Reimbursement for Lost Tomes due to Wrongful use of Kick

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

You can post chat logs so long as you black out names. People do it all the time here with no repercussions.

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I've been on some forums where even that's been considered a callout due to even a minimal number of people able to catch that relevance. Thank you for the input.

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Originally Posted by Alklios

Posting chat logs of other players on public forums is a direct call out and is violation of ToS. I am not giving names to demonize others.

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If you want any sort of realistic player feedback on your situation you'll need to provide some demonstrable evidence of wrongdoing.

Even if you can - the fact that you got into an argument is not something that SE, the Devs, or any rando on these boards can arbitrate for you.
There is no wronged party in this case unless you were targeted specifically and abused, in which case I'd report the players - the 'lost' tomes would be the last thing I'd be worrying about.

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Originally Posted by Alklios

I'm seeing this quite often, this is referred to as the "False Cause Fallacy", or immediately coming to conclusion that correlation equals causation. A wrongful kick is a wrongful kick regardless of how often it happens.

Despite how many disagreements you get in with someone, that is still no license to completely deny them the work that they have done with you. A wrongful kick is a wrongful kick no matter -how much- you dislike someone. And I want Square to have an intervention to reimburse lost progress to a meta line of thought, which I'm seeing here, that disagreements are congruent to harassment. A paid service needs to provide protection or insurance against player abuse.

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I’m sorry, but if you’re disruptive enough in a run for someone in the party to dismiss you—and if this happens repeatedly, which your opening post implies—the issue does not lie with others. No matter how many times you try to insist otherwise. The party in question saw it more prudent to remove you than to keep you. Deal with it; report if you will lose that much sleep over it; and then move on. Demanding compensation isn’t going to get you anywhere—you’re demanding something you didn’t earn.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I’m sorry, but if you’re disruptive enough in a run for someone in the party to dismiss you—and if this happens repeatedly, which your opening post implies—the issue does not lie with others. No matter how many times you try to insist otherwise. The party in question saw it more prudent to remove you than to keep you. Deal with it; report if you will lose that much sleep over it; and then move on. Demanding compensation isn’t going to get you anywhere—you’re demanding something you didn’t earn.

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I think I did earn the 2/3 bosses completed at least in that specific example.

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Originally Posted by Alklios

I'm seeing this quite often, this is referred to as the "False Cause Fallacy", or immediately coming to conclusion that correlation equals causation. A wrongful kick is a wrongful kick regardless of how often it happens.

Despite how many disagreements you get in with someone, that is still no license to completely deny them the work that they have done with you. A wrongful kick is a wrongful kick no matter -how much- you dislike someone. And I want Square to have an intervention to reimburse lost progress to a meta line of thought, which I'm seeing here, that disagreements are congruent to harassment. A paid service needs to provide protection or insurance against player abuse.

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But... that's the point we are all trying to make. Just because you *say* it is wrongful, that doesn't mean it's wrongful. What is your definition of harassment? SE's definition of harassment is doing anything that impedes other players' fun in the game. That might mean giving people unwanted advice. Telling them how to play their jobs. Calling them out. Saying, "Run to A when B happens" is fine, but telling BLM over there to learn how to play his job right and calling him out is not. That is, for all intents and purposes, harassment. This is not WoW. You cannot tell people to git gud, you cannot tell them to L2P, and you cannot tell them they're pulling shit numbers. That isn't how this community works.

With that being said, reexamine your actions and what you said to these people that resulted in getting kicked. If it's happening repeatedly, there's a 99.9999% chance it isn't wrongful at all, and that's where your argument is falling flat.

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Originally Posted by Alklios

I think I did earn the 2/3 bosses completed at least in that specific example.

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Tomestones aren’t given until you complete the dungeon—which you did not do. Therefore, in the eyes of the GMs, you earned nothing.

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Originally Posted by Alklios

I think I did earn the 2/3 bosses completed at least in that specific example.

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Completion bonuses are for killing the last boss. You did not kill the last boss, so you did not earn a completion bonus. You lost nothing earned. Its why someone can join a duty in progress just before or even during the final boss and still get full rewards.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

If you want any sort of realistic player feedback on your situation you'll need to provide some demonstrable evidence of wrongdoing.

Even if you can - the fact that you got into an argument is not something that SE, the Devs, or any rando on these boards can arbitrate for you.
There is no wronged party in this case unless you were targeted specifically and abused, in which case I'd report the players - the 'lost' tomes would be the last thing I'd be worrying about.

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I thought it was odd that the GM was so adamant about that justice will be served to take action against them. Contrarily what I care about is my lost progress, not seeing just deserts served. Justice vs. revenge I suppose. The report made to to stimulate investigation that could view the authenticity of my request for reimbursement.

Contrary to what so many players are suggesting on this feed, I'm not seeking validation/feedback for what was right or wrong for me to do. The GM's decide that, not players.

I was heavily encouraged to make this suggestion on this forum and see it was a mistake to even bring up my experiences, for that I will apologize. Players are more obsessed with a witch hunt for fault rather than the thesis.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Completion bonuses are for killing the last boss. You did not kill the last boss, so you did not earn a completion bonus. You lost nothing earned. Its why someone can join a duty in progress just before or even during the final boss and still get full rewards.

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2/3 of the boss isn't part of the completion bonus.

Expert roulette is 90 phanta total. 40 dungeon + 50 completion bonus.

When you slay a boss you see yourself receiving goetia and phantasmagoria. That reward should be yours, and kept. But it is not. A kick deletes all that progress -in addition- to denying you completion bonus as mentioned a few times in this thread.

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Originally Posted by WalxAtNite

But... that's the point we are all trying to make. Just because you *say* it is wrongful, that doesn't mean it's wrongful. What is your definition of harassment? SE's definition of harassment is doing anything that impedes other players' fun in the game. That might mean giving people unwanted advice. Telling them how to play their jobs. Calling them out. Saying, "Run to A when B happens" is fine, but telling BLM over there to learn how to play his job right and calling him out is not. That is, for all intents and purposes, harassment. This is not WoW. You cannot tell people to git gud, you cannot tell them to L2P, and you cannot tell them they're pulling shit numbers. That isn't how this community works.

With that being said, reexamine your actions and what you said to these people that resulted in getting kicked. If it's happening repeatedly, there's a 99.9999% chance it isn't wrongful at all, and that's where your argument is falling flat.

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That's another hard False Cause fallacy that wouldn't stand up in a debate, and once again my argument is not that one was wrongfully kicked. Please refer to the thread title.