flame Square Enix an send death threats if their dailies/weeklies are taking too long too complete and is not optimized to their work schedules.
now i think its fair to ask for some challenge but they are not going to go back thru every single expansion just to make a measly 8% of their players happy when their time and their resources are better spent adding newer features and content to complete.
they gave you who complained about this issue options to feel like you're playing the game how its "was" in its glory days via minimum ilvl and no echo syncronizing its not their fault that alot of you refuse to use the gear sets of that time to make it more genuine an get that oh so "nostalgia" you're trying to force others re-live an suffer with you

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Originally Posted by ShadowyZero

they gave you who complained about this issue options to feel like you're playing the game how its "was" in its glory days via minimum ilvl and no echo syncronizing its not their fault that alot of you refuse to use the gear sets of that time to make it more genuine an get that oh so "nostalgia" you're trying to force others re-live an suffer with you

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If you actually read the thread, you'd hopefully understand that MINE isn't perfect and the experience will still be very different from what it was. I am extremely casual, and very bad, but I'm still exceedingly bored when everything just falls over from a stiff breeze and there is no threat from anything but instant kill mechanics.

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Originally Posted by ShadowyZero

ya'll really need to stop trying to make this game out to be something its not lol final fantasy has always been more appealing to a more casual oriented audience its heavily story focused not a "souls" remake or "WoW clone" experience.
you have all been given: unreal trials, ultimates, savages, criterion, extra difficult deep dungeon floors and 24 man savage level content.
the average player lacks the damn attention span and the ability to care for something thats too difficult to surpass normal dungeons and normal 24 man content is for those players that have the inability to adapt to high stakes an its not going to change either because especially in the JP community they despise it and flame Square Enix an send death threats if their dailies/weeklies are taking too long too complete and is not optimized to their work schedules.
now i think its fair to ask for some challenge but they are not going to go back thru every single expansion just to make a measly 8% of their players happy when their time and their resources are better spent adding newer features and content to complete.
they gave you who complained about this issue options to feel like you're playing the game how its "was" in its glory days via minimum ilvl and no echo syncronizing its not their fault that alot of you refuse to use the gear sets of that time to make it more genuine an get that oh so "nostalgia" you're trying to force others re-live an suffer with you

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Nobody is asking for all of this. People, so I am not sure why you're jumping straight to the gun with the "Souls and WoW clone" experience.

People are literally just asking them to establish a close to on launch experience with duties. I don't see how this is so misunderstood. Nobody is asking them to be harder than they were, just to continue to maintain that standard, so something like Hades, for example isn't reduced to a wet noodle when it is a capstone fight.

Personally, I don't think they need to go back at do every duty that has ever existed, but they certainly need to at least treat capstone encounters with a little respect. There is a certain point where it isn't just making a small demographic happy, but having a cascading impact on all players that would engage with the game in the future, and it is important that they at least have a slight engaging experience without having to wait a few hundred hours,

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Originally Posted by ShadowyZero

ya'll really need to stop trying to make this game out to be something its not lol

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You are completely misrepresenting what is being said here, even casual content still has something of an experience, and if the fight is made too easy due to iLvl creep and other factors, then that experience is ruined, we aren't asking for days of prog to clear one Normal raid, we are asking for the fight still take a casual, completely new group something so they feel the fight, like maybe they wipe once or twice, but get it anyway, I even gave a prime example of how bad it can be with the Endsinger, y'now, the final boss of the whole 10 year long storyline, being made too easy within her expansion, and it was such a problem that the devs acknowledged it and set a stricter limitation, as without feeling the full length of the final phase, the whole "the indifferent cruelty of the universe vs the indomitable human spirit" message of the fight is completely ruined.

I actually had a fun example of this this week, someone in my FC wanted to do M4N for his weekly sword, and someone else chimed in they'd like to join but they hadn't even cleared M1N, so we decide that's completely fine, we form a party and take them from the start to end of the raid tier, we even agree to pass on all the loot so they get it all and are able to upgrade their crappy 690 gear to much more viable if not perfect 710, and I had an absolute blast doing that, we wiped at least once every fight, and that was great, with little moments like our newbie chiming in "I hate her so much" immediately after we cleared Honey, it's an experience that won't be possible the same way in a year, because forming a party is easy, forming a MINE party is much harder.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Nobody is asking for all of this. People, so I am not sure why you're jumping straight to the gun with the "Souls and WoW clone" experience.

People are literally just asking them to establish a close to on launch experience with duties. I don't see how this is so misunderstood. Nobody is asking them to be harder than they were, just to continue to maintain that standard, so something like Hades, for example isn't reduced to a wet noodle when it is a capstone fight.
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the only way they are going to achieve this is by one gutting those fights to 4 an similar to what happened to ultima in ARR or by just making them completely solo instanced fights ala Lahabrea in the same structure and yet even when they did that people still bech and moan lmao so you tell me what exactly is going to satisfy these people???
i'll tell you a secret: its nothing because they will never ever be satisfied and will still continue to bech and moan lol

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Originally Posted by ShadowyZero

the only way they are going to achieve this is by one gutting those fights to 4 an similar to what happened to ultima in ARR or by just making them completely solo instanced fights ala Lahabrea in the same structure and yet even when they did that people still bech and moan lmao so you tell me what exactly is going to satisfy these people???
i'll tell you a secret: its nothing because they will never ever be satisfied and will still continue to bech and moan lol

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For most fights post-SB, most people would actually be happy with an item level sync that is equivalent to on-patch gear. To use Hades example again, they could literally cap the fight at 440 (equivalent to initial tome gear), and I am bold enough to say that I bet most people that have this issue would be satisfied with that solution.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

You are completely misrepresenting what is being said here, even casual content still has something of an experience, and if the fight is made too easy due to iLvl creep and other factors,

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believe me when i say that i agree with your overall sentiment, it would be nice if things remained consistent an stayed as the beautiful spectacles that they are but they just won't because the casual content is not designed to stand the test of time or built to last they made it a one and done thing cause they know the majority wont waste their time to go back and do it especially with no incentives to do so.
and i am sure mad as hell what they did to the open world experience its so disrespectful that is been reduced to "Set Dressings" for a play/production rather than a fully engaging and immersive experience like with that we had in ARR where you could actually go inside building and see or talk to many npcs an more but i've given up hope they will ever go back cause they've proven they don't care too or dont want to.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

For most fights post-SB, most people would actually be happy with an item level sync that is equivalent to on-patch gear. To use Hades example again, they could literally cap the fight at 440 (equivalent to initial tome gear), and I am bold enough to say that I bet most people that have this issue would be satisfied with that solution.

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Ayup. An easy fix would be to set the ilvl sync for a piece of content to the maximum ilvl achievable when that content launched. (For content that's particularly important to the story, the ilvl sync might be tighter.)

So to go back to the OP, P4N would sync to 600, not 660, with a min-ilvl of 565. That leaves 35 ilvl of power creep via gear to be a thing -- and mind you, that's still something that you can feel -- but the creep won't be nearly as egregious as it is now.