New info on housing plots, PVP, squadron changes

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

I like having wards with multiple houses in them. Per-player instances would lose that, which is why I dislike that solution.

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This is why I'm proposing it in a new housing area. So that for those that want to keep the wards feel to them, have at it, you got it (but be advised it's likely to be more limited). For those who just want a house for their FC for example (for things like airships and gardening), well, that's also an option. But it won't have the ward feeling. I also figured that done this way, they wouldn't have to touch that spaghetti code to try and fix it, and instead just salvage what they can from inn rooms (dynamic generation) and houses (for the decoration side) and smash them together into one new chunk of code. Is it a flawless solution? No. But, given the situation, I don't know what else we can do.

All the code, except for dynamic increase of instances (which shouldn't be too difficult to write, seeing as it would only make a check here or there and either copy a set data or not copy it), is already in the game.
Most importantly, there are apartments that are instanced locations which players can customize.

I don't want to hear this "inside or outside" crap. There is no such thing in this game. It's just graphical talk, there is zero difference for the games engine. Every instance have its set parameters, and the only difference between "inside" and "outside" is how the parameter that allows or denies certain pieces of furniture be placed is set. The other differences are superficial, in that they decided to make the outside a large instance with exits into many smaller instances. That have nothing to do with the code at all. It's just how they designed it, and there is zero reason why they couldn't do a single-plot sized instance with a single exit into a single "inside" space. The entirety of the code exists.

Why they are not doing it is clear. Money. Housing with customization does require significant amount of computing power and drive space. They would NEED to buy new physical servers to match the demand. And they find the expenses exceeding the gain. Simple as that. Everything they say about how it's not possible or whatever are just excuses to shush as many people as possible. It's a business. They lie. That's normal. As long as they lie as to why they don't bring something that they never did make a promise for, there is nothing "wrong" with that.

The only solution is to hope that whatever bonzos at Square Enix treat Final Fantasy XIV as cash cow for other projects will finally see it as a stand-alone game that should be invested in more significantly from the huge funds it earns, instead of moving that money into multiple unrelated crap-games.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

There is no inherent reason they cannot keep the wards however. Look at LOTRO - pretty much the same setup with houses as we have here, except a much larger number of wards, with new wards getting activated automatically once a certain type of houses are sold out. (Not quite infinite number of wards, or neighbourhoods as they are called in LOTRO, but lots more than we have here.)

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I wouldn't say it's the same setup with houses that we have here, given how limited their housing is feature-wise (and in terms of customization, which I remember players asking the devs for freeform item placement and they were told that the impact on the server would be an issue and that's why they went with the hook system that only accepts certain types of items in certain hooks. and the lack of being able to access the auction house from those zones.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Everquest

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That's a misleading answer and I think you know that, considering how the Everquest auction system doesn't even work the same way as the one we use.

So again, which EQ housing area features are essentially "always on" type features?

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

There we go, some ideas on how FFXIV can do, like these other MMOs.

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So my question to you was "What other MMO that can dynamically provide new housing areas that works the same way they do in FFXIV?" and your answer was to then suggest that XIV change the way it works so that it can work like other MMOs...

I don't know if you realize this, but you basically just said "No other MMO does it the same way."

Which was my point.

Moving forward, they should absolutely be looking at systems that dynamically scale...but they already mostly do that anyway with FC rooms and apartments (none of those are loaded in until a player access them) and work on figuring out how to get the few features that can't currently be accessed from these non-permanent instanced housing bits (like cross-breeding in gardening...you can already grow stuff, just can't cross-breed) working within those dynamically loading systems (along with providing more size options)...

And from the comments in various interviews, that's likely the kind of stuff they'll be looking at after 4.2 anyway.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

I don't want to hear this "inside or outside" crap. There is no such thing in this game. It's just graphical talk, there is zero difference for the games engine.

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Pretty big difference between the insides (which are ALL dynamically loaded based on when a player is there or not, for every house in the game) and the outsides, which are always loaded, even when a player isn't there. And it's setup that way because of certain features the game allows players to access in that area (like the Market Board). I'm sure it's possible they could make it so those outside areas also dynamically load and connect all the relevant stuff...but what does that do for the stability of the feature/zone/server when it has to do that for 72 different zones?

Ignoring that and acting like there is no difference is just putting your head in the sand.

The one thing that stood out to me is the proof that SE is going to mess up the new housing wards.

Yoshida says "everyone can get a house fair and square!" But then in this interview says "we don't want people to make any initial preparations." The fact that he's worried about people making "preparations" makes it pretty clear to me that not everyone will be able to get a house. I interpret the statement "everyone can get a house fair and square" as meaning anyone with the gil shall be able to get a house, period. Anything less than that is completely unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

I like having wards with multiple houses in them. Per-player instances would lose that, which is why I dislike that solution. Multiple houses per player is only a bad thing when housing is a limited resource.

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I suggested keeping the old system alongside a new one.

The only reason you'd be opposed to that is you don't want people to have housing.

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

I think you meant to type YES.


On a whole this article just confirmed or didnt confirm things we already knew.

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No!!! I do not want Yoshi to disgrace a beautiful race with his "limitation" nonsense. If the moment they come out with no (High) Heels, that's when tables get toss. Fix your current races! It makes non sense that you can add a whole bunch of options to the CC but can't add it to the current races!

character limit... something else that needs removing...

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Originally Posted by Berethos

So my question to you was "What other MMO that can dynamically provide new housing areas that works the same way they do in FFXIV?" and your answer was to then suggest that XIV change the way it works so that it can work like other MMOs...

I don't know if you realize this, but you basically just said "No other MMO does it the same way."

Which was my point.

Moving forward, they should absolutely be looking at systems that dynamically scale...but they already mostly do that anyway with FC rooms and apartments (none of those are loaded in until a player access them) and work on figuring out how to get the few features that can't currently be accessed from these non-permanent instanced housing bits (like cross-breeding in gardening...you can already grow stuff, just can't cross-breed) working within those dynamically loading systems (along with providing more size options)...

And from the comments in various interviews, that's likely the kind of stuff they'll be looking at after 4.2 anyway.

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That was an intentional dodge of the question because I haven't researched every single MMORPG out there. The ones I know of don't do it. And I am not willing to research every single MMORPG in existence (I'm already busy dealing with simulation games, to try and help improve my dexterity).

Anyways, back to the crux of my post. Rather that looking at what other MMORPG does it and carbon copy it, why don't we focus on making it the first to do it? Why does everything have to be something a previous MMORPG has done? I agree, my previous posts were so badly phrased and factually incorrect it's worthy of a permanent ban without appeal from the game and forums (as well as Square Enix suing me for $500 octodecillion, and being permanently banned from every game in the world past/present/future, whether single player or multiplayer, without appeal) and I apologise for that false statement, but that was borne out of frustration of seeing other games seemingly get it right (for example LOTRO has wards that dynamically generate, WildStar with its instanced housing, etc), and yet all we get is constantly told "Technical limitations". That being said, when you say "What other MMORPG does this?", that's how other people will see it, even though it was basically a natural response to the way I'd phrased the quoted post you were responding to.

Frankly, hearing "technical limitations" all the time is deflating and gives off the feeling of "Well what on earth are they doing?", and while I have done software development in the past myself (though not to a level anywhere near as advanced as FFXIV) and can understand the nightmares of "spaghetti code", it's definitely something worth investing in. Isn't this part of the reason why we dropped the PS3 for example, to help move the game forward? It's why I put forward ideas on how to progress it and make it work. Housing continues to become a bigger and bigger thorn in the playerbase's side. There has to be a way to do it, it's why I suggested ideas on how to move forward, making use of existing infrastructure where we could, and putting it forward. Players don't see the intricate limitations in the other games, all they see is "Well, they can do it, why can't FFXIV?", and frankly, I sometimes feel that way too, despite having dabbled in software dev myself (having taken the approach that anything can be done if you try hard enough. With my code, that means it must be perfect even at the expense of my own physical/mental health, health is secondary to perfect code. Yes, that contributed to me losing my last job because I did essentially destroy my mental health with the standards I set. They've been ingrained for 10+ years, I'm not able to simply shake them off.).

The problem is, FC rooms and apartments don't give access to the workshop, which is why we need an instanced housing solution for FCs. Not to mention FCs cannot buy apartments anyway. Right now, the solution basically gives FCs with large houses a huge advantage. There's no large plots available (and from what I've seen on Louisoix, nobody is willing to sell any large plots for any price). Without a large house, there are limits on things like "How many gardening areas can you have?", "How many crafting facilities can you have out at once?" (speaking of those facilities, they need upgrading, but that's a separate topic I will tackle at a later date). If nobody is willing to sell a large house (and let's be fair, the grey area with the ToS will put people off), then these FCs without them, are suddenly put at a disadvantage that they have no hope of fixing unless they get lucky. Indeed, on most realms, all housing is taken up already. The solutions SE put in like what we believe to be a lottery system on housing to prevent it being simply "Who can get here first?" when the servers come back up feel like meaningless gestures to the greater problem of lack of supply. I think it's understandable that people are getting tired of it.

The problem is, SE don't want to lift those limits on smaller houses, because it then loses the appeal of a large house. And I can understand that in a way, but something really needs to be done about it. Perhaps keeping the lower item limits would be enough? I don't know. That's why people peddle the need for instanced housing. Because these extra wards are simply an almost useless band-aid to the problem at hand (in the grand scheme of things anyway). It's why they peddle for account limitations (not just character limitations). SE adding a few more wards is just a band-aid fix that lasts all of about 15 minutes. It's not fixing the core of the issue.

I hate this idea, i hate that i want it to help alleviate some housing issue from my limited and probably erroneous perspective. I think a solution could be instanced housing via the mog station. Buyers would be able to purchase manors or keeps, variants as a home for... ahem... reasonable prices. The keep it's self would only offer more area to decorate (added floors, possibly a second sub building or area, or expanded yard or garden). Primary caveats being not able to produce any more from gardening, or any other aspect to overshadow in game housing. The home itself would be primarily just for gatherings and cosmetics. They would be excluded from any in game decoration contest, ect...

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

The one thing that stood out to me is the proof that SE is going to mess up the new housing wards.

Yoshida says "everyone can get a house fair and square!"

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This quote gets misused/misunderstood a lot. He never indicated that everyone would be able to get a house. He said that everyone would have an equal chance at getting a house.