Tanks That Hate Fluid Aura

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Originally Posted by SummonerSenah

This.

Also, it's annoying for melee dps to have to chase down mobs as well. Particularly for monk/pugilist, it's easy to lose the greased lightning buff if you spend half of its timer chasing mobs that someone else knocked away.

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Another great reason not to. I am a WAR, a MNK, and a WHM, and let me tell you, if you are going to DPS, you should just stick to Aero for DoT and Stone II for attack. A tank is going to usually direct and command the dps based on their tank style. They are responsible for controlling the mobs so why shouldn't they be allowed to have full say in how they tank? They will want to minimize any possibility of losing control. You are clearly working against that. As Summoner stated, a MNK will lose its greased lightning stack therefore losing alot of DPS until they can go through the combos and get the stacks up again. To get 3 stacks, the monk must do 3 combos. So not only did you take some degree of control from the tank, you took valuable DPS away as well. As a WHM i use it as a last resort, but you are just being irresponsible, and completely inconsiderate to the rest of the party. If anyone was the problem it was you.

I think there is strategic sense in using Fluid Form on secondary/tertiary mobs, not just doing it to troll or have fun with my abilities (although it's absurd to think I should ever be denied the latter!)

Just to clarify, I don't knock these mobs out of AOEs if they're being AOE'd and I don't knock them back if melee DPS is attacking them (they're SECONDARY/TERTIARY targets). And there is a point beyond just meager damage and that's that it decreases damage the tank takes (because you know the mob isn't there for a few seconds attacking them). Healers don't JUST heal. Their skills like Virus, Stoneskin, Protect etc. also help by reducing the incoming damage not JUST healing it after it's already been dealt. I think Fluid Form is underutilized for this (removing an enemy from the fight for several seconds is significant). I can't fathom why someone would only use it when it DOESN'T knock back the mob.

In most cases, after I use Fluid Form, the tank doesn't lose hate (remember also that in my example, we were talking about Tam Tara - healer doesn't need to heal much and the DPS they do to the main target isn't going to increase hate on the secondary/tertiary targets). If the tank DOES lose hate, then they just need to Flash a single time (but usually we're moving on to attack that target anyway so they don't even have to do that). Tank is keeping enmity, I'm helping keep everyone alive, and we all can do a little more damage.

But go ahead and tell me I'm wrong. FFXIV forums, I love you so :)

Sadly I've seen enough CNJ/WHMs use it just for laughs, knowing it stresses other players unneededly, so the move has gotten a bad rep (Carby's knockback move to some degree too). I can understand why some people just ask it not be used at all.

Look at the general context of when a CNJ gets Fluid Aura. You get it at level 15 when story-wise you are still expected to solo things in fights. It knocks the enemy away from you, which is important for a caster. It's a move that makes sense and is really great for solo content.

Once in a party, however, it becomes much more situational and less the go-to. If you want to do damage on a mob while in a party, a CNJ/WHM has other options that don't invoke ire or cause unnecessary stress. No one needs to knock a mob away from the tank (one would hope). As others have pointed out, if you just gotta get your fluid aura on, position it so its not moving the enemy, or at least not moving it so much that tanks are on chase alert, thinking they've lost hate on an enemy. This is especially important in the early dungeons when many people are still new to party environment (tanks & damage dealers alike) and learning to juggle multiple enemies and hate with minimal tools themselves. Don't use it on non-focus enemies unless you're really hurting on tank healing or its coming for you and the tank hasn't made a move to retrieve it. There are other situations too, as others here have listed, but fluid aura is really not intended to be a move to spam when it comes off of cooldown. The damage is minimal and more about the pushback and bind.

People want to play smarter, not harder, so less stress the better. Aim fluid aura at walls or enemies that can't be knocked back, otherwise go for other spells in your repertoire.

OK, you're wrong. For all the reasons everyone's already explained, when they shouldn't have had to explain it.

But good on you for throwing your name out there so anyone who reads here might remember your name if they see you in a DF party.

I have no tank classes leveled, but when I was leveling BLM I had a group with a WHM who used as a part of her regular rotation. This would have been okay if she did it right, but it always caused line of sight issues and would interrupt my casts. I asked her to stop, to which she said she's not gonna sacrifice her DPS for mine. First I explained to her that she can use it if she wants, but to make sure it doesn't push the mob far. She said no. Then I told her I was out DPSing her by miles, and that WHM dps only complements normal DPS. She didn't care. It was about what she wanted, since she was the one paying her sub.

TLDR: Fluid Aura is fine to use, if used properly. If it is affecting the other classes in the party in a negative way, don't use it.

Edit: I just read the whole thread and now I'm pretty convinced the OP was the WHM in my group. Trolling here, trolling there.

Secondary/Tertiary targets are irrelevant if the tank has to move to get that mob back because you just messed up the rotation/placement on the primary mob because they're following the tank.

You are 100% correct a good healer does more than just heal. You, however, are not removing that mob from play the way you think you are. That mob is still in play if it's not slept. It doesn't matter how far away it is, those enmity bars are still going up. And no, one Flash/Overpower will not be enough to get hate back if you've heal spammed and/or continued to DPS the mob you pushed out of range. That's not how enmity works. No, you're not in any real danger in Tam-tara, but you can't keep hiding behind that.

I primarily play whm. Fluid aura is a defense ability.

If something is attacking you- use it. Otherwise use your dps abilities, using this is just annoying and will get you kicked.

I am shocked at the number of irritating people roll whm and troll groups with this skill.

IMO:
- the tank is the captain in game. You have to assist him.
Take aggro and keep it is a real problem sometime for them. Aura fluid is a emrgency cast very handful if you use it wisely.

Personaly, i use it only in two situations :
- when i take a agro,
- when the tank miss a stun. If i'm closed to him, a little run and a fluid aura may save us.
Other than that, you have better spell...

ITT "if I ask you to modify your play style, and you don't, that qualifies as harassment and I will kick you. If you ask me to modify my play style, I will cry about it and kick you anyway."

Sorry but this is all I'm seeing from both sides while reading this thread.

Fluid Aura was made so that when healer get hates, they can last a bit long by sending the mobs away, enough for tank to get some hate.

Its not for funsies if it affects dps or hate rotation.