I want to stop playing Summoner.... But I cant

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Originally Posted by Gardes

You can beat both t10 and t11 with 2 ha weapon dps and 2 soldiery weapon (one of them the smn) by at least 40 seconds from enrage. Dunno about t12 and 13 cause we arent on i115 weapon or below anymore but I dont see how smn is a liability in dps checks when everyone has the required gear and performing as best as they can be. Havent seen too much of t13 though.

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Because that's already outgearing what's truly required. What you're basically saying is "If you're willing to wait for progression, SMN does okay." To put it in context, NIN cleared T13 before either DRG or SMN.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Because that's already outgearing what's truly required. What you're basically saying is "If you're willing to wait for progression, SMN does okay." To put it in context, NIN cleared T13 before either DRG or SMN.

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Not sure what youre getting at. If the requirement is to beat every thing as a smn before the 3rd week of fcob season start then I guess I'd see your point but as far I know everyone is already past that time limit. No point in fussing on whether the smn in a group with i115 weapons only is holding the team back because they wouldnt be in i115 weapons only. Pretty sure most groups would have fully outfitted their dps with magitek weapons by now?

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Not sure what youre getting at. If the requirement is to beat every thing as a smn before the 3rd week of fcob season start then I guess I'd see your point but as far I know everyone is already past that time limit. No point in fussing on whether the smn in a group with i115 weapons only is holding the team back because they wouldnt be in i115 weapons only. Pretty sure most groups would have fully outfitted their dps with magitek weapons by now?

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I've said it before, and I'll say it again: DRG before the buff was in this exact state. We all knew that some shiny new gear would let it clear T13, but no one wanted it in progression because it was a liability. DRG got fixed. Why shouldn't SMN?

Never said I am against any buffs for smn. Hell i have a smn in my group so it would benefit me as well. Aside from that, you seem to use the word progression in terms of global scale, not personal group scale. We wont really have anything else until expansion's alexander and by then it would be a whole different ball game with level cap increase, new skill, new itemization, etc. I just think liability is too strong a word to describe a smn.

Side note: my smn and others told me they watched a stream of some guide maker who finally beat t12 and their smn was a full blown clicker and was dropping dots left and right. I mean, if THAT gets a pass..

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Never said I am against any buffs for smn. Hell i have a smn in my group so it would benefit me as well. Aside from that, you seem to use the word progression in terms of global scale, not personal group scale. We wont really have anything else until expansion's alexander and by then it would be a whole different ball game with level cap increase, new skill, new itemization, etc. I just think liability is too strong a word to describe a smn.

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Granted. Just, it kinda seems wrong to drop the current issue just because gear is making up for it. I mean, it *could* all change with the expansion, but if nothing ever gets said about it, there's no way to know if SE is going to change anything.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

You can beat both t10 and t11 with 2 ha weapon dps and 2 soldiery weapon (one of them the smn) by at least 40 seconds from enrage. Dunno about t12 and 13 cause we arent on i115 weapon or below anymore but I dont see how smn is a liability in dps checks when everyone has the required gear and performing as best as they can be. Havent seen too much of t13 though.

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Can beat both T10 and T11 with just HA weapons using a SMN, with 40 seconds to spare. My first T12 win was with all HA weapons except the Monk who just got the Tombstone from T11 so they upgraded.

T13 has the same DPS check as T12, you just need to meld some VIT accessories with only i110 body pieces.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Because that's already outgearing what's truly required. What you're basically saying is "If you're willing to wait for progression, SMN does okay." To put it in context, NIN cleared T13 before either DRG or SMN.

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SMN does take a bit longer to map out a fight to make the most of your resources, VS pew pew BLM. This would be especially difficult while figuring out mechanics on top of things. Other than that, BLM and SMN were fairly close damage wise with only i110 crafted.
Because FCOB has very limited movement, I could see why BLM would have been preferred for progression.
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I do hope things are addressed for the expansion. As people reach i131 the difference becomes very noticeable. Luckily it's not an issue for any current content.

Well with 2.5 just around the corner, I'm hoping for a better BiS gear selection.

FCoB has very little movement?
T10 - Charge move and having to step in and out of stuff.
T11 - Add phase where you have to rotate around the arena, avoid gas and work with the pairing mechanics
T12 - Not that much movement
T13 - Earth shaker, flare stars, mega flare

Generally, it's pretty much the same as second coil. T6 you have the binding mechanic to which to non BLM will usually move. You could ocassionally move with them and move into branches. That was alright.
T7 you could have the Shriek and move to the back. That's pretty much the only movement you do.
T8, no movement at all unless assigned
T9, Meteors and divebombs

Final coil seems more movement heavy to me. Imperative movement that is

Also you reducing Black Mages to just pew pew just shows how ignorant you are over the class. I dare you to get over 500 DPS on T11. I dare you to pew pew your way through it. If anything, Summoner is a lot easier to achieve good DPS on a fight where the mechanics are rather unknown. At least to me this was the case. Black Mage isn't too difficult either, but to have a reductionist view makes little sense.

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Originally Posted by ViviAnimus

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I got 510 with an i125 weapon, one battle voiced foes and a 10% crit ratio. There really isn't much movement to be done here. You can just eat the gases if you have no procs/swiftcasts, weave your spells on the adds phase if you want to dodge the ground AOEs and for the last phase, unless you are REALLY unlucky and get every single tether, pushing 500+ really isn't that hard.

However, I do agree with your second statement about SMN doing more DPS when you are still unfamiliar with the fight. BLM is the kind of class that to achieve max DPS, you have to be perfectly familiar with the fight and mechanics to know when to save your buffs, swiftcasts, etc.