MRD is now broken just as ARC in previous patch. =_=

PGL doesn't fair well in the Ifrit battle because their best skill now has a 60s cd. Standing in close doesn't really make or break the fight with 3 mage setups. 2 mage/5 DPS setups are a lot faster though.

LNC in OP suck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rydin

I have EVERY battle class to 50 and I've done Ifrit with a few different classes and I can say.....

Glad is STILL the best tank... without question....
The most HP.. the best defensive abilities (Which may be cross class but Glad have longer times and shorter cooldowns with them), full use of Provoke (pound for pound the best hate getting ability not counting cures or damage) and the use of a shield, which, even if it doesn't proc as much, its another piece that can have materia added to it, materia like +70HP or +20 defense.... The only thing MRD does over Glad is damage. And damage is a viable hate holder... but still... thats what your DD is for. In the long haul, Glad beats MRD at tanking....

Lancer is THE BEST DPS.... Mrd hits the hardest but is TOO SLOW to one on one out DPS the Lancer, or even the Pugilist for that matter. Gear, Materia, weapons, abilities and players skill level all influence your DPS....
Lancers with Speed Surge and Pugilists with can do more DPS... trust me
Also the MRD has higher HP and uses heavy plate with more defense, so it's possible the MRD had to spend less time healing himself... Honestly, most of your parties Damage was low as crap... I have parsed the Ifrit battle fr dozens of fights... many of them wins.... (and MANY of them loses)... I can assure you.... Lancer does more damage....
And honestly, the dated banneret lance BLOWS
Ifrit Harpoon, Champion's Lance or Hart guisarme for the win....

Marauder does the best AOE damage.... but they are super slow.... once all three of your regular abilities are on cool down and you have no TP... you will sit looking at the screen for days waiting on your character to do something... anything... that is your balance... Slow hard hitting MRD, lower hitting, but super fast and crazy critting Pugilist or the balance of Lancer, that is decently quick with Speed surge and does really good damage with Doomspike... and can damage a crowd if you know what you're doing

So MRD own at the beast strongholds... let them have their shiny moment... Every one will have their place to show their stuff

---

Sorry but not, GLA is inferior to MRD in every way in the Ifrit encounter, I have tried with both MRD and GLA personaly, and I'm close to around 50-60 attempts and 14 or so kills (had alot of problems with posisions and animation lagg etc)

But both me and everyone I've been with all can easily agree MRD is superior, MRD takes less damage due to parry being WAY more reliable then block, MRD do around 3-4x the damage GLA does, MRD can hold hate easily without even using provoke (warmonger and pure DPS as well as second wind2 self heal is plenty enough).

Having equal experience on tanking Ifrit as both classes I can say that MRD makes the fight alot easier both in terms of how fast you kill, the strain on healers and no need for DD to hold back dps (2-3 of our LNC sports ifrit harpoons).

Tanking on GLA hate is somehing that constantly needs to monitored and the GLA has to spend alot of time just using accomplice drums voke etc to maintain good aggro on the boss.

For smaller content such as beastmen strongholds GLA has much higher survability but in AOE fights they have little to no chance to hold hate well.

GLA desperatly needs a huge buff in both dd, emnity and dmg migniation on high end content, unless the devs realise how broken GLA is atm we wont have a fix until PLD is out.

I rolled a GLA as main to tank, not to have its only use being a rank 36 ability, I want to tank with sword and board like tradional RPG tanks do...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Choyi

Sorry but not, GLA is inferior to MRD in every way in the Ifrit encounter, I have tried with both MRD and GLA personaly, and I'm close to around 50-60 attempts and 14 or so kills (had alot of problems with posisions and animation lagg etc)

But both me and everyone I've been with all can easily agree MRD is superior, MRD takes less damage due to parry being WAY more reliable then block, MRD do around 3-4x the damage GLA does, MRD can hold hate easily without even using provoke (warmonger and pure DPS as well as second wind2 self heal is plenty enough).

Having equal experience on tanking Ifrit as both classes I can say that MRD makes the fight alot easier both in terms of how fast you kill, the strain on healers and no need for DD to hold back dps (2-3 of our LNC sports ifrit harpoons).

Tanking on GLA hate is somehing that constantly needs to monitored and the GLA has to spend alot of time just using accomplice drums voke etc to maintain good aggro on the boss.

For smaller content such as beastmen strongholds GLA has much higher survability but in AOE fights they have little to no chance to hold hate well.

GLA desperatly needs a huge buff in both dd, emnity and dmg migniation on high end content, unless the devs realise how broken GLA is atm we wont have a fix until PLD is out.

I rolled a GLA as main to tank, not to have its only use being a rank 36 ability, I want to tank with sword and board like tradional RPG tanks do...

---

Yes Glad needs damage buff.... But enmity? not at all... When you think about Damage IS enmity....
Also Glad gets full enmity from Provoke, which is the biggest enmity generator, aside from damage and cure....
Glads provoke has the lowest cooldown, SO does Sentinel, Obsess and Rampart, which on Glad can be used a lot more often....
Parry doesn't proc any more frequently than blocks for me... and thats parsed data....
If Glad had Storm's path that generated enmity and did the same damage then we would be saying Glad is OP
All Glad needs is a Storm's path type ability that does that kind of damage, even if it isn't AOE and all would be rig with the world

Glad does not take more damage than MRD in any way shape or form.... so technically, MRD isn't better than glad on Ifrit in every way... just in one specific way

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rydin

Glad does not take more damage than MRD in any way shape or form.... so technically, MRD isn't better than glad on Ifrit in every way... just in one specific way

---

But in fact they do, block is not 100% avoidance chance, while parry trough foresight is, with the limited amount of attacks which CAN be avoided on Ifrit having a reliable ability DOES make the MRD take less dmg (even a GLA NOT using shield and using foresight will come out taking less dmg) we have done extensive testing on this.

Rampart and sentinel can both be subbed with swordsmanship granting almost exact same duration and mignation (rampart rly needs a buff to warrant it long cooldown) obsess is totaly useless vs Ifrit subbed or not.
Using voke more often isnt agood argument since MRD tank does not need to use it at all, all it does is making you use another GCD (gloobal cooldown, excuse the WoW-ish term) meaning youre not swinging at that time doing nay dmg.
On top of all GLA got a huge nerf with 1.19 with not being able to parry at all, not even with Foresight, unless they unequip their shield.

And the thing is, even if they where equal in dmg taken, why would you got with a tank that does around 5k dmg a fight instead of a tank which can put out 12-15k a fight?
Not to mentioned that MRD can selfheal more often with Bloodthirst stacked with buffed maim or similar for 450-600 hp.

While I've disagreed with you for most of the post I have to agree with one thing, GLA definatly needs a Storms Path type ability (Riot blade simply does not cut it, especialy with the pacify debuff you get from it).

Besides that either GLA needs a big defensive boost or MRD needs a defensive nerf, cause atm on content that people will care for min maxing they will look at both MRD and GLA, see the damage taken is very even and in some cases even favors the MRD slightly and say "well, to make the fight easier we better take the tank who will do 20% of Ifrits Hp in dmg."

In Darkhold some groups favored MRD tanks, but with a tradeoff, MRD took quite a bit more dmg on Batraal (back when GLA shield skills actualy did jack) in turn for doing a lot more damage thus better their chances to make a speed run.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alise

First of all, in general idea that most people would find it balance :

In term attack :
PGL as 1 v 1 focus on highest Dps.
MRD as in focus on highest Dps to AoE.
LNC ,with many AoE and single skills, should be ranked in second as in 1v1 and AoE in Dps.

In term of defend :
PGL focus on evasion.
MRD focus on HP and def.
LNC focus on his distant attack and WS drain ability. ( you notice big use of this distant in Ifrit fight)

However, what is MRD really become now is...

-Better choice as tank than GLA. (notice all advance team in Ifrit fight use MRD as tank? also this happened in Orge fight back on 1.18 too.)
-Strongest AoE DPs.
-Strongest 1v1 Dps. !! (This is what surprised me, but it is still debatable as second best! )

From the 1v1 Dps, I saw it from data of parsar that my MRD friend showed me in Ifrit fight:

From this, it is noticeable jump in total damage. from LNC to MRD. which is not acceptable when MRD has much higher HP and chance to survive in the fight. It is debatable that the players who play LNC isn't good enough. However, you know this is a big jump in data, and MRD has malm that help everybody in PT to do more damage too. (this doesn't shown in parsar, because it boost everyone)


In Stronghold :
- MRD is most favor class because of its known best AoE attack, and that some NM boss key farming PT will form the team with fewest people and selection choice as MRD.

In Ifrit :
- MRD is the better choice than GLA for advance team tanking, and he is also insert into DD team too, while PGL on the another hand, is not favor at all in this fight.

Conclusion :
- patch 1.19 = the Patch of MRD.

---

Funny...I break 3k with my lancer...barely reach 2.5k with my mrd in terms of hp...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

this is a bad concept, of old biases.

---

No its called balanced and fair gameplay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Irana

Funny...I break 3k with my lancer...barely reach 2.5k with my mrd in terms of hp...

---

Odd in dd gear my MRD has around 3.1k and in tank gear reaching 3.8k, but I haven't notice a big difference in HP between Pug Mrd or Lnc since 1.19 theyre alll pretty much the same give or take a 100 hp .... Are you playing 1.18 still perhaps? =D

If DD have to hold back for any reason you're doing it wrong even as Gladiator. Plenty of hate tools for pretty much any class to hold hate if they want to.

That said, I agree that Gladiators need something to define them as tanks, as right now there is no reason to bring one to anything be it spirtbond grinds, dungeons, or Ifrit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Madruk

If DD have to hold back for any reason you're doing it wrong even as Gladiator. Plenty of hate tools for pretty much any class to hold hate if they want to.

That said, I agree that Gladiators need something to define them as tanks, as right now there is no reason to bring one to anything be it spirtbond grinds, dungeons, or Ifrit.

---

Yes, GLA, ARC, PGL, have the same problem now that they aren't useful in PT as LNC/MRD.
I think they shouldn't make MRD be this good in tanking to begin with. With an end-game content such as Ifrit, they should make it that MRD can't survive as tank, so people will be forced to use Gla.

For ARC, may be add some content that need range attack more. since I think it is good that ARC is not the highest Dps anymore.

For PGL, I m not sure his definite role in PT,.. may be he should have more 1v1 Dps buff to make it more outstanding than LNC/MRD and add content that require evasion.