The Single Most powerful *thing* in FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by Connor

Pretty sure it’d be something stupid like Godbert or Julyan I’m afraid, lol. Or - ugh - Zenos * sick face emoji * lol

Wouldn’t Dynamis-Powered Meteion be a serious contender? It practically destroyed an entire universe by causing The Final Days, since based on what Pupu says during the Hildibrand quests even distant planets were heavily affected. I can’t think of any other entity in FFXIV that has power/influence on such a cosmic scale (again, besides something stupid like Godbert or Tataru lol).

Though, part of that reach was because Meteion isn’t a single entity but a collective spread across the cosmos, so it’s not exactly the ‘single most powerful entity’ when it’s abilities are based on a shared/collective consciousness

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Hate to say it, but Zenos - whilst definitely not top of the list - probably would be on the list.

I mean, in that final dual with him he was using Shinryu attacks, arguably even more effectively than Shinryu itself did (he was essentially Shinryu in Garlean form). And thanks to that, he almost killed the Warrior of Light - and probably would've if not for the residual dynamis heals we were able to access during the fight.

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Originally Posted by Connor

Pretty sure it’d be something stupid like Godbert or Julyan I’m afraid, lol. Or - ugh - Zenos * sick face emoji * lol

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If you finished the questline you know they are not as invulnerable as they appear. They do still have a weakness. And although it might be hard to trigger that weakness, its surely not impossible.

Zenos on that is diffirent since he used the power through a catalist (himself) and charged it with some strong beings. Its not that diffirent to how ultima was being casted. And that also instantly makes a clear limit.

Zenos had only 1 desire to keep himself alive, which if that desire was gone (you died), he would instantly die and be absorbed through dynamis. Dynamis is on that (because of being pure power) excessively strong. But it suffers from 1 weakness: hope is enough to charge up dynamis (and therefor take it away). You only need 1 thing strong enough (similar to meteon) to already weaken her enough.

The problem is we dont know what zodiark would do when completed. It surely takes all the aether away from the planet, but we dont know what it will do in space. Zodiark was powerfull enough to block the effects from dynamis even in an incompleted state. But weak at the other aether.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

The problem is we dont know what zodiark would do when completed. It surely takes all the aether away from the planet, but we dont know what it will do in space. Zodiark was powerfull enough to block the effects from dynamis even in an incompleted state. But weak at the other aether.

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I didn’t actually consider this but it’s definitely a good point. Zodiark was conceived as a being powerful enough to revert the final days and/or restore the ‘world’ to its original state. While they were only thinking of their own ‘star’, surely Zodiark would need power that can stretch across the cosmos (at least to some extent) to actually be able to achieve these goals? If it was fully awakened then, couldn’t it (assumedly) collapse and re-arranged the universe to see its goals to fruition?

As you say though, biggest weakness is that of any primal, but probably multiplied by 10 because of the size/scope of its abilities. Tempering nearby planets, requiring enormous amounts of aether to materialise, being tied to the consciousness of the Summoners (i.e if they forget their purpose so does Zodiark, or at least I think that’s how it worked).

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Originally Posted by Connor

I didn’t actually consider this but it’s definitely a good point. Zodiark was conceived as a being powerful enough to revert the final days and/or restore the ‘world’ to its original state. While they were only thinking of their own ‘star’, surely Zodiark would need power that can stretch across the cosmos (at least to some extent) to actually be able to achieve these goals? If it was fully awakened then, couldn’t it (assumedly) collapse and re-arranged the universe to see its goals to fruition?

As you say though, biggest weakness is that of any primal, but probably multiplied by 10 because of the size/scope of its abilities. Tempering nearby planets, requiring enormous amounts of aether to materialise, being tied to the consciousness of the Summoners (i.e if they forget their purpose so does Zodiark, or at least I think that’s how it worked).

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Zodiark's first summoning created a shield to prevent the Final Days from continuing. The second repaired and reseeded Etheirys, and only Etheirys. The moons of course being considered part of Etheirys for practical purposes, them being part of the same system. The rest of the universe (insofar as we are aware, anyway) was left a desolate wasteland by the Endsong continuing uninterrupted.

Zodiark's purpose was set by a combination of the intent when he was summoned and the will of the many souls within him. This is why he continued to function in his original role as a protector even after losing his heart and all of his summoners being dead.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

The problem is we dont know what zodiark would do when completed. It surely takes all the aether away from the planet, but we dont know what it will do in space. Zodiark was powerfull enough to block the effects from dynamis even in an incompleted state. But weak at the other aether.

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We're told Zodiark did not siphon aether from the planet. He instead utilized the aether of the ancient souls within him, with the caveat being he would not completely drain them. This was possible due to the sheer volume of aether made available to him by those sacrificed. He could draw from them without tapping into their spiritual aether, which meant their souls weren't at risk of erasure.

Of note, I may direct people for a moment to the in-game Zodiark fight. It's a poor showing to be sure, but we're dealing with an incomplete Zodiark under the control of someone who A.) is completely insane; and B.) has zero experience piloting a primal. It's also important to keep in mind the dark primal was still channeling vast quantities of aether to maintain the shield around Etheirys even as Fandaniel forced him to fight the WoL. To add to this, we're informed the souls inside of Zodiark were fighting back against Fandaniel that whole time. Odds are good what we saw was a fraction of a fraction of what he could do if whole and properly directed. If nothing else, we are shown that he possesses the capacity for some fantastically destructive magic and weaponized creation. I'd wager he very well might be in the running for the most powerful thing overall. Even fragmented, his raw aether levels alone are well past the point of incomprehensibility.

In terms of raw power it's obviously Zodiark. He was made to be the Ancients' collective concept of God. And every time he's been beaten, it's due to having his power reduced / being attacked with attacks conceptually created to beat god. Kind of like the Rune of Death and the Elden Beast in Elden Ring. Something something for the World of Man to mean anything Man must steer it something something Gaius, Thordan, and Venat beliefs etc.

In terms of actual power, it's still Alexander. Turns out, time travel within the setting is instrumental in us winning. Both in SHB and in EW. It's a power that apparently the Ascians did not possess or think to try to attempt. And apparently no other civilizations out in space either. If Alexander has the knowledge and will to, he can go back in time and kill any of the most powerful things as fledglings. Something something, cop out answer. Something something, blame the writers not me.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

In terms of actual power, it's still Alexander. Turns out, time travel within the setting is instrumental in us winning. Both in SHB and in EW. It's a power that apparently the Ascians did not possess or think to try to attempt. And apparently no other civilizations out in space either. If Alexander has the knowledge and will to, he can go back in time and kill any of the most powerful things as fledglings. Something something, cop out answer. Something something, blame the writers not me.

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Alexander was most certainly the only thing in the setting capable of reliably and precisely enacting time travel, yeah. Elidibus only knew where to send the WoL because of the bootstrap paradox, and Venat managing to preserve the timeline required both knowledge from the future and seemingly a tremendous amount of sheer luck. Tacocat's time travel shenanigans didn't go as planned even with the Crystal Tower and technology derived from Alexander and Omega at his disposal, although it worked out in the end.

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Originally Posted by Connor

Wouldn’t Dynamis-Powered Meteion be a serious contender? It practically destroyed an entire universe by causing The Final Days, since based on what Pupu says during the Hildibrand quests even distant planets were heavily affected. I can’t think of any other entity in FFXIV that has power/influence on such a cosmic scale (again, besides something stupid like Godbert or Tataru lol).

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As I mentioned, I don't know if that actually counts if we're talking raw 'strongest thing around'. Not only is there the hive mind/gestalt fused entity situation to dissect, but Meteion caused all that destruction by way of being the only thing using dynamis in the way she was, which it turns out basically nothing else in the universe could handle. In Pokemon terms, that'd be like crediting Tyranitar as an objectively stronger Pokemon than Mewtwo because it's got a type advantage.

(for curious non-Pokemon-knowers: Tyranitar is objectively weaker than Mewtwo in nearly every way, but has occasionally been a check to it competitively for exactly that type advantage situation.)

I think that while Endwalker introduces a lot of potential new contenders, none of them necessarily win 'strongest thing ever in the game setting'; the contenders are still probably Midgardsormr, pre-sundering Zodiark, and Alexander from left field. Endwalker does influence 'strongest thing in the game setting right now', but mostly by knocking contenders out: there's no Zodiark or Hydaelyn, every single Ancient/Ascian is off the table (although I don't think they were ever winning), Omega's now confirmably depowered in a similar way to Midgardsormr and is shown to be just one of a mechanized army. Again, Zeromus might be winning the 'strongest right now' contest, and we probably shouldn't count the Twelve out just yet, but the all-time gold trophy probably belongs to the same thing... whatever that thing is.

EDIT: For what it's worth, the Hildibrand revelations likely do put Godbert and Hildibrand much higher than we would've estimated them previously, but I don't think they're capable of reaching the top ten. They're probably in, like, the thirties somewhere; above all the regular sundered humans, below everything that's in some way more.

The WoL, As no matter how powerful a foe is, our ''plot shield'' triggers and we still win in the end.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

The WoL, As no matter how powerful a foe is, our ''plot shield'' triggers and we still win in the end.

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Actually, that isn't 100% true. Zenos kicked the Warrior of Light's backside several times. I mean, yeah 'we' beat him in the end, though it took a while - and the final victory, when it came, very nearly came at the cost of the Warrior of Light's life.

Could also mention Ran'jit - he defeated the WoL a few times too.

The WoL is one of the few people in the game with a personal loss count higher than one, actually. It's basically the WoL, Zenos, Ran'jit, Lahabrea, Fandaniel (no matter if you're counting Hermes, Amon, or both), Ysayle, and Nidhogg, plus Rhitatyn, Livia, and Edda if you count 'now they're undead' as the same record. Which sounds like a lot of people, but then you remember that we're a good ways into a triple-digit character count.

Really, the WoL's main advantage is that they're the only person in this entire universe that knows how to make and maintain friendships. On an individual level the WoL is just a really strong regular dude, their main strength comes from the fact that they're rarely ever fighting on an individual level, they're always inviting a bunch of conveniently nearby allies!

...which incidentally means that, if anyone can make a case that one of the Strongest Things In The Setting was an alliance raid enemy, I think they might win this debate by definition: for all that we can talk up Midgardsormr, it only took eight players to beat him in O10.