I Love 4.0 Summoner. A lot.

The fact that a 32 pages word document on how to play the job correctly exists is what made me shy away from my SMN, which I still leveled to 70 and haven't touched for endgame content at all.

All you guys who can manage to not get demoralised by having to do a perfect execution of skills every time to be on par with the other DPSs have all my respect. Personally, I can't be bothered playing Chopin on my keyboard to do decent DPS when everyone else has their 1-2-3 combos.

I'm just glad something like SMN exists. Too many times have I invested in a character on an mmo for the class to be gutted and turned in to a shadow of it's former self.

I don't care it doesn't have the best dps. It's fun as hell to play. Especially when you get it all right.

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Originally Posted by Neela

well... I think its senseless to discuss this any further... we won't find a match in this : /

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Healer doesn't negate Radiant Shield. It's not an actual Shield... You put it on a tank and anytime they take damage, it procs. It's like eye for an eye. It's not something that can be negated. I just think you don't know what you are talking about.

thats the point target has to recieve dmg - so read again.

If someone don't know what he's talking about it's you claiming rdms complexity over the smn ones.

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Originally Posted by Neela

thats the point target has to recieve dmg - so read again.

If someone don't know what he's talking about it's you claiming rdms complexity over the smn ones.

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The effect of Radiant Shield procs even if the tank takes 0 damage (for using Hallowed Ground for example). Technically the tank took damage, it just so happens it was 0.

As for RDM vs SMN, RDM kinda pisses me off how easy it is compared to SMN. Your tought process is limited to maybe 10seconds in advance max, as opposite to summoner that has to fit a cluncky 2 minute rotation into a boss pattern.

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Originally Posted by Brinzy

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This argument always makes me chuckle and it's not just the "I want my summoner to be a dot mage, I don't want to summon pets" mentality. You talk about non-compelling game play and then go on about how you want it to play like a dot mage. There is nothing compelling about applying mutiple ranks of the same dot and spamming ruin/fester ad nauseum. It's a summoner and it should feel and play like one, not some watered down version of WoWs affliction warlock. I honestly can't comprehend how people felt that was a enjoyable playstyle.

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Originally Posted by Ashbury

As for RDM vs SMN, RDM kinda pisses me off how easy it is compared to SMN. Your tought process is limited to maybe 10seconds in advance max, as opposite to summoner that has to fit a cluncky 2 minute rotation into a boss pattern.

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yeah... i just wonder how anyone can have a (serious) opinion which is vice versa...

The problem isn't how RDM or BLM plays, it's that SMN has too many phases and not a smooth transition from each one.

Currently it's "dot > AF _ skill _ skill _ skill > DWT >__________dots__________ > AF _ skill _ skill _ skill _ DWT > __________dots___________ > AF > Bahamut"

There is nothing to fill the void between first DWT and the next AF except ruin and recast DoTs; basically there is just too much ability downtime between phases. Also to use Demi-B to he's full potential requires a full AF stack wish adds more to the frustration. I really think that Quicken Aetherflow trait SCH got would go a long way to help SMN.

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Originally Posted by Selova

This argument always makes me chuckle and it's not just the "I want my summoner to be a dot mage, I don't want to summon pets" mentality. You talk about non-compelling game play and then go on about how you want it to play like a dot mage. There is nothing compelling about applying mutiple ranks of the same dot and spamming ruin/fester ad nauseum. It's a summoner and it should feel and play like one, not some watered down version of WoWs affliction warlock. I honestly can't comprehend how people felt that was a enjoyable playstyle.

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This has been SMN's playstyle since 2013. It's a little to late to being asking for a complete do over.

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Originally Posted by Ashbury

T
As for RDM vs SMN, RDM kinda pisses me off how easy it is compared to SMN. Your tought process is limited to maybe 10seconds in advance max, as opposite to summoner that has to fit a cluncky 2 minute rotation into a boss pattern.

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Only difference between planning out Summoner vs Red Mage is how clunky Aetherflow is. The Red Mage opener isn't fast, and takes around 20-30 seconds to do. In O3s, the boss interrupts a Red Mage's opener most of the time and Stuns them setting it back. All it would take to Fix Summoner's clunkyness is remove the restrictions on aetherflow. -I.E. Let me Fester in Dreadwyrm Trance. It would be a small dps gain, and make the class flow better. (Something Ironic about Aetherflow... not flowing well... Atherflow... or aint not flow.) Planning to when to use dreadwyrm trance, is no different then a ninja using trick attack on certain phases, or a red mage using/holding embolden to better time the fight.

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Originally Posted by Ariomi

Planning to when to use dreadwyrm trance, is no different then a ninja using trick attack on certain phases, or a red mage using/holding embolden to better time the fight.

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Planing when to execute a part of your rotation that takes ~15 seconds to build, lasts for 16 and backlogs/effects your rotation for the next 1-2 minutes is the same as holding 1 skill? Please.

Yes, there are many problems with Aetherflow which I don't know how they can fix without throwing the job ballance they built into wack. They'll probably have to review skill potencies too.

Another problem is wasting Ruin IV procs. I think it should be a stack, maybe stack to 5 and every time you execute Ruin IV it consumes a stack? Ruin IV procs happening during Demi-Bahamut phase sucks because you can't use them effectvely without Swiftcast, and sometimes you just don't have time to use Ruin IV when you are doing some other shit/weaving oGCD.