Where is the "never before seen content"?

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Most people get that, the issue is "We are releasing something never been seen in a MMO" or whatever the claim is, and it is just a reskin what you did before, with nothing new about it. At some point it feels like this:
https://youtu.be/ddUrZlnr3NI?t=537
This is why over-hype is so dangerous. What is going to happen in the distant future if this becomes more common? over-hype after over-hype, after over-hype? It may lead to a new game crash if things keep getting worse and down this road.

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That quote I cant comment on. He should not have said that honestly. PR speak is odd and misleading. It's also why I dont get hype cause nothing lives up to hype in my experience. But being a sonic fan you tend to learn quick to never hype anything. Honestly other than that I don't know what they could add. Cause the stuff they do take chances at fails. So it's a no win situation honestly.

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Originally Posted by ko_

That quote I cant comment on. He should not have said that honestly. PR speak is odd and misleading. It's also why I dont get hype cause nothing lives up to hype in my experience. But being a sonic fan you tend to learn quick to never hype anything. Honestly other than that I don't know what they could add. Cause the stuff they do take chances at fails. So it's a no win situation honestly.

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That is the point of that part of my post, yes. If you are going to say something like that you better be SURE it can be delivered, otherwise you are doing more harm then helping, like the vid points out that I linked there.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Why shouldn't it? It should be less because there's stuff players don't want to do? There's players that can play this game like a job and do "everything?" No 'grinds' are a result of something called artifical scarcity. It's to enlongate the time you invest into a game that incorporates it. The relics have always been meaningless for progression. Up until it's a few months before the next expansion. Then they become BiS. When it happened sooner than that, raiders complained their time spent in raids, learning the fights, was valued little as the relics became BiS 'too soon.'

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And that very enlogated grind hasn't existed in Stormblood, which is likely a factor in the complaints. The relics have never been so meaningless they're literally irrelevant before even being released. Previously, they at least served as a potential stepping stone in lieu of a tome weapon, especially for alt jobs. Come 4.36, they have a month, less if they're i365 instead of i370. In regards to the patch, you shouldn't have scarcely little to do for weeks after a major patch. Unless you were progging Ultimate, 4.3 offered nothing with any sort of longevity because the devs opted to shift HoH's release to six weeks thereafter.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

I'm not being obtuse. I was saying, in not quite so many words, I don't see how you can make this claim when patches are not even that frequent. So to say there is, apparently, new content enough to keep your subscription going, or lasts long enough to keep that subscription going, I don't understand the complaints being made about the contents' release or longevity. It's one or the other; it doesn't suddenly change just to suit a part of another argument.

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First, those complaints are not mutually exclusive. Content can both be delayed and lack longevity. Regardless, my point is these staggered releases feel more like a blatant attempt to incentivize people to remain subbed. They weren't a thing until recently, which is what has contributed to very hollowed releases.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Please pre-emptively provide links to your sources for such claims. Otherwise, I shall take this as a personal claim, perhaps along with concurring agreements with people you personally keep in touch with.

Still, this is opinion, changing from person to person. I doubt either of us are in a job that can sit back, unbiased and rate the expansions like a professional, basing on music score, battles, story, etc.

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There's a thread on the front page discussing this very subject. Virtually every response criticises Stormblood's story; citing Heavenswards superior.

And I never argued it wasn't subjective. You claimed the story has only improved. Apparently, that opinion isn't shared.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

I'm just being realistic. You literally cannot please everyone all of the time. People will leave, sometimes for something not even the fault of the game. It's not being dismissive. I can't draw a comparison to WoW, never touched it, so I don't know what you're trying to get across to me with that. Feedback and criticism is crucial, agreed, but listening to all of it is folly and may incur unfavorable outcomes (example: want faster content cycle or just more stuff per content cycle; need more people to do this; money doesn't grow on trees and something like increase sub fee to cover costs - are players still happy? Probably not, but hey! Their demands were heeded, that's all that matters). Linking general active players to simply what the content cycles is dangerous and probably misleading (please follow my reasoning). I can't recall what games came out during the span of Heavensward (maybe getting into Warframe near the end of Heavensward? Holy shit The War Within). I know from the start of Stormblood, Resident Evil 7, Fate Grand Order, Granblue, Monster Hunter World, Super Mario Odyssey, Black Desert Online releasing Lahn and constant events, Warframe releasing a new story arch after 2 years (worth it) that have utterly obliterated mine and my raid members' times. Has nothing to do with XIV's patch cycle, we're just gamers being gamers.

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Heavenswards competed with Call of Duty: Black Ops, Fall out 4, The Witcher 3 DLC, Metal Gear: The Phantom Pain and Star Wars: Battlefront. Suffice it to say, this excuse isn't going to fly.

Regardless, I am not attributing people's departure entirely to Stomblood's, but it's disingenuous not to notice a trend, especially when the frequency of complaints have been higher. My comparison with WoW is the new expansion will only pull more players away from FFXIV considering patches before an expansion release are notorious for being lengthily droughts. That isn't a good sign for the game going into 5.0, though we'll see if the devs manage to come up with something since Ultimate has been put on hiatus. It's far from unrealistic to criticise a game when it lacks new content. Stormblood has largely relied on a copy/paste formula, which does contribute to those aforementioned complaints. While no one should expect to be entertained indefinitely, they shouldn't expect to have whole patches with virtually nothing to offer them unless they happen to enjoy a very niche activity.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Well, that is embarrassing.

So you'd rather have no content for those that enjoy PvP. PvP additions are already fairly rare, with job balancing being the most frequently done things to the mode.

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I would rather they either find something that finally works or focus elsewhere. They keep prattling on about E-Sports when they can't even get consistent queues; and haven't for three years. There comes a point where you need to accept people just aren't interested. The updates may be infrequent, but they do divert significant resources away from other things. I sincerely doubt Rival Wings didn't necessity substantial amount of work—for a mode that saw two weeks worth of activity, approximately.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Yes, because while I and others may be aware of what has and hasn't been included, others will absolutely take conversations at face value and then spread misinformation. I'll keep to my being nitpickiness. (And Sephirot; he dropped right in 3.2).

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I said between 3.0 and 3.2, thus Sephirot wouldn't factor into that equation since he released during 3.2. Put simply, the rough patch for Heavensward was 3.1 due to how poorly received LoV and Diadem were.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

How quickly people forget about Final Fantasxy XIV 1.0. It's like this game didn't almost completely fail, got saved and follows a model that continues to prove to be successful.

EDIT:
Click the link and learn a bit of the history of the game.

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It failed because the director at the time tried to make the game like a clone of XI, but didn't fully capture what made FFXI fun and exciting. You don't clone a game after another game, but instead get inspiration from it and model the game after it but in a more modern and convenient feel. 1.0 might not have been perfect, BUT it at least TRIED to be a game that players who enjoyed FFXI could enjoy. 1.0 had amazing music, nice backgrounds and leves felt fun compared to the meh we have now. That's the FFXIV I fell in love with! Not the Bland artifical feel that 2.0 onwards represents.


I will admit, Yoshi-Pees did save the game with 2.0, however, the story was bland as sh*t and felt really sluggish with no real feeling. Kinda like a copy paste of the old mixed with new but felt artificial. And 3.0 onwards followed the same formula Yoshi-Peeses set from 2.0 with no real diversity, no big changes for the overall experience and old content was repackaged as new but in reality it was just old sh*t disguised as new sh*t with a repetitive formula and lackluster progression and little to no world dynamics that makes exploration more exciting. That's not how to make a game.



And for you, Junsei, as well as the other white knights who consistently defend what the game has become and will continue to be, to say it proves successful shows that you are fine with the lackluster and repetitiveness and that you apparently play with a blindfold on. It's sad to me, but then again it's your opinion and unfortunately I have to accept that. If you are fine with what the game is and what it is continuing to be with no signs of change at all, then more power to you and the other white knights, but for me and many others, we deserve a game AND a director who will bring change to the game and make it more exciting and non predictable, and not some WoW clone, but it's own standalone game that is WORTHY of the title: Final Fantasy!




/2 cents

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

First, those complaints are not mutually exclusive. Content can both be delayed and lack longevity. Regardless, my point is these staggered releases feel more like a blatant attempt to incentivize people to remain subbed. They weren't a thing until recently, which is what has contributed to very hollowed releases.

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agreed, I find it insulting they are pulling this.

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Originally Posted by Usho

It failed because the director at the time tried to make the game like a clone of XI, but didn't fully capture what made FFXI fun and exciting. You don't clone a game after another game, but instead get inspiration from it and model the game after it but in a more modern and convenient feel. 1.0 might not have been perfect, BUT it at least TRIED to be a game that players who enjoyed FFXI could enjoy. 1.0 had amazing music, nice backgrounds and leves felt fun compared to the meh we have now. That's the FFXIV I fell in love with! Not the Bland artifical feel that 2.0 onwards represents.


I will admit, Yoshi-Pees did save the game with 2.0, however, the story was bland as sh*t and felt really sluggish with no real feeling. Kinda like a copy paste of the old mixed with new but felt artificial. And 3.0 onwards followed the same formula Yoshi-Peeses set from 2.0 with no real diversity, no big changes for the overall experience and old content was repackaged as new but in reality it was just old sh*t disguised as new sh*t with a repetitive formula and lackluster progression and little to no world dynamics that makes exploration more exciting. That's not how to make a game.



And for you, Junsei, as well as the other white knights who consistently defend what the game has become and will continue to be, to say it proves successful shows that you are fine with the lackluster and repetitiveness and that you apparently play with a blindfold on. It's sad to me, but then again it's your opinion and unfortunately I have to accept that. If you are fine with what the game is and what it is continuing to be with no signs of change at all, then more power to you and the other white knights, but for me and many others, we deserve a game AND a director who will bring change to the game and make it more exciting and non predictable, and not some WoW clone, but it's own standalone game that is WORTHY of the title: Final Fantasy!




/2 cents

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I disagree, and that link explains why, basically, too much effort in graphics and no communication between the departments when it was being put together, then was rushed out. They where trying to stray away from FFXI as much as possible, that is why they did not have jobs and the "cross ability" system to "invent your own jobs".

To Usho. I dont want to defend the game but I do want to ask what can they change without one losing the bottom line and two what do they change that people will like? Cause they have done things to try to shake the game but none of the stick. And lets be real. Unless they find another way to do it. Tombstones are never going away, the way patches come out aren't either. And why should they? It's set up in such a way that it not only works but also doesn't kill the dev team. Everyone says they want change. But no one thinks of realistic changes that can actually happen. Cause no game flat out changes 90% of what it is cause people get bored.

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Originally Posted by ko_

To Usho. I dont want to defend the game but I do want to ask what can they change without one losing the bottom line and two what do they change that people will like? Cause they have done things to try to shake the game but none of the stick. And keys be real. Unless they find another way to do it. Tombstones are never going away, the way patches come out aren't either. And why should they? It's set up in such a way that it not only works but also doesn't kill the dev team. Everyone says they want change. But no one thinks of realistic changes that can actually happen. Cause no game flat out changes 90% of what it is cause people get bored.

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Name a SINGLE game that copy/pastes itself to this extent. Also FFXIV never " Cause they have done things to try to shake the game but none of the stick" The only thing that comes CLOSE to doing this was diadem and it was not even main line content, but something to do on the side to act as "catch up content"

The only thing I can think of that gets closest to FFXIV's copy/paste progression is sports games and pokemon, and even those do things to change things to an extent. Pokemon you get balancing of typing, new types come out every once in a while, how you go about collecting the 8 badges and elite 4 is done differently and presented differently.

Tomestones do not need to go away, but the 450 cap per week for one job does.

They need to do more then chop up patches into more minipatches in a desperate attempt to keep people subbed though. FFXIV goes WAY overboard with its artificial extending the little content they give out.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Name a SINGLE game that copy/pastes itself to this extent. Also FFXIV never " Cause they have done things to try to shake the game but none of the stick" The only thing that comes CLOSE to doing this was diadem and it was not even main line content, but something to do on the side to act as "catch up content"

The only thing I can think of that gets closest to FFXIV's copy/paste progression is sports games and pokemon, and even those do things to change things to an extent. Pokemon you get balancing of typing, new types come out every once in a while, how you go about collecting the 8 badges and elite 4 is done differently and presented differently.

Tomestones do not need to go away, but the 450 cap per week for one job does.

They need to do more then chop up patches into more minipatches in a desperate attempt to keep people subbed though.

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Street fighter, mega man, wow, tera online, sonic the hedgehog wait. He just makes bad games never mind on sonic. The list is bigger. This isn't a new problem. 80% of most games have this issue with people. And it's more than just dia where xiv tried to break the mode. Deep dungeon was new content. So was eureka. Lords of V was one too. My point is and was we can all bitxh about how things got boring. But if that's all people do while throwing insults at other people who disagree then we'll go NOWHERE. You mention the cap needs to go. How do you fix it then so its balanced? I mean I get why it's there but I dont see how they can take it away and not have people rush to get em all in one day.

To add to my point know what they should do? SE needs to shop around and see what they can do. What do I mean? PTS where they tryout new things there and see the results, instead of throwing things at the wall seeing what sticks or in their case what doesn't. The sad thing is whatever they do it's been done before so finding something that'll feel fresh is alot harder than it is. It's easy to complain. It's hard to find something your base can agree on. If it was easy then more companies would do it.

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Originally Posted by ko_

Street fighter, mega man, wow, tera online, sonic the hedgehog wait. He just makes bad games never mind on sonic. The list is bigger. This isn't a new problem. 80% of most games have this issue with people. And it's more than just dia where xiv tried to break the mode. Deep dungeon was new content. So was eureka. Lords of V was one too. My point is and was we can all bitxh about how things got boring. But if that's all people do while throwing insults at other people who disagree then we'll go NOWHERE. You mention the cap needs to go. How do you fix it then so its balanced? I mean I get why it's there but I dont see how they can take it away and not have people rush to get em all in one day.

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I am talking about the mainstream content, the main stuff you do, LoV failed because it failed to be interesting, I think the FFXI version had more appeal to it then LoV. Eureka is simply fate grinding, that is not new, it has no content outside it. Eureka was not "trying something new" Eureka was trying to pass a half bake, low funded idea and hoping people would like it, even then it is not the mainsteam content I was trying to refer to. All this is side content, they did NOTHING to deviate from the copy/paste of the main content. As for sonic games? least ones I played? that was not reskined, how you did things was different, even from sonic 1, to sonic 2, to sonic 3, and all of them was enhanced by sonic and knuckles. WoW never took a complete expansion of fights, and reskined them. I had to really understand some of the zones and do them a few times before getting it. a lot of FFXIV outside extreme and savage, if you played FFXIV before, you could blind clear 1/1 the newer stuff.

I would not know anything about tera.

What would you rather have people unsub and not try to warn development anything? I am only here cuz I care about the people I friended here, I am actually not subbed and I am getting tired of hearing how they keep copy/paste, like even HoH, all that is, is easy mode palace of the dead, and somehow made it more boring by making 21-29 spam feel boring, and you have to do this to access 31+, palace of the dead never gated you that long before moving up, maybe repeating floors once or twice to move up to the next section.

Also there has been wonderful ideas on these forums here and there that SE simply ignores.

Finally why do you take what I said to extremes? I never said COMPLETELY remove the cap, I said "but the 450 cap per week for one job does." What this means is people need freedom to gear up more then one job or at least gear up more then one role. nice game log in once a day for 5 days to do a 20 minute dungeon to "give casual progression, exciting.....

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I do not think it was ever seen before, reskining the original expansion twice while repeating a treadmill every 2 months? or so for years. I guess he meant that.

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I want to go back to this, I am sure this is the real meaning of "never before seen" comments Yoshi-P tried to make