6.0 Summoner: Thoughts on an Unsuccessful Rework After 1 Month of Gameplay

There's nothing stopping anyone from clearing savage as a Summoner other than themselves. In any case, that's more due to damage than anything else. Buff the numbers and suddenly you'll see all these high skilled raiders switch to Summoner. As for outside of savage? Summoner is about as common around here as Reaper. Double Reaper and double Summoner is an extremely common finding in trial/raid/alliance roulette. If savage raiders are upset that doesn't mean a job is unsuccessful or dead.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

There's nothing stopping anyone from clearing savage as a Summoner other than themselves. In any case, that's more due to damage than anything else. Buff the numbers and suddenly you'll see all these high skilled raiders switch to Summoner. As for outside of savage? Summoner is about as common around here as Reaper. Double Reaper and double Summoner is an extremely common finding in trial/raid/alliance roulette. If savage raiders are upset that doesn't mean a job is unsuccessful or dead.

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You can definitely clear Savage with SMN's current state but it's very blatant that RDM (the top rated pick atm, which makes sense) does everything SMN can do but better because it has more reliable utility and more DPS. If SMN got buffed to where it's above RDM then yes, you'll see more people clear Savage with SMN, or the pick rates become more balanced instead.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

It's almost as if there's a vocal minority of players who are unhappy with it.

Ask any random summoner in-game and they will tell you new summoner is a true summoner and a huge improvement over the WoW class it used to be.

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Summoner never played any more alike to a Warlock, Affliction spec or otherwise, than did a BLM -- which is to say, not to any significant degree beyond "They casted, they maintained DoT(s), and they could trigger at least one effect from or upon said DoT(s)."

In-game, the most common response I get to questions on SMN's new gameplay falls along the likes of "It's fine, I guess?" closely followed by "You mean the new hypermobile Earth, Wind, and Fire Mage with an animate emotional support plushie?"

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

You can definitely clear Savage with SMN's current state but it's very blatant that RDM (the top rated pick atm, which makes sense) does everything SMN can do but better because it has more reliable utility and more DPS. If SMN got buffed to where it's above RDM then yes, you'll see more people clear Savage with SMN, or the pick rates become more balanced instead.

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I mean...its always been that way with RDM though. They can spam rez so they are always heavily used in progression regardless of their DPS output.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

I mean...its always been that way with RDM though. They can spam rez so they are always heavily used in progression regardless of their DPS output.

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Well yeah, but why also have the only thing that makes it different from SMN? At least before, SMN has the incentive of being good for both progression because it also has good support that it can catch up with RDM and making up for it with the extra damage, while also being good for kills/speedruns because it has good enough DPS that it can catch up with BLM. Now SMN has nothing that makes it unique from BLM and RDM. That's the problem here.

In all scenarios, be it progression or kills/speedruns, SMN is just not the best pick.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Summoner never played any more alike to a Warlock, Affliction spec or otherwise, than did a BLM -- which is to say, not to any significant degree beyond "They casted, they maintained DoT(s), and they could trigger at least one effect from or upon said DoT(s)."

In-game, the most common response I get to questions on SMN's new gameplay falls along the likes of "It's fine, I guess?" closely followed by "You mean the new hypermobile Earth, Wind, and Fire Mage with an animate emotional support plushie?"

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Didn't you know having a pet and dots immediately makes it a warlock copy

I wouldn't be playing Summoner if it was a Warlock clone :( I do savage on my SMN because my group don't care about RDM being superior and respect my preference. I definitely would perform better on RDM however. The rework has potential but, and it isn,t just summoner, the Endwalker content was rushed and the dev team didn't have enough time to balance. You can just see the subtlety of Yoshida saying so when he does hear us out.

I just want Searing Light completely unlinked from Carbuncle.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

I said this before, too. Because it got reworked and people are trying it out. Obviously tons of people are going to be playing it.

But then you see how many people cleared with it in Savage and it's the lowest out of the 3 casters. It puts in perspective in how arguably unsuccessful this rework was.

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Again, just because isn't a job being favored for Savage clears, doesn't mean that it should be branded as unsuccessful, unless your parameters are just regarding Savage content, which is mostly a personal thing, as different players have different objectives. And to that, as far as I'm aware, SMN had (still have, arguably) potency issues and that factor alone might make people not opt for them on Savage. Potency numbers have little to do with the actual mechanical design of the job.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Again, just because isn't a job being favored for Savage clears, doesn't mean that it should be branded as unsuccessful, unless your parameters are just regarding Savage content, which is mostly a personal thing, as different players have different objectives. And to that, as far as I'm aware, SMN had (still have, arguably) potency issues and that factor alone might make people not opt for them on Savage. Potency numbers have little to do with the actual mechanical design of the job.

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I mean if we're going to talk about the mechanical design, a lot of credible people have voiced the issues of the rework's design in many threads and how it basically failed to fix most of its past issues aside from its thematic presentation. I think it's safe to say it's pretty unsuccessful in that part, too.