Why balance jobs to just high-end raids?

They can make all the changes they want to high-end raid and I still won't go raiding.

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Originally Posted by HyonaCookie

I wouldn't say casual content requires a lot of effort, but if you look between jobs in a role you can see the skill floor for jobs varies more. For instance it takes less effort to do dungeons as WAR than as a DRK, the difference being for one tank you only need to press one button to succeed while the other requires you to press many at a time. The same can be said for WHM versus other healers. I just think that the skill difference between jobs when doing casual content shouldn't be so different, unlike high end content where it doesn't matter because people will find a way around it.

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Scholar is the easiest healer, white mage is just annoying. AST is probably the hardest one but that’s because it requires the ability to split concentration between cards, healing and targeting the correct teammate/enemy with heals/aoe. They aren’t really hard in absolute terms though unless your teammates are collecting damage deliberately. All tanks play exactly the same in dungeons: you go in, gather mobs, mitigate, take a bit of damage and watch the healer panic and completely waste your self-healing ability.

To answer the title of the thread, because below extremes the difficulty is entirely theoretical. When was the last time you wiped on a dungeon or even normal trial?

For a different reason would be interesting if they separated balance, give high end content highly technical gameplay that is also tightly balanced (may loose some individuality, not intentionally though). Then run hog wild with theme and job identity in the easy content where it doesn't really matter as much if the balance is a little messy, particularly as the content is also directed by automated systems rather than player lead where the real issues would arise.

Funny homogenization is sometimes blames on casual as I think its the hardcore audience that ultimately caused SE to run that way (watching from long ago, imo, it's pretty clear the trend started /because of/ the issues in high end content). Although on the other hand, certainly I think the easy to play jobs was the casual audience but those are two distinctly separate issues.

Hence.. give balanced but high skill ceiling builds for high end, give high personality but potentially easier jobs for story. Use the rolling mountain just the same, where echo now is basically unlocking high flavor kits.

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Originally Posted by HyonaCookie

I don’t see the point in balancing jobs to high end raids. Even if you balance jobs so they’re all playable in high end content, raiders will still meta chase and use mods and tools to make their experience easier. Meanwhile, because jobs aren’t balanced to casual content, some jobs take more effort than others to clear content because of the huge discrepancy in how much skill is needed to play a job, which doesn’t exist in 8-man content because that’s where jobs are balanced. In 4-person content such as dungeons, the effort discrepancy between the job that requires the least effort to play and the job that requires the most effort to play is big to the point where it’s not worth playing certain jobs in 4-man content. But in 8-man hard content, even the job that requires the most amount of effort is not that different compared to the job that requires little effort.
I don’t get why casual players need to put more effort in playing the job they like in content they want to play while high end players get to put the same amount of effort into each job to do the same thing. I think jobs should be more balanced towards casual content because so the amount of skill and effort required to clear is not so wide between jobs while it doesn’t matter if the skill gap is wide for high end content because raiders often just end up gravitating towards the easier job anyways.

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If your not doing EX/Savage/Ultimate, just hit your 1-2-3 combo and your good, the content doesn't require much more skill than that.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

If the "skill" necessary for Warrior in an AoE pull is 1/10 then it's 2/10 for the other tanks. At which point who even cares? They're all incredibly easy and overpowered because we're ridiculously higher level than the mobs.

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I don't agree with this assessment. If it was true, then why do people when asked for advice on playing DRK in dungeons say "just play WAR" instead? Why do people act like it's impossible to tank in dungeons as a DRK without having the healer/dps carry you?

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Originally Posted by fulminating

Scholar is the easiest healer, white mage is just annoying.

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Maybe if you're used to playing SCH, but not everyone plays 100% without skill issue like you.

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Originally Posted by HyonaCookie

I don't agree with this assessment. If it was true, then why do people when asked for advice on playing DRK in dungeons say "just play WAR" instead? Why do people act like it's impossible to tank in dungeons as a DRK without having the healer/dps carry you?

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If you're only listening to dumb people you're going to hear incorrect statements.

> Lalafell is angry, that some jobs are harder than others for casual "I dont know what to press next" play
> Lalafell is angry 3 post later, that jobs are homogenized

Like... Bruh.

Also, your mentions of hi-end players playing only meta and always using tools only makes you look dumb. Just admit to yourself you are playing bad and not accusse others for it. In the time of writing this thread, you could already practice and get better.

Because its the easiest, least ammount of effort they can do to pretend this game is balanced in anyway.

There even is harder content where the jobs aren't even close to balanced, its just no one cares.

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Originally Posted by HyonaCookie

I don't agree with this assessment. If it was true, then why do people when asked for advice on playing DRK in dungeons say "just play WAR" instead? Why do people act like it's impossible to tank in dungeons as a DRK without having the healer/dps carry you?

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That feels like a very memey answer from a warrior main like myself, DRK is fine though it isn't as easy as WAR but you can do stupid amounts of damage with DRK. In reality, all tanks are easy in dungeons if you just push your dam buttons. The only issue with DRK is getting a bad healer lmao.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

> Lalafell is angry, that some jobs are harder than others for casual "I dont know what to press next" play
> Lalafell is angry 3 post later, that jobs are homogenized

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I'm not sure where you got that I was angry jobs were homogenized. I just don't think homogenization should be catered to high end raiders.

And I'll admit to overexaggerating about high end raiders, but I don't see how that makes me bad at the game. I do practice my rotation and try to align my damage to buffs in normal content. I even do all my dungeon roulettes as DRK and rarely have issues. I don't see how not doing savage and ultimates makes me a bad player.