Dev blog: New Feast rewards

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aviars

SE is perfectly fine with rewarding people for having talent/skill

Yeah sure, "skill and talent"
Completly disregarding the fact that a lot of people in the top 100 got a terrible winrate but just had that much time on their hands to pour into the feast and managed to rank only thanks to the amount of matches they played.
If there was a finite numbers ot matches each season I would be inclined to agree about being skill based (although if you're going with a pld/whm combo not that much skill is involved) but right now giving these for only 100 people regardless of how crowded some datacenters are it's just more a game of who got more time to sink into this. And if you're not among the 100 that had that much time you just wasted yours.

So yeah, with all the raid content getting insanely easier once irrelvant and gear being even craftable I don't see why it's such a big deal for irrelevant pvp reward to be kept completly locked out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crescents

Okay you're comparing PvE content with competitive content. theres no clearly structured "winners" in raid tiers you are comparing two totally different types of content. taking the lone wolf coat or the hellhound mount and putting it in the achievement store is saying "hey remember how you competed to be top 100? yeah we're just giving those away because people are whining on the forums" because when it was released it was told to everyone at the same time "hey you can compete in this new pvp season and win this!" its not the rest of our fault you chose not to compete. You can go back to Alexander savage and get the same rewards not but albeit easier you're still clearing the same content. Which is why I'd be okay with with it being available for wolf collars since it's still competing in ranked pvp.

Fanfest outfits arent comparable, you cant compare spending 18$ to winning a competition, although I still think the tattoo is an accurate comparison both are a reward for taking part in certain content neither should be widely distributed.

If you're so annoyed with how little these rewards are seen compete this season and then you can see the mount everyday, they competed, they earned these rewards its not their fault you chose not to compete, also how can you compare garo of all things to RANKED pvp You could maybe make these arguments for casual pvp, but im sorry we shouldnt be giving out ranked PvP rewards for anything but taking part in ranked PvP SE already gives into people too much letting them get anything without effort simply for waiting I hope they dont do it for this and I dont think they will.

And im sorry, but you just come off really entitled that you want something other people worked hard for because you think you deserve it? it's a nice mount sure but its meant to signify a win over hundreds of other people how would you feel if you worked really hard for something and someone complained on the forums and was given something that took you months of play 5+ hours a day and unbelievable amounts of stress just because they wanted it?

THANK YOU.

ok lets go point by point though this again.

'Okay you're comparing PvE content with competitive content. theres no clearly structured "winners" in raid tiers you are comparing two totally different types of content'

so by your logic SE should not promote parties who cleared savage raids or the ultimate raids (which they have done) the idea for 'world first' to you in this example you have given me is as worthless as the top pvp players.also yes i shall compare PVE content to PVP , for one simple and easy regard, it is due to the mechanics of the system and how rewards are given to the whole, to cherry pick into one corner while blocking your ears to the rest doesn't give a full scope into what the issue is,

' taking the lone wolf coat or the hellhound mount and putting it in the achievement store is saying "hey remember how you competed to be top 100? yeah we're just giving those away because people are whining on the forums"'

"hey remember that outfit we gave you for spending hundreds if not thousands of your local currency to come see us for the day as a thank you were giving it to everyone on the mog store because they wanted it"
"hey remember that Fenrir you want that costs 1 million MGP that you grinned for ever for, well were putting it in the recruit a friend area so people who don't know what to spend feathers on can get it"

i can do this as well, but allow me to phrase it this way. there have been multiple items from achievements that have been given a simple recolour or a very SLIGHT change to them then given out by other means, one example is the golden magitek, you can feel good in your golden magitek, while others are in black red and white,

this is what i was advertising for in mine, as i stated give the pvp players a Glowing or a unique shine, with a dulled out one to others after a couple patches, which with this game is basically a full years exclusivity.

'because when it was released it was told to everyone at the same time "hey you can compete in this new pvp season and win this!" its not the rest of our fault you chose not to compete.'

for seasons 1 2 and 3 the time they told the rewards was after the season had started, they showed the promise for a reward and then showed the reward later, this time they have shown the reward again after the start. while on your servers pvp is still active on the datacenter i am from i have been queued into pvp since i started typing and only got into ONE match, i can choose to compete and i have, but as time goes on the incentive to continue becomes harder when the queue to join takes longer then i can give to the game due to life.

'You can go back to Alexander savage and get the same rewards not but albeit easier you're still clearing the same content. Which is why I'd be okay with with it being available for wolf collars since it's still competing in ranked pvp.'

Again i agree with this compromise of it being available via wolf collars, like i said last time, this is a good compromise that i agree with, but as i said you also agree for another means to gain said items. as for the alexander part, now your comparing PvE to PVP which you didn't like me doing but i do still agree when the rewards are a longer lasting item to get. and wolf tokens are something that arnt impossible to gain it is more incentive and good.

i have no disagreements here.

'Fanfest outfits arent comparable, you cant compare spending 18$ to winning a competition, although I still think the tattoo is an accurate comparison both are a reward for taking part in certain content neither should be widely distributed.'

by the logic your going with the meteor tattoo then i can still use the mog outfit as a comparison, and the original Mog outfit was a solid exclusive to people who were physically attending the event until one month prior where they then gave it to the online watchers, this was met with heavy backlash. which is why it is still a amp comparison. you can also then look at the butler and maid outfits a 'competition' in the real world. those sets are now available per person on the mog station, it may not be the exact same type of competition but both are gained though a competition in different regons of the world.

'If you're so annoyed with how little these rewards are seen compete this season and then you can see the mount everyday, they competed, they earned these rewards its not their fault you chose not to compete, also how can you compare garo of all things to RANKED pvp You could maybe make these arguments for casual pvp, but im sorry we shouldnt be giving out ranked PvP rewards for anything but taking part in ranked PvP SE already gives into people too much letting them get anything without effort simply for waiting I hope they dont do it for this and I dont think they will.'

The first part is a repetition for the point made above.

Why compare GARO. because GARO was only meant to be gained though the means of PVP which by the logic you went with should be the only means to which access the sets, they were then put into the gold saucer another forms of accessibility. this is why i use that set, it proves a point. just because it is RANKED pvp or a PVP EXCLUSIVE set means no true difference, all RANKED things mean is a recorded stat added to you, the mounts are PVP exclusive and then once that distinction is made it then falls into the same category as the Garo gears.

I could make this arguement for casual PVP but theres a slight difference, Casual pvp Achivements and gear is still accessible for everyone though normal means, and are not solely in a limited run with no means to gear or anything that remotely looks close. i still agree on the ADS mount achievement though it is harder to get it is still possible for me to get it today tomorrow a year from now and a new player to start and get it themselves.

again i repeat i aint saying for the mount to be made for everyone but for a different version for everyone, or though another means, let there drip with blood or glow with fire be GOLDEN while the one for the other means doesn't glow or is a different colour, its still 'exclusive' and show off=y but it isn't lost forever once it is done.

the last part is up to SE using the examples i gave they tend to change there minds on things, while you can argue on the point of them not changing there mind i believe we can agree that our compromise is possibly the best solution, or agree to disagree.

'And im sorry, but you just come off really entitled that you want something other people worked hard for because you think you deserve it? it's a nice mount sure but its meant to signify a win over hundreds of other people'

first the 'entitled' part is not a good argument, by rights i can say the same to you it won't get us anywhere, personally i feel like this discussion has brought up good points and a civil debate between us so far has shown both our thoughts and ideals there no need to muddy that water with a title that tends to just be "your entitled so i don't want to talk to you" stance, but to continue at no point did i say to give it in a way to everyone to say 'screw you' to the work. at the moment we don't have a grasp onto how the achievement currency are earned. they could put it in there for 500 tokens. i doubt no-one has that many and if they do it is probably a small minority. so by your logic should you say screw them and all they have done, and again, make those who did win, give there version of the mount something unique to them.

' how would you feel if you worked really hard for something and someone complained on the forums and was given something that took you months of play 5+ hours a day and unbelievable amounts of stress just because they wanted it?'

i point back to the dreadwyrm set as my example onto this, and for what they did with ultimate coils. i worked hard, and got my sets for them to become crafted and dyeable, and i thought that it was ok because by then the exclusive 'i did good' vibe wore out.

i think it is a brilliant idea what they did for ultimate coils, to give the gear a glow to stand out, and THAT IS WHY i think the pvp mounts should have the same thing, ANYONE could get the dreadwyrm gear and look good, but they have the shiny version.

they have shown and put in a way that most people agree with it, yet this is the part most disagree on they can do what they have already done.

'THANK YOU.'

while i know this wasn't aimed at me, but i should say thank you, as i said above i think this debate has shown what both sides think so far, i do agree with the compromise as stated above in this post, Weather it be for the achievement shop or the wolf collars shop there is a common middle ground between our views to where we both agree it should be put.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aviars

Nice how your examples of SE adding items for the general population only apply to items that weren't part of a contest.

Butler attire and maid attire are in the mogstation and were part of a contest irl.

The Korean and Chinese exclusive mounts and outfits as well if you wish for me to use ones that they fully intended to keep to those reasons specifically

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aviars

I also like how you include items like the dreadwyrm set that you could get in a un-synced raid quite easily.

i used this as an example that goes with there intent as you have, this point is still valid the fact you can do it easily today doesn't mean they intended it to be gained though other means.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aviars

NPC outfits were never available until SE decided to release them, and again, weren't part of a contest that involved talent/skill or anything of a similar nature

this goes against your SE intended it in your last post, with this you changed your wording to be more spisific so i shall repeat my earlier point the butler and maid outfit were part of a 'contest' for a real life collection, this is within the definition of a contest. that is now available to others, to say i am now focusing on something that isn't pvp is mainly down to your argument coming down to pure semantics. i have said the outfits with there original intention, and what they have done since. this regardless of the content is no different.

Also to end this off @Crescents i do thank you for this little debate, hopefully it enlightens others who read it, though we may not agree on this, i do like the compromise you came up with.

OK another mount

I have to agree with DracotheDragon. Using Wolf Collars has a lot of potential and it is a good way to promote The Feast. It is a win win situation for everyone, let say if you got to the top 100 you automatically get the mount, if you are just a casual player and want to get a mount, you can buy it for 20 collars. Which means you have to play not just one but a lot of Feast Seasons (depending on the rank you get). This will encourage everyone to try Feast and who knows we may see new blood that will go to the top. Just like with Garo, FL became relevant again because of that. And lastly for the collectors who buys their merchandise just to collect minions/mounts it will give them more reason to never stop spending their money on vanity hahaha.
Top 100 – instant mount reward
Casual players – Need XX number of collars to get previous mount rewards
More players to play the feast, the faster the queue time.
Just my opinion, please be gentle. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rieze_Xeero

Just my opinion, please be gentle. :)

i was wondering if i should put a TL DR so people didn't need to go though the WALLS and you basically summed it up thanks :P

to add why not a shiny or glowing one for the top 100 and a non glowing for wolf collars as well :P that way it is still exclusive to them with some bonus's

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rieze_Xeero

Just my opinion, please be gentle. :)

Honestly, this is a good compromise it could even drum up interest for the dying PvP community, seeing how most people think "I'll never reach that why even bother..? and as long as people have to take part in the feast and get it much slower and its a better alternative than the models eventually being used in a dungeon or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

to add why not a shiny or glowing one for the top 100 and a non glowing for wolf collars as well :P that way it is still exclusive to them with some bonus's

The best rewards for The Feast in my "opinion" are titles, good looking gear and weapons that stand out. You can use them anywhere. In dungeons, raids, PVP and people can see you with those items data center wide. Unlike with mounts, you can just brag it on your server only and just the world map not even cities.

Do you guys really need to debate this at beginning of every season?
This is a topic where PvE and PvP will never reach an agreement.
Just one simple question, if gear from God Kefkka can be obtain from weekly tome, how would PvE community react?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinemights

Just one simple question, if gear from God Kefkka can be obtain from weekly tome, how would PvE community react?

That's why I said they should use Wolf Collar, do you know what is that? it is rewarded by the end of the season and the lowest amount you will get is 3 (for bronze). So if the requirement is like 20. Imagine how many years before you will get it. :P

I think it is a fair trade. Anyway that's all. GL to everyone who will try their luck with the next season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinemights

Do you guys really need to debate this at beginning of every season?
This is a topic where PvE and PvP will never reach an agreement.
Just one simple question, if gear from God Kefkka can be obtain from weekly tome, how would PvE community react?

Horrible comparison people keep committing to. PvE content and its rewards will always be there for players to try in the future. And technically gear better than God Kefka will be avaliable by weekly tomes within a few months. So that's not only pretty normal but everyone accepts it. If you want to validate PvP rewards being unique, the way they are right now, you have to try harder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

Horrible comparison people keep committing to. PvE content and its rewards will always be there for players to try in the future. And technically gear better than God Kefka will be avaliable by weekly tomes within a few months. So that's not only pretty normal but everyone accepts it. If you want to validate PvP rewards being unique, the way they are right now, you have to try harder.

First of all, I support the idea for exclusive PvP reward and secondly, I just find this is pointless argument at beginning every season.
PvP side also need to get off their high horse.
Solo queue Feast is just a training mode for Arena in WoW.
It is competitive but it is also mostly a time sink with RNG involved, it is not really true skill based.
We don't have enough people to get party feast going where true skill is.
Therefore, we need to get more people switch from PvE to PvP.
All you need to do is politely tell them: "No thanks, PvP exclusive reward should stay exclusive to PvP, but we are welcoming you and help you to participate"
Help them to join the Feast inside showing our toxicity side.