Getting refused to EX groups as a DRK

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Originally Posted by Illya

New jobs get discriminated against because idiots don't understand them, the story of every MMO ever. Sorry OP, I hope you have WAR or PLD leveled so you can get by until people stop beings stupid.

What scares me is how "WAR is OP" is the new forum meme, if they give us the nerfbat because people are stupid they are going to make a LOT of WAR players really angry, especially after what we endured for 3 months during 2.0.

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WAR's damage output is a bit high as OT, but honestly, I feel that they, and PLD, are in a fine place. Between the option of buffing DRK to match those two, or nerfing WAR and PLD to match DRK, I think the solution is pretty obvious.

If anything, WAR only looks so good right now because we have a few DPS classes that are really struggling. Fix those guys, and WAR's damage output won't seem so egregious.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

And a completely different game from a different team with an overly complex and impossible to balance job mechanic is relevant because?

Even the issues we have now that we got three new jobs in one update are not as big as some people seem to believe.

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Because it falls under "SE" history of job balancing. The game also originally belonged to the same creators of 11, and we're still using a lot of the core design set in place by them.

11 wasn't broken in day. 14 won't be either. Thus we've still got a lot of time before "SE" has a "history" of good job balancing.

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Originally Posted by Viviza

This sounds like a story we're only getting half of.

I've yet to see a group really care about this. I suspect that the player has something to do with it, or is exaggerating.

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Try on Balmung, we may be an RP server but we got alot of min/maxers for groups. It isn't me of my skill, its cause I'm a DRK stated by *them*. Most already know about the Dark Arts fix so we can't double stack it and alot already know about the DRK mana bug too so they don't want none of that most likely and I'm not exaggerating. So far, you've gotten groups thats less strict then the ones I was trying to get into. Shoot, its hard enough to get into an EX mode PuG whileout all the nit picking and I DARN sure not gonna buy a dumb EX from those dang FC runners.

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Originally Posted by Delorean

how many people here even have their sights set on savage though?

that's my point - all this obsession with min maxing and most people play in a group where it doesn't matter and are holding themselves to a standard for a facet of content they will probably not even complete.

if you are focusing on that content then you know that you can't expect a developer to fix your favorite class for you to play and you will have to use what you've got.

but for this low end stuff? every class is viable

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Very true, but thats no excuse for DRK wanting to be on par with the other tanks, which it is not.

People are idiots. Just they need a TANK's DPS to TRY and meet the DPS check. The DPS need to be replaced, get better gear, or just in general get good.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

People are idiots. Just they need a TANK's DPS to TRY and meet the DPS check. The DPS need to be replaced, get better gear, or just in general get good.

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Or....they balance encounters with tank dps in mind because....spoiler alert: tanks do damage too

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Originally Posted by Slappah

Or....they balance encounters with tank dps in mind because....spoiler alert: tanks do damage too

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Yes, it's become pretty obvious now that the dev mindset has really changed to include tank DPS as a major part of any given encounter's set of standards. We can't just go into zombie mode once we have a strong aggro lead during DPS checks anymore.

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Originally Posted by Slappah

Or....they balance encounters with tank dps in mind because....spoiler alert: tanks do damage too

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That is true, but if you can't meet the dps check the fact that you have a DRK in your party is not the reason.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

My point was every class via for the current game but when endgame begins in two weeks all the flaws of every class will be exposed. I do not predict too many DRKs being used during Progression but I'm sure there will be a few.

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and i get that

but for most players any change will not be making a lot of difference. you can't depend on developers at that level, you have to make due with what you have. the player in question has also leveled paladin, I suspect just in case they decide that they need it. or maybe they prefer it, i do not know - but they have played it for now and done fine with it so this "A DRK is going to make my Ravana harder" crap is just lol

and it'll be crap when alexander opens up too

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Or....they balance encounters with tank dps in mind because....spoiler alert: tanks do damage too

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well i've said it before and i'll say it again - if you are relying on a tank for damage on a DPS check there is a 99.9% chance that there is something else wrong with your group like not executing mechanics correctly, having bad DPS damage output or you are pushing content early.

a lot of people fancy themselves amazing players but most people really can't even imagine what it is like to be going for server ranks when it is really competitive. it's literally staring at a dragon until it kills you longer than you have probably ever worked. pre-prepared meals ready to eat cold during short breaks. grueling hours and hours of wiping to the same shit, just to do it again tomorrow or next week or to fuck with a boss that is just as hard as that one next.

if a good tank only does as much DPS as a bad DPS can do it is not going to hurt you much to be missing 15% of that on content that was designed for many players to access. your job as a tank is to survive and make your damage spikes predictable or easier to deal with.

when you are on that level, then you can worry about your tank's DPS

it's like yeah u can look back and be like well if we had a WAR instead of a DRK... but there's a pretty good chance you can also be like Well if WHM didnt get stunned and die to mechanic and MNK would have been attacking the right target or if BRD would figure out a way to stop kiting like dogshit...

Thing is, when you're struggling to muscle through that content with a team of bad pugs, there's really only one person who's performance you can control, and that is your own. And while, as a tank, you shouldn't have to be responsible for making up that difference, the ability to do so goes a long way towards surviving through the trial and protecting your own sanity.

And from the perspective of someone who might be considering that possibility in creating a party, having a tank who can make up for an under performing DPS would be in their interests for the same, obvious reasons. And to that extent, since DRK offers nothing to make up for that difference in performance, the solution of the party's ideal composition is simple.