Tank Scaling still a massive issue

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Originally Posted by BlackironTarkus

You're missing the point.

We can be set to do x% less damage than dps forever and that would be okay. If dps are always 30 % higher then a tank, then that works.

The problem we face here is that dps will start at 30% higher. Then will be 40%. Then 50% higher. Then 60% higher. Eventually and with enough time and gear upgrades dps could be 2x or 3x more dps than a tank and this is a real problem.

Later down the line they will need to constantly buff our threat output to hold aggro against such higher numbers.

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Think you are still missing the point. When tanks can sit in DPS stances for the entirety of a fight and never have a chance to lose emnity to dps, then emnity is a non factor. If we were forced to sit in tank stance and spam emnity combos all day just to keep it then you might have a leg to stand on but that's not the case. The only thing you are griping about is that you can't do leet deeps while being a tank. Sorry but if you want to see big numbers roll dps.

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Originally Posted by eagledorf

There's actually no reason to believe we'll scale slower or faster since that's behind the scenes and they can always put more STR on left-side gear or accessories in a future patch to make up the difference if the scaling does become a problem.

The problem is Fending gear is still a crap drop, you feel bad as a static to get such a worthless upgrade. I remember when I was doing Gordias I literally never used any piece of Fending gear that dropped while we were raiding, they were just put in my inventory and forgotten. While that will no longer be the case, why are they insisting on making one slot of gear for just one role so incredibly bad? We should be excited when a tank accessory (any accessory) drops, not disappointed.

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Exactly. It's a step in the right direction more or less, they can always make adjustments further down the road if needed.

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Originally Posted by BlackironTarkus

It's not going to a be a problem now. It won't be a problem in 4.1, or 4.2, or even 4.3 or 4.4. Maybe it won't even be a problem when 5.0 launches. But if SE's policy on how how tanks scale compared to the scaling of every other class doesn't change, we will run into the "I'm in Grit/ShO/Defiance, and spamming Aggro, and I'm losing hate!" issue.

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You are completely contradicting your entire points. If none of this is an issue until the next expac then it's a non issue all around. Everything is changed and reworked each expac. So if the current trend doesn't give any problems till 5.0 or later, then we have nothing to worry about. Your job as tank is to hold hate and reduce incoming damage. Not to do DPS. If they put in some massive dps check that requires tank and healer dps to beat then we can bitch but they've already said they have no intention of doing that after the last mistake they made doing so.

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Originally Posted by BlackironTarkus

This is fine, and with substats the difference is made up from Alexandrian slaying.

The big big problem is this:

340 fending seems to have +42 str. 20 item levels and only a gain of 2.

The issue I raised before where eventually with enough time if nothing is changed we could have dps with 1k, 2k, 3k higher attack power than a tank and it will require constant enmity patching has been delayed by 2 patches tops.

We need to gain the same gain that dps get, just on a lower base value.

If dps accs gain 14 str on a 20 ilvl jump, tank accs need to gain 14 too. By handing dps +14 and tanks +2 for this higher ilvl, eventually you will be back to square one.

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This is simply not true if tanks have % enmity modifiers. Dps could have 10x the ap gain as long as tanks have 10x enmity modifier.

Well at least SE now has an efficient way to tweak tank DPS. While the upgrade from 320 to 340 is minuscule, they adjust the scale again when they introduce the next tier of gear, i.e. We could get a bigger boost from 340 to 350 than dps jobs.
Also, consider that your stats gain is front loaded compared to other jobs.

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Originally Posted by DacienSanderon

This is simply not true if tanks have % enmity modifiers. Dps could have 10x the ap gain as long as tanks have 10x enmity modifier.

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That's not how math works.

DPS should be using Diversion and their enmity dumps. Tanks should be circle shirking eachother for HUGE enmity boosts. The only enmity problems that exist are if you try to play tanks like you did in 2.x and 3.x, e.g. sitting in DPS stance spamming DPS combos, which is not playing tank or managing enmity, it's playing DPS with occasional tank cooldowns.

Another issue here is that this makes pentamelded crafted BiS for tanks because HQ crafted has 40 strength and 5 slots to meld more strength and then a bunch of crit/direct hit.

Why are tanks the only role that has to shell out an inordinate amount of gil and materia just to be optimal?

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Originally Posted by Harz

Another issue here is that this makes pentamelded crafted BiS for tanks because HQ crafted has 40 strength and 5 slots to meld more strength and then a bunch of crit/direct hit.

Why are tanks the only role that has to shell out an inordinate amount of gil and materia just to be optimal?

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You can only meld mainstat on the first slot. Tanks want crafted accessories as much as anyone else.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

You can only meld mainstat on the first slot. Tanks want crafted accessories as much as anyone else.

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Read what I said again.

"Meld more strength and then a bunch of crit/direct hit."

For the cost of 2 strength's worth of damage vs 240 accessories you can meld 160 substats.