The promised crafting system of "HQ mats = HQ result"

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Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

If the system implemented was the system promised, this would not happen, which is my point.

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I read the post being referred to, and it in no way, shape or form PROMISES this is the system that will be put in place. In fact it clearly says that it's still in development and subject to change.

What you guys aren't keeping in mind was that under that original proposal from Yoshida, getting the HQ ingredients was going to be very difficult in the first place, hence guaranteeing the HQ finished product. Instead they went with a system where HQ ingredients are much easier to procure, and making an HQ finished product still has a very high likelihood.

Did they decide to change some aspects of the system while it was in development? Sure. So what? There's nothing to see here, move along.

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Originally Posted by Jamison

I read the post being referred to, and it in no way, shape or form PROMISES this is the system that will be put in place. In fact it clearly says that it's still in development and subject to change.

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The terms used to describe the HQ synthesis change were not "may" be guaranteed or "could" be guaranteed, but instead "are" guaranteed. I suppose you can read that creatively if you like, but the most charitable thing you could say about it is that is is misleading (and, importantly, was never addressed as erroneous).

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What you guys aren't keeping in mind was that under that original proposal from Yoshida, getting the HQ ingredients was going to be very difficult in the first place, hence guaranteeing the HQ finished product. Instead they went with a system where HQ ingredients are much easier to procure, and making an HQ finished product still has a very high likelihood.

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In what way are HQ ingredients "easier" to procure? Are you saying that the drop rate of base-level HQ mats was increased? Or perhaps that it is now easier to produce HQ middle-stage materials (e.g. ingots, lumber, yarn) from NQ ingredients than it was pre-patch?

"Difficulty" is subjective.

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Did they decide to change some aspects of the system while it was in development? Sure. So what?

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I would like to see Yoshida address why the HQ system has been changed to rely heavily on HQ materials without the previously mentioned 100% success rate that was supposed to accompany that.

I've yet to reach 1000 quality on anything that matters since the patch too. Mainly pre-patch i would hit it on the high level stat rings, most i get now is 80-90% HQ. It's because the abilities are so bland and cookie cutter and you can only equip so few of them, imo.

On another note, i hate how nearly impossible it is to stabilize an element using wait now. It's like the only way to do it now is with a brand. And you can't afford the dura loss on extended waits. Every once in a while it while stabilize itself or go chaotic as i progress the synth but that is very rare as well.

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Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

I suppose that we could debate crafting strategy, but given that the promised mechanic was that HQ mats = HQ result, discussing strategy is missing the point.

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I would contend that it is entirely the point. Under this system gear choices matter, materia choices matter, ability selection matters.

I'm not even going to debate the math on this anymore, because his point seemed obvious to me. If you can not see what Airget and I are trying tell you, it is your loss, not ours. *Advice* Reading is worthless without understanding.

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Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

If the system implemented was the system promised, this would not happen, which is my point.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

I have to add the disclaimer that this is content under development, so please treat it as such and know that certain terms may not be finalized. :)

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You obviously missed this part of the post you linked to in your OP. What you've made clear with this post is that you want an "I win" button to pop up when you input all HQ mats into the synthesis window. I'm sorry they didn't implement that for you (not really).

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Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

The terms used to describe the HQ synthesis change were not "may" be guaranteed or "could" be guaranteed, but instead "are" guaranteed. I suppose you can read that creatively if you like, but the most charitable thing you could say about it is that is is misleading (and, importantly, was never addressed as erroneous).

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(Points not quoted nicely because I’m posting from my phone.)

1) There’s a nice little disclaimer right at the top of the post: this content is under development and may not be finalized. This wasn’t the patch notes, this was a glimpse of the direction they were working towards. Attitudes like yours will only prevent them from sharing preliminary information with us in the future when we’ve been CLAMERING for them to communicate more on the direction the game is headed.

2) His post clearly says that under the plan-that-would-have-been, getting HQ ingredients would be “very difficult”. That’s a change that would have happened, but it didn’t. I never claimed they made it easier to get HQ mats… it’s (essentially) the same as it was before. They didn’t make it harder, which we’d all be griping about if that’s the direction things had gone.

3) We’ve traded a system that was “very difficult” to get the mats but guaranteed success for one where nothing in the system is “very difficult” but isn’t 100% guaranteed. There’s nothing wrong with that. What you wanted was both ways… easy mats and guaranteed success… and no offense, but that wasn’t ever going to happen. You want him to explain why a system in development changed before the final version? Because it did. There could be any number of reasons why it was decided this was better.

I really don’t understand why you are so longing for this system other than “that’s what the post said!”

lolurdoinitwrong.

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Originally Posted by mysterytaru

I hope your being sarcastic, otherwise.....your doin' it wrong.

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Yes, do it like me.

Spend half time doing it, the other half, it's her that should do it.
Sharing the pain :)

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Originally Posted by Cthulhu

I would contend that it is entirely the point. Under this system gear choices matter, materia choices matter, ability selection matters.

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You are arguing from the standpoint that you prefer the current system over the one that was outlined. That has nothing to do with the lack of followthrough on the system that was promised.

The earlier analogy about politicians is accurate: while it is true that politicians have no actual obligation to do what they said they would do, it is not somehow out-of-line to ask them why they didn't do what they said they would do.

Just for reemphasis: I am not at all interested in debating the merits of the current system over the one that was detailed in that post. I am specifically asking for an explanation as to why one thing was promised and a different thing was delivered. This is a question that speaks fundamentally to whether or not the development team intends to do what they say they will, which (given the frequent focus that this team places on "just wait for 2.0, it will be fixed then") is a very important question.

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You obviously missed this part of the post you linked to in your OP. What you've made clear with this post is that you want an "I win" button to pop up when you input all HQ mats into the synthesis window.

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Actually, I just want an explanation for why they didn't do what they said they would. To date, they have not even offered one.

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Originally Posted by Jamison

1) There’s a nice little disclaimer right at the top of the post: this content is under development and may not be finalized. This wasn’t the patch notes, this was a glimpse of the direction they were working towards.

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This paragraph can be applied equally to the entirety of planned 2.0 content. When your plan for resurrecting the game leans almost entirely on "here is all the cool stuff we are going to do," backtracking on your planned changes (and extremely significant ones, at that) without so much as an explanation is kind of a big deal.

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2) His post clearly says that under the plan-that-would-have-been, getting HQ ingredients would be “very difficult”. That’s a change that would have happened, but it didn’t. I never claimed they made it easier to get HQ mats… it’s (essentially) the same as it was before.

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Notwithstanding the fact that you have yet to support the claim that HQs are equal/easier to produce than before, it's irrelevant. Fundamentally, the best you can argue is that that is yet another unexplained change to the roadmap that was laid out.

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What you wanted was both ways… easy mats and guaranteed success… and no offense, but that wasn’t ever going to happen.

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I never said what system I personally wanted. In fact, I have specifically NOT said anything of the sort.

I asked if the system that was detailed by Yoshida is still in line to be implemented, and if not, for an explanation as to why said system was scrapped.

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Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

Your post is incorrect.

Undyed Woolen Cloth is an R45 synth. On my R50 WVR, exclusively using HQ materials (and therefore starting at 500 quality), I have yet to reach 1000 quality (i.e. 100% HQ rate) a single time. (In fact, I have yet to reach 1000 quality on any synth ever, though I will say that I don't exactly spend a lot of time trying to make HQ synths of extremely low level recipes.)

You should also keep in mind that this is while using abilities from my R50 CRP and R36 ALC. I think it is completely fair to say that unless a synth is far below your level, reaching 1000 quality with the abilities from your own class is virtually impossible. You need to have a fairly broad variety of high level DoH (in conjunction with full HQ mats) to consistently break 90% HQ rate on anything closer than 10 levels below you.

If you have a strategy for consistently reaching 1000 quality on a synth within 10 levels of you, I look forward to hearing it.

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How could my post be incorrect?... Its from personal experience. Are you telling me that I've never gotten nearly 500 quality (using only NQ mats and 492 to exact) on a recipe 4 levels over my current level? I consistent break 85% on any craft 4-5 levels over mine. So again, maybe you are using the wrong abilities.

Just an fyi, I use Culmination, Manipulation, Fit for Kings, Grand Design, and the Brand of the element in use. I always start with Culmination -> Rapid -> Manipulation -> Fit for Kings on the next white orb -> Quality until durability is under 9 -> Grand Design and the Brand if the element goes unstable.

That is without the more powerful durability and progress abilities, so I would imagine it would be even easier if you had those.