The Healer DPS Problem, The Toxicity it incites

I'm a little confused. Did they need to use their off GCD abilities? Were they dpsing instead of making sure the party had enough health to survive things? That's bad. But if they were weaving dps in but keeping the party going then it doesn't sound like there was an issue. Were they just not using things you thought they should be?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Are you certain that healer was aware they have those oGCD abilities outside of you saying so? ...

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Very much this.

The game does a pretty bad job of teaching a lot of things, and even people coming from other MMOs are generally going to prioritize cast heals before oGCDs since in many other games, "thing with a long CD is for emergencies" is a pretty common paradigm.

As to the Tank side-discussion:

Note that when you don't overgear stuff (e.g. running 4 man Extremes in min ilevel vs running them with current BiS gear for Savages/for your Job in the entire game right now) is a very different experience. People can be killed by raidwides if no healing goes out. Final Day in min ilevel gear the ONLY Tank that could solo the bosses was WAR and maybe PLD. I know GNB couldn't do it when I did it right as I unlocked it in the MSQ. Just wasn't enough reliable healing and mitigation once the healer went down. Pretty sure that would be true for DRK as well (and still is, even when well geared now). WAR is the one that trivializes content and can solo dungeons. PLD can by modifying to a Clemency heavy "rotation", but that's going to be WAY slower than having a Healer healing them.

People vastly overestimate the average gear of players in most content, as well as the average level of player knowledge - not skill, just knowing for example that oGCDs can be weaved (and that triple or quad weaving them is an absolute damage loss). I still remember coming to the game and not knowing that an oGCD could be used at the same time as GCDs in weaves until SB (started playing in ARR) since the game literally never says anything to you about it. I just knew that Tetra was more responsive than Cure 2, but the why of it wasn't there since there's no way you can get that other than just playing a lot or an outside-of-game guide telling you. The amount of people that independently figure that out is likely pretty small.

Get back to us with this complaint op when you can find a piece of content that need healing. I gotta say that non healer run of omega ultimate and my recent fun run of expert with a tank and 3 dps...kinda tell me something else.

This game was honestly made braindead so the healers can dps more. If you find you want the challenge. Run literally everything min ilvl and no echo and enjoy.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

I would like you to consider the flip side of the coin - lying dead on the ground while your party continues the without you, the healer because you died to a mechanic, but they don't really need you. Or forms a party but asks you to join as a DPS because a 'healer will only slow this down" and you have to agree that they're right- but really - you would prefer to heal and DPS- NOT have the tank do it for you.

Now, you may say that I'm exaggerating, perhaps so. However I would say that the game has way overcompensated for the 'squishy tank" issue. The time is over due to look at the other options that allow all roles to have an engaging experience, and part of that for me means that each role will have to rely to some degree (depending on difficulty perhaps) on the other roles in group content. No one role should carry, no one role should be excluded from content design.

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Easy solution:
Leave tank personal sustain alone, decrease their group healing and mitigation
Add cleaves and really nasty unavoidable AoE damage to more enemies
Add reasonable but tight enrage timers to bosses

There. Now the tank can't sustain the entire party, everybody is screwed if the DPS are bad, healers are forced to heal, and nobody gets screwed out of their enjoyment of their job.

The above aside, I invite you to consider the following:
Most non-extreme/savage content is in fact doable without tanks. Just need to make sure one of the healers is a shield-healer so the tankbusters don't erase the DPS.

The entirety of the MSQ can be solo'd (almost). It's time we inject some difficulty back for players who want to play with others. Best of both worlds.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

The above aside, I invite you to consider the following:
Most non-extreme/savage content is in fact doable without tanks. Just need to make sure one of the healers is a shield-healer so the tankbusters don't erase the DPS.

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Even if it did, you have two more of them. So you can just scrape the dead DPS off the floor and continue. Sure it's going to take forever but with no enrage timer to worry about that doesn't matter.

Also, every healer should get a trait so that the second they are in a party they loose all DPS capabilities. :D

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Even if it did, you have two more of them. So you can just scrape the dead DPS off the floor and continue. Sure it's going to take forever but with no enrage timer to worry about that doesn't matter.

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Which is a good reason to start putting in enrage timers again. The only complication there is how it would impact people who want to go back and do the old content solo after it's no longer relevant. They'd have to make the epic echo or whatever it's called a lot stronger to compensate, although I suppose it's not a problem they'd need to worry about until Dawntrail was over and done with anyway.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Which is a good reason to start putting in enrage timers again. The only complication there is how it would impact people who want to go back and do the old content solo after it's no longer relevant. They'd have to make the epic echo or whatever it's called a lot stronger to compensate, although I suppose it's not a problem they'd need to worry about until Dawntrail was over and done with anyway.

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The last thing this game needs is more enrage timers. It's such a cop-out. Oh, you didn't press your 1 2 3 fast enough -> ded. The fact that SE even need to resort to something like this because every other RPG element has been sandblasted off speaks volumes.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Also, every healer should get a trait so that the second they are in a party they loose all DPS capabilities. :D

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So we can finally watch Netflix during the dungeon and press a Cure 2 every 30 seconds guilt-free. Now THIS is peak gameplay.