Older Content Should still be relevant.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

In the end, you are too worried about current progression rather than figuring out how newer players who never had a time machine or a way for them to even have a chance.

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Or they could just do the old content unsynced with a few FC members, since by your own words people are quitting current content while actually geared to the teeth.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

It's all how Square enix chooses to balance it properly by changing the way end game is played out, i am sure they would make it so you wouldn't be able to cheat your way through progression if you can't even clear the fights according to my idea.

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There will always be a way to "cheat" as long as hand holding exists in this game. It's even in the rumors the next stages of savage is going to be even easier. Making my earlier comment of buying wins more of a reality.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

Content already has a time limit through regular tomestones to get the best gear in many weeks

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And they should keep it this way so people have a chance to gear up at least half way decently before the next patch hits and give people a chance to enjoy the current content.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

Instead they would probably re-balance of how lower tier of tomestones would work or how best in slot gear is obtained so everything would remain at a similar pace if not a slower one.

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So you're killing other content to give life to content that a majority of people don't care about by redistributing the importance of content. Kinda defeats your purpose.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

Players are constantly joining and creating characters.

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How many of those players are actually new.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

You also need to consider that a good number of people are not running this content day 1...and some never get a chance at all.

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I have considered this. Your suggestion puts the content in the grave faster or takes away the importance of another event. Everyone gets a chance it's called find and build a FC or Linkshell around doing old content. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from doing this. IF.......IF this horrible idea came to be, people WOULD STILL more than likely do this. Those that don't, are at the whim of a PUG, which a majority will quite literately disband and not get the objective done.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

It's time for a way to do things differently, that's the whole point. Square enix wouldn't just change one or two aspects, i am sure they would still find a way to keep content relevant. Progression or old.

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Their called crafted items, mounts, and most recently music scores. It's currently what is keeping Primals up and alive.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

For example: Making hunts no longer a thing for tomestone upgrade items, and having savage tomestones as one of the only ways to upgrade them,

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So make hunts irrelevant to suit your idea, yet again a contradiction.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

there will still be a reason to run content for savage tomestones every month even after you beat all the current progression fights, as much as you say it will die out there will still be an incentive to do the fights after you have personally lost interest doesn't mean there won't be new players, or those who wish to level up new classes, or people who don't get sick of content so easily.

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Just like there is a reason to run hunts, current 24 man raids, savage trials , and new primals to level up alt classes and gear up new characters to help newer players get caught up? But yes, lets make a new redundant system that takes away from that so we don't have to do current content.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

Another Example:What if tier SIX materia could only be bought with savage tomestones? There would be alot of incentive to still gather these savage tomestones,

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Yet again, current groups would just redirect their attention to the older fights and you'd not have people jumping on often to help the stragglers. If you're not getting the content learned within the first few weeks as a solo player in PUG's, your options are AGAIN....(A) Find a group (FC or LS) or (B) Make one. Both of which probably would allow people to go back and do older content right now.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

once again, even after getting "bored" of the current progression fights. I dare say having a large selection to choose from would actually help alleviate some of that boredom.

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Subjective to the player. I don't go into Level 50 roullete or level 60 rouellete and think. "Oh my god, I wonder what dungeon I'm going to get! I've got so many choices!". I think "Please be the highest yielding dungeon with 2 other half way decent player and one thats new for the bonus.". I'm pretty sure a over whelming majority think the 2nd one, but will go through with any situation as to not be a prick.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

Square enix could increase the number of tokens(manifestos) it takes to obtain anything to stop players from supposedly cheesing it through savage.

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This is a horrible idea.

This will only force current raiders to go back and do some other event to get what they normally would have gotten from Savage.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

Another: For example lore equipment wouldn't be easily obtained since Square might increase how much they cost.Same as previous example, but i think more tolerable and might even increase the number of people doing harder fights

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It won't. Not until they lock all good gear behind hard fights, which would decrease subs since items would be out of the hands of the casual player, which makes up a majority of the player base.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

since they would try to find ways to gear up faster and if they only make harder fights the way to get best in slot like it was when Heavensward was first released with gordias savage then i think it will actually might slow down progression IN JUST THE RIGHT WAY. Increasing the number of weeks it takes to get a single item, you would still see them as worth getting every week, just it would be balanced to consider the new savage tomestones.

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You just killed the entire player base or shifted them to doing Levi Ex spam which probably would still kill the entire player base. I don't know if you know this or not, but sign in's basically died during Gordias. Also a good chunk of the player base has trouble with older content, more so "the hard way." If you don't believe go spam thordan ex in a DF. Do 100 runs. Record them all and let's see how many actually win with current gear.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

It is very hard for me to not see you as assuming everything will remain the same, expect one or two things. MY idea is a foundation to build off of, not an exact representation of what square enix will ultimately do.

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Because everything will stay the same with a shift of what people do in order to gear up. It's a horrible foundation. You're just redistributing emphasis of content from current content, to old. Because you THINK there is a large demand for people to go back and do content "the hard way". Which isn't true. There may be a minority, but I can tell you now a majority of people probably won't be making it past quite a few of the older fights while synced.

If it's a "pick your poison" type of ordeal, people will go to the easier fights like Levi ex or T3 or T4.

If it's random and with roulletes most people probably won't do it and subs will decrease because FF14 has been built as a casual game, for casual gamers, that focuses mostly on story telling. What you're looking for is FF11. A game where older content stays relevant due to how gear progression is set up.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

They are a team of people i am sure they would be far more creative that I and find even better ways to keep both old and progression content relevant. If square enix chooses to balance how you even obtain gear differently and make things happen at a slower pace all around, your argument of things becoming obsolete too quickly becomes completely invalid.You cannot just consider each part of my ideas in individual bubbles, they are meant to be taken as a whole as a entire rebalance, and while i admit my idea does has some flaws, those flaws are easily fixed with a bit of critical thinking.

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Devil is in the detail. Slowing gear progression down really isn't a option unless their willing to try and rebuild their subscriber base. There is a reason why there are large increases in populations during Patches and Expansions. It's called new things to get and do. With no better gear out in side fights or dungeons, the population dies down faster which = money lost. Pretty basic idea.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

In the end all the old content is optional, you don't need to run levi ex(that is retooled to a more savage version anyways with new mechanics essentially making it a newer version of the fight that you can't easily beat.)

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You don't need to but people would because it's easier. If they re-tool the fight, it's a new fight and new content. Rehashed, but still new.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

since if your doing current progression, according to my idea you would get the majority of your tomestones through savage dungeon roulette which is easier mid core content or through current savage progression which would offer larger chunks of savage tomestones since they are the latest content,

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Which wouldn't work. Have you even been through coil with purely PUGs? Let me tell you 8 out of 10 groups don't work and after 2 wipes someone is going to leave. Which equates to bad player experience which more than likely will lead to groups being made and new people not being helped. Yet again your idea is flat on it's face.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

You can't assume that if a player gets a item that they will stop doing content, some may be like that but others also like to play with their friends and play other classes as well,or to obtain materia

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It's not a assumption, a majority of players stop after getting what they want. If this were not the case you'd have no reason to try and put MORE incentives and to TAKE AWAY from current content to put towards this awful idea of yours.

You're just talking in circles now. Their called FC and Linkshells dude. They already exist.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

Square enix will release in the future such as revamped SAVAGE primal fights.

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Which would be new content yet again...

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

Not everyone is so self centered or gets bored of the game so easily, in the end this idea adds more goals for the vast majority.

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No...your idea forces a majority of already established groups to go back and redo content for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

When i say content has a time limit, i only speak of how low Square enix will keep it relevant for players to experience it with the difficulty as intended when first released. Doesn't mean players have no interest in doing it, that's your way of twisting my words.

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Pre-made party => que => go. Tomes are still attached to them and allows progression through relics, which is why when the item portion of relic weapons was discovered people rushed to do it. You know what a majority of people did though? Find n00b for bonus -> Unsync -> run through entire coil. A majority of players don't have interest of doing it.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

Square enix has already introduced raid finder...which on some level they want more players to do harder content,and even considered adding primal fights to it, which means a very limited version of that mentality that they want players to find EX/savage parties easier for content...old and new... has already come into play.

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Which was implemented more or less to help unpopulated severs. I told you that your sever wide friendlist / pf would be decent. But not in the way you want it to be.


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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

you yourself admitted to cross server friends list and party finder being a good idea,

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Yes, to help lower populated severs find groups to do things with, which 9 times out of 10 will be towards current content.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

they need to take it a step further and allow people to have raid finder roulette's or some kind of reward for using raid finder or something akin to it since people have limited time to play

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No they don't. People having limited time is another reason why your idea is falling flat on it's face. They'd actually have to beat the content, which a majority of the time, you're not going to beat a 8 man raid savage mode in a PUG.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

so they would need to see it as worth it with a proper incentive for all that effort.

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Which is why most people don't bother with old content nor savage content as a majority of the player base can't beat them, even when their over geared.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

As for people having limited time, as always the monthly cap would not be considerably hard to achieve

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This is 100% subjective to the player and their playing conditions.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

and people would feel its better time spent than doing something like banal boring hunts for tomestone upgrades.

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This is yet again subjective. Some people find what you're suggesting to be a boring idea as they've already done the content a billion times over. I actually find it strange that you think it's ok to take away from Hunts for the sake of your idea. By doing that, you're now placing hunts in the same position as the old raids yet you scream and cry about players experiencing everything the way it was meant to originally be.


TLDR: People already help each other. Their called FC's and Linkshells. Your ideas for a 'savage roullete' is horrible. Go do 100 of any EX primal, current or old. Record it and lets see how well PUGs get along, it'll show why your idea won't help new people and why people make statics for things..

You make many good points seku, however i think there is a lot of assumptions on both sides of the debate..oh well... let's dive into it.

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Originally Posted by Seku

Or they could just do the old content unsynced with a few FC members, since by your own words people are quitting current content while actually geared to the teeth.

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People quit because there is no variety, and they get burned out doing that ONE fight they can't get past.

Why would it be as fun to do it undersized? You ever run a turn 9 undersized farm for gil? You skip almost all of the mechanics after heavensfall if you have full undersized party.

Yeah "fun" is subjective,so is everything. If people have no interest of doing fights the hard way they won't regardless of what square enix does.At least people who do find it fun would have chance of getting a decent party with all my ideas combined.

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There will always be a way to "cheat" as long as hand holding exists in this game. It's even in the rumors the next stages of savage is going to be even easier. Making my earlier comment of buying wins more of a reality.

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If they are buying clears, then doing older content the hard way to max out tomes,then what's your point? I don't see buying clears becoming a problem for anyone, or hurting anyone. Even though i never would do it myself, the way i see it, people will do what they want. No one is forcing them to do anything, are they going to buy savage tomestone maxes every month too?

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And they should keep it this way so people have a chance to gear up at least half way decently before the next patch hits and give people a chance to enjoy the current content.

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No they shouldn't. Let's try to make end game more attractive by utilizing all the previous content so MORE PEOPLE WILL DO IT, people will still get to enjoy and run current progression content regardless for best in slot gear, and you still need to beat it to obtain manifestos or w/e.

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So you're killing other content to give life to content that a majority of people don't care about by redistributing the importance of content. Kinda defeats your purpose.

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If hunts were actually challenging and fun to do and a had a story i would consider them worthwhile content. Also making hunts not give tomestone upgrades is something square enix already does every few patches or so...it's not a far-fetched idea and i am sure most people wouldn't give a crap anyways if square enix rebalanced hunts so they gave other invaluable rewards like tier 6 materia keeping them relevant, but unable to raise your ilvl faster. People would still do them for other reasons if square enix handles it right.

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How many of those players are actually new.

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I do not think we really need to count to know that most people have never gotten the chance are in the majority, my server in particular has had HUGE insurgence of new players who never played this game before.

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I have considered this. Your suggestion puts the content in the grave faster or takes away the importance of another event. Everyone gets a chance it's called find and build a FC or Linkshell around doing old content. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from doing this. IF.......IF this horrible idea came to be, people WOULD STILL more than likely do this. Those that don't, are at the whim of a PUG, which a majority will quite literately disband and not get the objective done.

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When people say things like, well technically you can do it. They always miss the point, go ahead and try doing it that way, most people want to run the content, but know that they rather waste their time on yokai or something else that gives them more of a reward then running frustrating content for none.Some people need that kind of push like savage tomestones or end game reward to discover that they did want to do it all along.

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Their called crafted items, mounts, and most recently music scores. It's currently what is keeping Primals up and alive.

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I would agree if those items only dropped from doing the content the hard way. I don't enjoy undersize at all.

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So make hunts irrelevant to suit your idea, yet again a contradiction.

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You know, just maybe.... hunts are crappy boring content and no one cares? I love hunts if they were more akin to open world raiding older mmo's have...but they are not. Which is what people wanted probably when they practically BEGGED square enix to add something like them in and they got this crap fest of a boring grind compared to other types of content.

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Just like there is a reason to run hunts, current 24 man raids, savage trials , and new primals to level up alt classes and gear up new characters to help newer players get caught up? But yes, lets make a new redundant system that takes away from that so we don't have to do current content.

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Savage tomestones wouldn't really help your ilvl raise unless you've beaten the current progression content according to my idea. People would still run current progression, but they wouldn't feel bad if they took a break from it. If anything people would play the game longer cause there is other things to do after they get sick of beating current progression, they could go try a savage primal or coil instead of beating their head on the current fight they can't get past. God forbid if there is more variety to the highest tier of end game.

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Yet again, current groups would just redirect their attention to the older fights and you'd not have people jumping on often to help the stragglers. If you're not getting the content learned within the first few weeks as a solo player in PUG's, your options are AGAIN....(A) Find a group (FC or LS) or (B) Make one. Both of which probably would allow people to go back and do older content right now.

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Those wouldn't be your only options,if current progression drops best in slot gear, and the tokens needed to make your ilvl raise, then wouldn't you agree that people would want to do it more than the older content especially since you need the CLEARS in order to make use of the savage tomestones to raise ilvl at all?

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Subjective to the player. I don't go into Level 50 roullete or level 60 rouellete and think. "Oh my god, I wonder what dungeon I'm going to get! I've got so many choices!". I think "Please be the highest yielding dungeon with 2 other half way decent player and one thats new for the bonus.". I'm pretty sure a over whelming majority think the 2nd one, but will go through with any situation as to not be a prick.

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That's why incentives are important, i think you finally see why "well technically you can do it now lololol" is complete B.S.

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This is a horrible idea.

This will only force current raiders to go back and do some other event to get what they normally would have gotten from Savage.

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First of all, opinions.

Second of all if they want to get the gear faster they will run current progression and max savage tomestones there EASILY. You never have to force your static to run anything else but current progression if that's what you want to do. My idea accommodates you and everyone else. If you only need 450 savage tomestones and current progression offers around 60-80 per clear, and lets say you beat only the first fight every week thats around 240-320 tomestones. That's not even considering if you have more than one fight on lockdown for current progression, savage tomestones become easily maxed without having to run any older content that much.

People already do 60 roulette, expert, and 50 roulette many times every week.You already probably run a bunch of content that you don't care for so many times before. This is no different, and will probably end up being accepted by most people just like those roulette's. My idea of savage dungeon roulette is on a weekly clear system and would stop you from ever stepping one foot in coil, and might actually make those older dungeons new and fun to you since you actually need to work together through communication just a little.

If your static wants to run a few older fights here and there, you can always opt out if you don't want to or just muscle through it until you get further in progression where you won't feel the need to do older fights at all. In the end, if you feel the need to max out your savage tomestones which might force you to do a few older fights or savage dungeons every month thats on you, it's your choice. Other people shouldn't be robbed of the opportunity cause you don't feel like it. In the end savage has weekly gear lockouts, do you try to rush and get your clears every week? Does it bother you if you don't? I bet you won't care if you max the savage tomestones or not, also ultimately my idea allows players to do it at a slower pace to not burn out from the pressure of maxing tomestones within a limited time, i think a whole month is very fair and balanced.

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It won't. Not until they lock all good gear behind hard fights, which would decrease subs since items would be out of the hands of the casual player, which makes up a majority of the player base.

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They have done this before, and the playerbase has only continued to grow since then it goes up and down constantly but overall as of right now the player-base has increased. You assume people would quit because they wouldn't attempt the hards fights at all.I think more would try it if they had less choice in ways to obtain the best gear expanding the raiding community. Also regular tomestones would still exist still offering casual players a pretty decent ilvl.

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You just killed the entire player base or shifted them to doing Levi Ex spam which probably would still kill the entire player base. I don't know if you know this or not, but sign in's basically died during Gordias. Also a good chunk of the player base has trouble with older content, more so "the hard way." If you don't believe go spam thordan ex in a DF. Do 100 runs. Record them all and let's see how many actually win with current gear.

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The reason any players left was because the fights themselves were the only content available for MONTHS AND MONTHS. People got sick of running the same thing every week. Also another reason is because the gordias fights are pretty brutal in themselves, and with no alternatives available people just got simply burned out having only alexander to run and next to nothing else.

Thordan EX is a hard fight overall, but people don't run it at all anymore because there is no way to do it with other people who want to run it and have it count for something. Even if there is only 10,000 people accross all servers who want to run it the hard way for meaningful endgame progression, there is no way for these people to find each other.

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Because everything will stay the same with a shift of what people do in order to gear up. It's a horrible foundation. You're just redistributing emphasis of content from current content, to old. Because you THINK there is a large demand for people to go back and do content "the hard way". Which isn't true. There may be a minority, but I can tell you now a majority of people probably won't be making it past quite a few of the older fights while synced.

If it's a "pick your poison" type of ordeal, people will go to the easier fights like Levi ex or T3 or T4.

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I don't think binding coil of bahamut should be included in the savage tomestone idea at all unless they are rebalanced like my savage version of primals. Only second coil and final coil.

Also if levi ex, is retooled to a savage version why would you say it would be the easiest if the fight has new mechanics?It could easily become one of the hardest fights.Once again your ignoring my other ideas when inconvenient. However i do recognize your point...Maybe people will find a new savage primal that's easier than the others so let me make another suggestion.

Square enix make's various types of content every week give savage tomestones as sort of limited weekly challenge thing. So this week would be Levi savage, Second coil turn 3 savage, Gordias savage 2. Next week: Ifrit Savage,Final coil 1, Gordias Midas 3

Then there would be roulettes which don't allow you to choose. If players had options to max out your tomestones more easily through these, yes you could just pick the easiest fight and spam it, or maybe you would waste less of your time on doing weekly challenges.

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If it's random and with roulletes most people probably won't do it and subs will decrease because FF14 has been built as a casual game, for casual gamers, that focuses mostly on story telling. What you're looking for is FF11. A game where older content stays relevant due to how gear progression is set up.

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I do not think subs will decrease, since there is a plethora of casual content already, casual players might actually try harder content if there is more of it since if they get hit a wall with one fight, they might be open to try another that seems easier to grasp for them.

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Devil is in the detail. Slowing gear progression down really isn't a option unless their willing to try and rebuild their subscriber base. There is a reason why there are large increases in populations during Patches and Expansions. It's called new things to get and do. With no better gear out in side fights or dungeons, the population dies down faster which = money lost. Pretty basic idea.

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First of all, if you haven't done the fight before, its new to you. Keep old content relevant would be a huge boon to square enix...ESPECIALLY if they are trying to rebuild their subscriber base. It makes you feel like you didn't miss out on anything, and therefore are more willing to go back and try to do the fights that you didn't get a chance to do. More content=less burnout because they won't be running the exact same fight's every week with the plethora of options this idea introduces. If i could go back and do all the older raids the hard way in other mmo's, i would probably subscribe tomorrow.Just for the simple reason i could actually get to experience things others got to experience, and won't feel cheated that i am buying an multiple expansions for raid content that is irrelevant.

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Which wouldn't work. Have you even been through coil with purely PUGs? Let me tell you 8 out of 10 groups don't work and after 2 wipes someone is going to leave. Which equates to bad player experience which more than likely will lead to groups being made and new people not being helped. Yet again your idea is flat on it's face.

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Yes i have. I used to run turn 9 coil parties for MONTHS in party finder since i had no static at the time. It was quite a experience where i made many friends.Yes most groups failed,however, i always ended up seeing people try again after small breaks because they seen it as personal goal to themselves, from my own experiences people get frustrated, but won't always quit. If they do quit its because they had a problem with the game itself, and simply got bored of it, not because of the fight was "too hard" but the process of finding a decent party became tiresome. Hence my cross-server PF and such. My idea takes this into account, you don't need to run old content if you don't want to, and for those who do can have a larger pool of people to pull from who do.

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It's not a assumption, a majority of players stop after getting what they want. If this were not the case you'd have no reason to try and put MORE incentives and to TAKE AWAY from current content to put towards this awful idea of yours.

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That's why square enix, releases new content which would only add to the pool of content according to my idea, also if people already have what they want then that means they beat all of savage already and ready to call it a patch anyways. At least my idea might motivate half of those people to keep going and do some of the old fights that they never got a chance to do.Its a win-win for square enix and people who want to run the older content. Simply max your savage tomestones through current progression. It will be easy according to my idea considering there is savage dungeon roulette which is mid core content and wouldn't be hard to pug.

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You're just talking in circles now. Their called FC and Linkshells dude. They already exist.

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So lets add even more options for players to find parties cross server that they can consistantly run with, not everyone is logged in 24/7 or willing to do hard content every night.

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No...your idea forces a majority of already established groups to go back and redo content for no reason.

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Just say no. It's that simple. You don't need to run old content at all, my idea takes this into consideration. You simply run current progression content to max your tomes. If your group wants to run old content to max tomes, then find a new group. If you make a static for current progression, then run current progression that's what you tell them. That's what you joined.

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Pre-made party => que => go. Tomes are still attached to them and allows progression through relics, which is why when the item portion of relic weapons was discovered people rushed to do it. You know what a majority of people did though? Find n00b for bonus -> Unsync -> run through entire coil. A majority of players don't have interest of doing it.

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If 7/10 have no interest in running coil, fine. However that 3/10 between all servers would still be a fairly large number, also if content was relevant for endgame i highly doubt the majority wouldn't be interested it would be more like 5/10 people wouldn't be interest because the other half is doing newer content, and the second half is running older content that is NEW to them.

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Which was implemented more or less to help unpopulated severs. I told you that your sever wide friendlist / pf would be decent. But not in the way you want it to be.

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Even if it's only decent it would still be better than nothing.However i believe it would be more than just decent.

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Yes, to help lower populated severs find groups to do things with, which 9 times out of 10 will be towards current content.

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9/10 times sounds a bit unbelievable. Prob. more like 6/10 times, and as i said before, if you get to choose from ALL the people who want to run the content the hard way, it would make it A LOT easier to find a party for content you want to do.

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No they don't. People having limited time is another reason why your idea is falling flat on it's face. They'd actually have to beat the content, which a majority of the time, you're not going to beat a 8 man raid savage mode in a PUG.

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Which is why you get to add them to your cross-friend's list if you find someone who is pretty good, and make a cross server static.TA-DA!

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Which is why most people don't bother with old content nor savage content as a majority of the player base can't beat them, even when their over geared.

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Once again, you got a larger pool to draw from, not just your server, but many.And once again people see it as a waste of time because there is a lot of effort for no incentive. I feel like i just keep retreading the same ground over and over again. =/

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This is 100% subjective to the player and their playing conditions.

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Just like everything else in this game!

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This is yet again subjective. Some people find what you're suggesting to be a boring idea as they've already done the content a billion times over. I actually find it strange that you think it's ok to take away from Hunts for the sake of your idea. By doing that, you're now placing hunts in the same position as the old raids yet you scream and cry about players experiencing everything the way it was meant to originally be.

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First of all,almost everything is subjective. Its a very weak argument. Truth be told we don't know how my idea will impact the player-base at all. It might help it, it might hurt it. However i am firm believer that it will help it in the long run. Also hunts are not being removed, just being rebalanced so they don't let you "cheese" your way through progression as you said earlier. If you added tier six materia to hunt rewards i think people would still do them. Once again, its all about how everything is rebalanced.

Also once again, i don't consider hunts very good content....do you?Also as you said once players get geared through them they stop doing them as you said earlier. However even when people get geared through savage many parties will still run it...why? BECAUSE ITS FUNNER THAN BORING ASS HUNTS that offer no challenge at all.

I genuinely believe that if people were challenged by the content they needed to grind they would enjoy it more. The monthly cap idea is to prevent burnout.Getting people to do harder content more, but not significantly.

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TLDR: People already help each other. Their called FC's and Linkshells. Your ideas for a 'savage roullete' is horrible. Go do 100 of any EX primal, current or old. Record it and lets see how well PUGs get along, it'll show why your idea won't help new people and why people make statics for things..

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I agree with you on the toxicity of the community. Sometimes you just get arseholes who never listen, good thing this savage roulette is designed for pre-made parties and not pugs.

It would be a type of roulette for people who would want to run savage primals, but prevent them from just pick the easiest one every time since roulettes would offer savage tomestones where as normal savage primal clears would offer much lower if no savage tomestones at all if you pick and choose. I think it would be fair balance to have current progression have the most savage tomestones, and older content to have less, BUT, still have their roulette's for people who gotten good at the fights a easier way of obtaining tomes so they actually end up doing fights less if they are highly skilled.

It is true that most pugs would fall flat on their face. If you join a party finder for savage primal roulette at least everyone in the party would have cleared every fight and know them since that would a be a requirement for queing it. Savage primal roulette not the best idea, but it's better than people spamming the same easiest fight over and over again as you mentioned earlier.

I also think having only certain fights be relevant for weekly challenges might be a better alternative than picking randomly from all the hardest fights,roulettes could work, but weekly challenges is something i spawned from what you said and i might ship that now instead of roulettes, thank you for the inspiration.

I think square should add other incentives to do the savage primal fights like special gear drops like a weapon or a ring that can be upgraded through savage tokens that can be bought with savage tomestones. So you would want to do the fights to collect the tokens for the glamour/gear drops you want.

Sorry OP, but I still don't really understand your point. You say you want to run old content at the same level of challenge of when it was originally released, and have an FC of 40 people that are of the same opinion. Why aren't you running it synced with them then? The most people you will need to tackle any content is 24, so you already have more than enough?

I don't understand how the introduction of a new tomestone, to incentivise others to also tackle this old content has any bearing on anything. as you said, you already have enough people to do it, so why does it matter if anyone else joins you or not?

If the old content did somehow become relevant again, like through the introduction of a new tome, exactly the same thing would happen, as always happens - people tackling current content would speedfarm the sh!t out of it, until they had what they needed, then abandon it once more (perfect example: hunts)

@OP, like a few other people said:
*cross server party finder is coming
*cross server friend list is a good idea
*new kind of tomestone is NOT a good idea. A good amount of reason have already been made. You have to keep in mind people in general want rewards and will go with the path of less resistance. So people will check the 2 or 3 fight that give the most rewards for the less time needed, use those as farm fight and not even touch the other fights. You will just shift the problem you want to solve.

With how the game works and how people react, having relevent rewards for irrelevent content wil not work unless you redo entirely th game, basically making a new game.
It's better to do it step by step, for exemple:
-Step 1: Give incentive to people to do content synched instead of unsynched! give more rewards synched. For exemple let's say doing levi ex unsyched rewards you with 1 weapon and 100 poetics and 1 mirror, then make doing it synched reward you with 2 weapons, 200 poetics and 2 mirrors. an other option would be to double drop rate of rare items like mounts/orchestrion rolls in synched content.
-Step 2: get people to do old content! cross server party finder/linkshell/friend list will considerably help in that. But you also need a carrot, like new items. SE did that already by putting crafting material for dyeable high alagan gear, but you need to add new stuff on a regular basis. For exemple you could add a drop chance in each coil floor for a bahamut minion and/or making it possible to purchase with poetics. 3 months later you add something else on primal fights for exemple. If you want people to get back to old content that they have all the rewards from it already, you have to put new rewards in it in a regular basis. But those rewards must NOT have an influence in progression in current content, or you will kill it that much faster.

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Originally Posted by MerleSirlos

double drop rate of rare items like mounts/orchestrion rolls in synched content.

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This is effect for orchestrion rolls already.

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Originally Posted by MerleSirlos

@OP, like a few other people said:
*cross server party finder is coming
*cross server friend list is a good idea
*new kind of tomestone is NOT a good idea. A good amount of reason have already been made. You have to keep in mind people in general want rewards and will go with the path of less resistance. So people will check the 2 or 3 fight that give the most rewards for the less time needed, use those as farm fight and not even touch the other fights. You will just shift the problem you want to solve.

With how the game works and how people react, having relevent rewards for irrelevent content wil not work unless you redo entirely th game, basically making a new game.
It's better to do it step by step, for exemple:
-Step 1: Give incentive to people to do content synched instead of unsynched! give more rewards synched. For exemple let's say doing levi ex unsyched rewards you with 1 weapon and 100 poetics and 1 mirror, then make doing it synched reward you with 2 weapons, 200 poetics and 2 mirrors. an other option would be to double drop rate of rare items like mounts/orchestrion rolls in synched content.
-Step 2: get people to do old content! cross server party finder/linkshell/friend list will considerably help in that. But you also need a carrot, like new items. SE did that already by putting crafting material for dyeable high alagan gear, but you need to add new stuff on a regular basis. For exemple you could add a drop chance in each coil floor for a bahamut minion and/or making it possible to purchase with poetics. 3 months later you add something else on primal fights for exemple. If you want people to get back to old content that they have all the rewards from it already, you have to put new rewards in it in a regular basis. But those rewards must NOT have an influence in progression in current content, or you will kill it that much faster.

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

Sorry OP, but I still don't really understand your point. You say you want to run old content at the same level of challenge of when it was originally released, and have an FC of 40 people that are of the same opinion. Why aren't you running it synced with them then? The most people you will need to tackle any content is 24, so you already have more than enough?

I don't understand how the introduction of a new tomestone, to incentivise others to also tackle this old content has any bearing on anything. as you said, you already have enough people to do it, so why does it matter if anyone else joins you or not?

If the old content did somehow become relevant again, like through the introduction of a new tome, exactly the same thing would happen, as always happens - people tackling current content would speedfarm the sh!t out of it, until they had what they needed, then abandon it once more (perfect example: hunts)

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Sorry i feel like i repeat myself a lot but i really try to get my points across the best i can. If i rehash things too much...i am sorry =(.

If you make older content part of progression, and make it so the current version of progression is required in order to progress at all, i think it may actually still remain at the same relative pace. So for example if you need to clear the fights before your allowed to purchase the manifestos from midan fights then progress would relatively remain the same since most of the progression comes from clearing the fight at all, not just simply farming each week.

Also most of the 40 members who expressed interest in doing older content don't want to slow down for no reward, so they are constanty trying to get to endgame but at the same time have the same mindset, where as if you get no reward, why is it worth our limited time? I am already a part of a FC static that wants to do savage gordias for example, but they will move onto midas for actual progression giving that a new content is going to be introduced soon since they want to keep getting stronger as a motivation, they still want to do the fights, but rather do something that actually helps them get stronger faster, the only thing is holding back is lore tomestone weekly caps and lack of gear. In the end they still want to do the fights, but these fights are still a big pain with no reward as they stand


I like the extra reward for doing something unsynced, maybe crafting materials could drop from doing older content unsynced that are part of best in slot gear crafting recipes? Maybe drop tier six materia in fights that are unsycned? Or maybe have a token reward that is on a monthly cap, the monthly cap ensures that its a slow progression, which i think many people overlook when considering it. You would progress very slow in comparison to groups that get regular clears, where most groups don't get clears for progression at all for content they are currently working on. Skill is the quickest killer of content progression, too bad the majority if the raiding population isn't anywhere close to world's first achievement level.

Music scrolls, mounts, and glamour is good, but there should be other incentives to do it that makes the effort seem more worth it. If all the primal fights only droppped these things if you did it the hard way it would probably go a long way to motivating people to actually try to get better at their jobs and getting used to harder fights, alot of older fights aren't as diffcult as newer fights and could act as a progression of skill for many players instead of being neglected to undersized spam fests.

I do agree that alot of people would try to do the easiest content as much as possible, that is why I think the weekly challenge idea where only certain fights for limited time for doing fights the hard way for a weekly(or biweekly) reward would go a long way into motivating people to try older content without it being abused. In the end, i wish Square E. would offer more incentive for older fights so everyone who joins up for the first time can experience these fights the way they were meant to be. I truly believe at least some my idea's would add long terms goals and EXPAND the raiding community, not shrink it or make people unsub.