Machinist needs an overhaul with the pvp job style for pve.

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Originally Posted by WiccaP

Honestly! Like I know the Devs hate "pet" classes, but having the old rook and bishop again could potentially help with the dmg issue without just directly buffing the skills we have while giving some much needed flavor and identity. While we're at it, it would give the Devs something to develop more with machinist since they've claimed the current iteration is "complete". IF they wanted to add utility back in, a 3rd turret that throws up a small shield, or change flamethrower into a turret that does a 360 aoe. How about making the queen not feel like a bigger turret and change it to something more. Also like why do Sch get to have a fairy that auto-heal, but Smn and Mch cant have a pet that does an Auto-attack anymore?

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All good questions. My guess in regards to it being "complete" is that the rotational loop and stuff is simple, loops well and makes a lot of sense. It feels very fluid compared to other classes without being too busy. It is busy, but it's busy because of the constant oGCD weaving. However, this apparent closed loop could very easily just be built upon, either giving us another use for our gauge(s) (with appropriate balancing so it's not just a straight up dps loss to do so) or just giving us a button to press as a stand-alone utility, much like Radiant Aegis on SMN. The latter is probably simpler, but it'd make sense to use battery in some way in the case of Bishop. That said, we come back to the fight design issue where it's just not really necessary and so I doubt it'll ever come to fruition.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Wrong.

MCH rotation worked wonderfully with the cast.

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Unfortunately making the text of your subjective opinion bold doesn't turn it into a fact.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Wrong.

MCH rotation worked wonderfully with the cast.
It was BRD whose rotation was awful.

But now with all the QoLs and removal of many oGCDs, they could bring back the casts.

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Considering the casters are slowly loosing their cast times, I just don’t see this comming back

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

Please no.

PvP MCH is clunky and the worst I ve ever played. Moving during casting ist nice, but not when you re slowed. And you cant interrupt your charged attack, so you have to think twice before doing your standard attacks.

And dont get me started talking about the drill/blaster/anchor/chainsaw rotation...

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You can in fact cancel your cast people need to stop parroting this point when it comes to flaws in bringing PVP mch over to PVE. Pressing the jump button doubles as a cast cancel button whilst you're in a cast bar.

Personally i love the PVP mch feel, my main complaint with MCH since SB has been its stopped feeling like a gunner class and became some weird technomage acrobat. Burst Charge is so much cooler than the 1-2-3 and still has a weave window, as at least a start they could have that then have another ability cost a small amount of heat acting like a "ruin 2" (hotshot maybe?) for if you need the movement/double weave. Having these cast times be just a thing for MCH can help balance out the fact its the selfish ranged and gives it a bit more identity.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Unfortunately making the text of your subjective opinion bold doesn't turn it into a fact.

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Gonna have to disagree with you here, MCH's rotation actually did work very well with the cast times as it was designed around them, you could basically keep 2 gcds of movement+ free at any time if you knew what you were doing, and if you somehow needed more than that you could drop barrel or use feint for a minimal dps loss. Basically it was kinda like how SMN used to be where despite being a "caster" with a little bit of thought you could move whenever you wanted to.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Unfortunately making the text of your subjective opinion bold doesn't turn it into a fact.

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It doesn't make anything wrong either.
On top of that, it's not an opinion, it's a fact.

HW MCH was designed with casts in mind. BRD wasn't, which is why casts were removed.
If you disagree, I invite you to look back at the HW kit. I don't have many videos of it, HW MCH had some flaws and a few stupid elements like cumulating 3 buffs, but it remained a very good job to play with a lot of room for ingenuity.
It felt impactful and rewarding.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

It doesn't make anything wrong either.
On top of that, it's not an opinion, it's a fact.

HW MCH was designed with casts in mind. BRD wasn't, which is why casts were removed.
If you disagree, I invite you to look back at the HW kit. I don't have many videos of it, HW MCH had some flaws and a few stupid elements like cumulating 3 buffs, but it remained a very good job to play with a lot of room for ingenuity.
It felt impactful and rewarding.

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I never got to level cap in HW with MCH, from videos it just looks like a bunch of hard casts and like 4 identical buffs (Blood for blood, Hawkeye, Raging strikes ect) and a ton of fodder skills (Heartbreak, Blank, Suppressing fire, Lead Shot, Gauss round, Ricochet) unless I’m missing somthing vital (Probably ammo) it looks very primitive

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

Gonna have to disagree with you here, MCH's rotation actually did work very well with the cast times

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

it remained a very good job to play with a lot of room for ingenuity.
It felt impactful and rewarding.

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Again, these are subjective statements.

An objective statement would be, "the machinist job used to have cast times." The statement is based in irrefutable, verifiable fact.

A subjective statement would be, "the Machinist cast times were fun, they felt impactful and rewarding." The statement is based on your own personal opinion, feelings, and biases. Other people may feel the opposite.

So I can have the subjective opinion that MCH cast times are neat, which I do as stated previously, but also understand the objective truth that most players did not agree with that opinion at the time it was last a part of the job, resulting in cast times being removed. From that information I can infer that such a design is unlikely to return to the job in PvE, but unlikely is not an absolute, so if the new PvP design proves popular, who knows?

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Again, these are subjective statements.

An objective statement would be, "the machinist job used to have cast times." The statement is based in irrefutable, verifiable fact.

A subjective statement would be, "the Machinist cast times were fun, they felt impactful and rewarding." The statement is based on your own personal opinion, feelings, and biases. Other people may feel the opposite.

So I can have the subjective opinion that MCH cast times are neat, which I do as stated previously, but also understand the objective truth that most players did not agree with that opinion at the time it was last a part of the job, resulting in cast times being removed. From that information I can infer that such a design is unlikely to return to the job in PvE, but unlikely is not an absolute, so if the new PvP design proves popular, who knows?

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The objective statement we made was MCH was designed around casts times and worked well, whereas bard wasn't. Worked well is objective, provable even, whether it was fun or not isn't and was not what we were saying. It must be very easy to win an argument with an oppenent made of straw.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

I never got to level cap in HW with MCH, from videos it just looks like a bunch of hard casts and like 4 identical buffs (Blood for blood, Hawkeye, Raging strikes ect) and a ton of fodder skills (Heartbreak, Blank, Suppressing fire, Lead Shot, Gauss round, Ricochet) unless I’m missing somthing vital (Probably ammo) it looks very primitive

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HW design did lack a lot of cohesion on all jobs, but mch wasn't a lot of hard casts. Your combo starter was hard cast, as well as your dot and upkeep buff. Your second and third hits of your combo however were instant cast, and ammo made their proc chance 100% (it worked kinda like dancer with 50% to get combo steps), your burst as well was under rapid fire as a buff, which made everything instant cast 1.5s gcd. You basically then had a proc minigame at play, because you didn't need to use your combo in order if you had procs, so you could hold procs for movement/ buff windows to maximise damage/movement. For example you could go 1->2(instant)->1->3(instant)->2(instant)->3(instant), using ammo to give you the procs. The fact you had raging, hawkeye etc was quite annoying, but it did payoff in the end, as MCH at the time basically had a 3 min long rotation with your 3min wildfire being the highest burst in the game, but they could have easily been consolidated because they did have a fair amount of fluff (as did a lot of jobs).