Bard and Wanderer's Minuet use it

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Originally Posted by Adire

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I didn't say it's okay to hurt players. I was answering to you thinking hurting people has no impact on SE, which is wrong.

Also, I fail to understand how trying to make SE change their mind is futile.
Many brds feel they killed a job we loved and we're enjoying it a lot less than during 2.0. If we can have our fun back, it's worth a shot.

Unsubbing would be a bit extreme. I like the game and don't want to stop playing. I do think the expansion is lackluster, but there are a lot of things I enjoy.
As for the lazy part, i was refering to job design, not the whole expac.

Still not seeing the point of having WM or GB in the game at all tbh... Or even why it was thought to be a good idea to stick the same skill on two jobs, might awell give mundra's to DRG's whilst we are at it -_-

I know you can stance dance and stuff but MCH atm are just keeping GB on, so what is the point in having it as an ability if it is going to be pretty much mandatory anyway? Casting could've just been a standard for the job with a 30% boost and no autos and it would be exactly the same...

Just seems very lazy.

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Originally Posted by Aezelas

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SE won't even know about bards who choose to not use WM unless they cry on the forums or do it so much and so often that it provokes regular players to complain on the forums about the trend.

Some bards have been parsing decent numbers with some effort since the last patch. The fault is not on SE, the fault is on players who choose to be lazy (or the players who expect to do substantial dps without having more complexity in their job)

So you're wrong. It won't hurt SE. Players will simply notice the bards who have adapted and prefer them over bards who choose to ignore WM. Players won't be quitting just because a bunch of bards don't want to use WM. They will only be annoyed when they get one who doesn't in a group. That will not hurt SE.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Edit. Holy crap look who's being hypocritical! You literally told bards to go play without WM if they don't like it. Hahaha :D

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Way to take a quote out of context.

Did you not see fanservice say mediocre damage?

Highly doubt they would have said that if they actually supported bards choosing to not use WM.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Sarcasm btw. I'm not really some elitist who advocates kicking people for not playing perfectly. As long as the duty is cleared we're good. People bothered by less efficient playstyles should stop playing with random people to save theirselves from a headache. Telling people to quit because they don't play the way you want them to? Now that is disgusting and quite frankly it's the people like that who the community would be better off without.

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I had floor 1 wipes the other day due to a lack of DPS of all things. One of our 3 bards never used minuet. At all. Ever. Why else do you think I have a problem with that?

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Telling people to quit because they don't play the way you want them to?

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I'm telling people to quit instead of willingly taking their frustration on SE's design out on other people's time via DF. Huge difference. Do not twist my words.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Edit. Holy crap look who's being hypocritical! You literally told bards to go play without WM if they don't like it. Hahaha :D



Wonder how many other people complaining in this thread have posted something along the lines of "if you don't like it, don't use it".

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Misses the context of 'doing that on your own time, not mine or anyone else'. I also never said other people should accept your mediocre damage outside of minuet.

BRDs can do that if they want to, but I never said anyone playing with them should be okay with it, and I'm very clearly not okay with it.

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Originally Posted by Underdog2204

Still not seeing the point of having WM or GB in the game at all tbh... Or even why it was thought to be a good idea to stick the same skill on two jobs, might awell give mundra's to DRG's whilst we are at it -_-

I know you can stance dance and stuff but MCH atm are just keeping GB on, so what is the point in having it as an ability if it is going to be pretty much mandatory anyway? Casting could've just been a standard for the job with a 30% boost and no autos and it would be exactly the same...

Just seems very lazy.

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I keep GB on most of the time but it is useful switching it off for mobility when needed.

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Originally Posted by Orbiaus

I keep GB on most of the time but it is useful switching it off for mobility when needed.

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How often is that though?

Doesn't seem to be enough occasions to warrant a full skill slot imo. It's not like being a healer were it's needed to solo effectivly.

Again to me it just seems very lazy and could've been the way to make MCH stand out, but nope they make it a skill and give to to BRD aswell...

Well thanks SE...

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

Because I didn't roll and main a bard to have the playstyle completely change in the expansion. I'll see if it's now at least useable after the fixes, but I'm primarily going to continue playing the way I want. Thanks.

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I know it's already been said, but wow. I'm amazed and horrified that this is getting any sort of support, let alone that it seems to be the prevailing opinion in this thread. This is practically the definition of childish. There are perfectly reasonable ways to express dissatisfaction, and this is not close to being one of them.

I don't expect everyone to be super-pro-elite all the time, but there's a huge difference between expecting perfect execution, and expecting people to not intentionally lower their contribution. If this attitude really takes hold among bards, the rest of us are not going to point our frustration at SE; we're gonna direct it at brds. Please don't make yourselves a hated job. It's entirely avoidable.

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Originally Posted by Underdog2204

How often is that though?

Doesn't seem to be enough occasions to warrant a full skill slot imo. It's not like being a healer were it's needed to solo effectivly.

Again to me it just seems very lazy and could've been the way to make MCH stand out, but nope they make it a skill and give to to BRD aswell...

Well thanks SE...

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Not too often but MCH isn't my main and this is based on dungeons. Im not lvl 60 yet so raids might require more switching.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

As long as the duty is cleared we're good.

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Yes, sure. At the end, if you got through, sure.

But if you're actively sabotaging your own DPS, you're deliberately providing an obstacle to the group's ability to clear. Even if you meet enough for the enrage, the longer fights go on the more chance there is for things to go wrong. DPS is not a responsibility free role. I healed a Singularity Reactor last night where the big attack at the end was only barely survived and I had to do bloody everything I could in healing, raising, and DPS in order to get us to the point it didn't kill us. The Singularity Reactor, for chrissakes, possibly the single most free fight I've seen since Leviathan (Hard) -- no, wait, there's a legitimate reason you might wipe in Levi (Hard).

Which, hey, not everyone's fantastic, and I don't expect that. We got through it, so it was okay - but it was a crapload more work than it needed to be. But the more someone slacks at their own performance the more other people have to work to make up for it. Some people literally don't know how to do better, and while that's frustrating, I can't really hold that against them. But if you're choosing not to when you know how to improve your performance... I'm really sorry, but that's to say "Other people can make up for what I do", and that's just rude - and potentially disastrous when you're matched with other people taking the same attitude.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

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That is not saying much. This community has always abused classes they don't feel is up to par, or does not equal to what they want in groups. The whole community thing, and respect to each other has been lost long ago. We will play bard how we enjoy it, and if we get kicked out of groups. That is a small price to pay for what we find enjoyable.