Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

I must have been hallucinating the snippet of a clip I saw of female hrothgar during the fan fest, I feel like they were cloaked and all you could see was their face...

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I feel the gender swapped Kimahri fanart would look better if the face was just... less human (why is face human and completely different from male Kimahri and the females themselves in X?). Make it more feline (like the males) and we golden. I won't personally play them (maybe. I do swap to female Roegadyn from time to time so who knows), but I am sick of games with playable beasts letting males be bestial in appearance and females mostly being humans with maybe beast ears and tail. I want to see more games do what GW2 does with the Charr and less what games like Tera (looking at you, Aman) and Bless do.

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I'm not at all worried about their face, SE know how to make pretty regardless of which direction they go.

And as for Charr, I love Charr ... but Hrothgar are not Charr. Charr are legit cat monster things that stand almost completely horizontally, run on all 4s and their hands are just palms with giant bones sticking outta their nubs. Hrothgar are just furries aka animal people. It would make zero sense for a Female Charr to look anything like a human.

On the topic of GW2 races, I remember this bit of data ...
"Overall, there's a slight bias towards people making female characters, but things seem quite even. On a per-race basis, however, things are not quite so even. There are a lot of lonely Human and Norn females out there. Charr, on the other hand, are a total sausagefest."

I love that in a game like GW2 with such a diverse line up, over all, all non-humans have pretty much the same play rate. Norn female (And everyone's favorite new RE character) show that western players are not averse to large women. But what turns Charr into the least played race in GW2 is the fact that so few play female Charr and what makes Femroe the least played in FF14 is that people don't like their masculine shape.

So yeah, I'd love to see more games do Charr like things. But that's not FF14, everything here is human shaped. There are def ways to make a female Hrothgar without making them males with boobs or look completely human, I'm sure the devs will deliver something great.

Oh I use Charr as an example of how to do beast races right (both are beasts, rather than one being a beast and the other being a kemonomimi), not as an example of how the female Hrothgar should look (well... not directly, anyway). Bestial face is all I ask for (and completely different from Au Ra and Miqo'te, body-wise). None of this human face nonsense.

At that point just play the male, if the only difference is a set of boobs thr number of people who will play female hrothgar will legit be in the triple digits

if we're not getting them the next expansion at least show us some official art of how they will look like T_T .. i really really hope they are not just a taller version of miqo

They wont be just hyur with lion ears i can say that much with confidence

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Originally Posted by Frooty

At that point just play the male, if the only difference is a set of boobs thr number of people who will play female hrothgar will legit be in the triple digits

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well the only significant different with male viera is a lack of boobs yet people are crazy about that for some reason, it'll have it's fanbase don't worry about that.

If Femgar are feral looking Lionesses then I'll try em out. But if they end up just being female bodybuilders with fur and very much have a man's body with a woman's head then it'll be a hard pass.

I like the large and in charge status of Femroes but I keep going back to Thighlander for a more balanced athletic build.

I honestly expect Femgars to just be Femroe with kittyface.

I've love to see something what Cheetara from Thundercats.

One thing I will say is that Femgar need to have wild hair and definitely sharp ass claws.

I would really like them to be taller than the males. If there ever needs to be a race where the females are taller than the dudes then please make it the Queens.

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

https://i.imgur.com/Be7t9HQ.jpg

This is a picture of my Khajit from ESO. I know it’s not the best quality but I love the way she looks and wanted to share her face. I did accidentally make her a little thin and I plan to change that someday. Khajit, especially females, are really popular in ESO. I also see a ton of werewolves everywhere. I don’t think ffxiv will embrace femhroth with quite as big numbers, but I definitely believe if they are done right, a fair amount of people will play them. It’s my hope they do a ffxiv version of the Khajit, but I also like some of the other arts posted. My only real fear is the hunch look. :)

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I want Square Enix to do what wow did with the Orc's and to fix the hunched look on Hrothgar that people don't like. It wouldn't be impossible. I mean just how many Hroth npcs are there anyway.

The Demands are simple.
1- Make them look like Real Cat people like they did the Males. Dont smoosh in the face and make them look like Humans.
2- Make them tall strong Warrior types, like the FemRoe, and the "source material" since apparently they are modeled after Ronso

Saw this one shared around:

https://i.imgur.com/R12Qze5.png

I cropped it. Full original on Twitter. It's apparently a hrothgar nier character. I think that's a pretty good look for lady hroth. :)

Credit: @Mr_jonnasse

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Saw this one shared around:
https://i.imgur.com/R12Qze5.png

I cropped it. Full original on Twitter.

Credit: @Mr_jonnasse

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https://media1.tenor.com/images/8246...itemid=5465563

I might just copy my Khajiit over to 14, depending. Though, Kore is a tiny little warden in the land of Tamriel, it would be fun to reimagine her as a big warrior.

https://i.imgur.com/AuIypRs.png

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I want Square Enix to do what wow did with the Orc's and to fix the hunched look on Hrothgar that people don't like. It wouldn't be impossible. I mean just how many Hroth npcs are there anyway.

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I've never understood why anyone would want the hunch on females when it's the most hated thing on Hrothgar males. But that seems to be the theme here, people let the backlash to sexual dimorphism tropes blind them. As for fixing it on males I'd think it would be as easy as giving them an optional walk cycle and 1-2 more C-poses where they stand straight and that would do it. They should do the same for Elezen TBH, their run cycle is trash, but YP already said that because it's in the game some players who play Elezen may like it, so they don't want to take it away from them.

I wish someone could ask them directly if they could add a C-pose system for run and walk cycles. :/

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Saw this one shared around:

https://i.imgur.com/R12Qze5.png

I cropped it. Full original on Twitter. It's apparently a hrothgar nier character. I think that's a pretty good look for lady hroth. :)

Credit: @Mr_jonnasse

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The art is nice, I dig that style.
But no to that face for FemHroth

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I might just copy my Khajiit over to 14, depending. Though, Kore is a tiny little warden in the land of Tamriel, it would be fun to reimagine her as a big warrior.

https://i.imgur.com/AuIypRs.png

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I think there is a little to much decor on her face...but I do love the Tribal Aesthetic at the same time.
I still personally hope them to look abit taller with a little bit more bulk.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Saw this one shared around:

https://i.imgur.com/R12Qze5.png

I cropped it. Full original on Twitter. It's apparently a hrothgar nier character. I think that's a pretty good look for lady hroth. :)

Credit: @Mr_jonnasse

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I saw the full version, prefer this cropped version cause they kinda scuffed the anatomy.
But yeah, face looks pretty possible.

There are 4 faces so I can practically guarantee at least one will be human looking to "please everyone". I'm guessing face 4 (Kimahri) since that's the most humanoid face males have.

Kainé hroth 10/10

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Originally Posted by Allegor

There are 4 faces so I can practically guarantee at least one will be human looking to "please everyone". I'm guessing face 4 (Kimahri) since that's the most humanoid face males have.

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I don't think they will get any human looking face
for male viera they took inspiration from Fan art for Hrothgals I'm sure they will do the same

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

The art is nice, I dig that style.
But no to that face for FemHroth

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It's the chin that is making me go "eeeh." Like she has the snout (sorta), but then the face keeps going and then suddenly human chin. Remove that and the face is actually alright.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

I don't think they will get any human looking face

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You Promise?
https://i.giphy.com/media/tN1lvnT4M6nte/giphy.webp

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Originally Posted by Nestama

It's the chin that is making me go "eeeh." Like she has the snout (sorta), but then the face keeps going and then suddenly human chin. Remove that and the face is actually alright.

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Im just a Purest and demand full on Animal. Either go one way, or the other way.
The middleground to me is lazy reeks fear of Commitment.
Its really a good looking art, just please no smooshed in human face. Please!

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Originally Posted by Duskane

I don't think they will get any human looking face
for male viera they took inspiration from Fan art for Hrothgals I'm sure they will do the same

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And two recurring images that pop around every single time the topic is mentioned are that genderbent Kimahri and that Bless waifu, who we already said many times look "too human" so one really can't say for certain there won't be a Cats face in there. That mural in Bozja, as unreliable as it may be, points in that exact direction too.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

And two recurring images that pop around every single time the topic is mentioned are that genderbent Kimahri and that Bless waifu, who we already said many times look "too human" so one really can't say for certain there won't be a Cats face in there. That mural in Bozja, as unreliable as it may be, points in that exact direction too.

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Yes but what is the general traffic and audience retention from the original sources? Searching off keywords to find something to delve into a conversation, and liking something to the point of playing a video game for what algorithmic ranks made them stumble across are not mutually exclusive. However, both happening at once is incredibly rare and unreliable to generate a clear vision of demand. There are techniques to manipulate the ranking system in web browser searches. OUR ACTIONS ON THESE FORUMS ARE INFLUENCING IT! Yes the aforementioned pictures are on top rank but how frequent are people actually typing for Female Hrothgar? Not much until probably recently. Some may just copy and paste these to pass along as opinion pieces for exactly what this forum has been doing. But a simple visit to the original sites paints a clearer picture. That genderbent Khimari and fem ronso art are not even close to 2k likes and have dead conversations in their respective sites. Meanwhile, newer arts just after fanfest are accelerating in likes, shares and traction faster than what over a year of those old fanarts gained in the wild. They are varied for sure but if the Devs are still busy (probably not even started), then these new arts are going to add some new introspection and inspiration for the dev team's design for the females anyway.

Also: (its not showing up while typing on tablet so click here)

A stylistic choice of a flater face from official illustration didn't make it for Male Hrothgar, seeing the mural and this side by side and the exagerrated hip proportion(of mural) seems like they just dumped and a previous WIP that was intended for a face/body type for the lost face 4 and could still be in the works.

Never noticed that before and looking at it i don't really see any fur on the shoulders either, wonder if they wanted to add some options that would give you the ability to make an almost "human" hrothgar, that actually woulda been worth the hats lmao

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Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

A stylistic choice of a flater face from official illustration didn't make it for Male Hrothgar, seeing the mural and this side by side and the exagerrated hip proportion(of mural) seems like they just dumped and a previous WIP that was intended for a face/body type for the lost face 4 and could still be in the works.

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Don't mean to pop your bubble about "likes" but nether this thread nor the Viera male one pasted 2k likes, yet they clearly took notice of it (and with everything we have to go on I very much doubt they haven't started work on Hrothgals yet). Since 2019 that gender swapped art and Bless cats have been the main things people point at.

As for this bit, they had already settled on the 4 faces before the artist made the reveal picture for fan fest. That's not a concept that didn't make it through, it was art made after they nailed down the design. The only thing he says about it is that everything with making Hrothgar was so hard that "by the time I got to this my mind was ... just blank" which I take is his way of recognizing that none of those heads look like that in game and that it's missing things.

Not sure what "exaggerated hips" is referring to but the latest mural art just looks exactly like the custom Femroe Queen body.

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Originally Posted by Frooty

Never noticed that before and looking at it i don't really see any fur on the shoulders either

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I actually wonder when they decided to give them fur.
They don't have it in this concept art which has the patterns, and thats the only concept art they've shown for the body.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

I actually wonder when they decided to give them fur.
They don't have it in this concept art which has the patterns, and thats the only concept art they've shown for the body.

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Probably the same reason they gave Au Ra scales. Also I really like the fur (they're the furry race, obvs), especially as it makes them the only race in this game that can have chest hair >:I

Aside from that one Bless waifu posted earlier, I unironically think adult Nala from the original Lion King would be a pretty good standard for our hrothgals. She already has plenty of great expressions to reference/draw inspiration from for emotes while her decidedly animal-shaped head retains a degree of (what we consider conventional) femininity that doesn't veer too far into the humanoid territory in terms of facial structure.

https://i.imgur.com/FjbfCSE.jpg

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Don't mean to pop your bubble about "likes" but nether this thread nor the Viera male one pasted 2k likes, yet they clearly took notice of it.

As for this bit, they had already settled on the 4 faces before the artist made the reveal picture for fan fest. That's not a concept that didn't make it through, it was art made after they nailed down the design.

I actually wonder when they decided to give them fur.
They don't have it in this concept art which has the patterns, and thats the only concept art they've shown for the body.

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You didn't pop anything. Let me walk you through it, these threads were made to bring attention to the want for MV and FH in general. The viewers, likes and constant posts from hopefully active players are a testament to that. The pictures posted in these threads to expand discussions all have their own sources on art threads or social media with their own kind of popularity to them be it shares, likes, etc. The most "popular" ones to share are from twitter and forum (from a crop of a PR image for Bless). Yet likes and attention for them are either low or too vague to judge if people actually like or want to play them.

https://i.imgur.com/G1EgqQy.jpg

In less than a week an art like this achieved faster than 1.2k likes of female ronso or genderbent Khimari. You can say its unfair given its an artist with a larger than average base but as a marketer that means a bigger pool to see how many who follow them who actually like the art and any who might be new that could be interested in playing the game for such a concept or just like seeing them around in the world. And this isn't even in relation to arts outside of those or before fanfest.

https://i.imgur.com/8Lf4i8K.jpg

And this one doubled the previous picture. I'd see it as people either liking them or new or current players wanting the choice like with Hyur to have a bigger or smaller build with unique faces to accompany them like with the clan system for said Hyur.

https://i.imgur.com/4EWQvj0.jpg

Just some props to Nessie's cute art. Gotta support the smaller artists, ya know.

They settled but the artist created the most stylistically different interpretation of face 4 that looks more like what a male Ronso would look like if following the females face structure. You'd think it was a concept design rather than something accurate to form like with the other drawn illustrations of the races. The face and Mural 2 of female hrothgar look very cohesive in comparison. The fact it was done after adds more weight to how much of a chaotic rush it was for them to not even focus on an identity for them that was already put into the game. The devs/Yoshida wanted to add more protruding fur with physics to such which crashed their test clients and the game after adding 3 Hrothgar into it. So make back art to account for them not going forward with it or the Occam's razor being its easier to draw the anatomy and muscle definition to then interpret into mesh.

And by just looking at mural 1 to 2 seeing an artistic and anatomical difference to faces and body proportions while still exaggerated(the artform in general is an exaggerated technique) then there is and has been time to evolve the concept and design with retooling.

https://i.imgur.com/8Lf4i8K.jpg

Yes, give it to me, I need it.
Stop Teasing me!

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

https://i.imgur.com/8Lf4i8K.jpg

Yes, give it to me, I need it.
Stop Teasing me!

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Yeah, the third one, on the right, is a pretty good example for femhroth. :)

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yeah, the third one, on the right, is a pretty good example for femhroth. :)

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Its cute, but not as cute as the middle and left one

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Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

snap.

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I have no clue how to begin to unpack your post there. You're comparing an archived Reddit thread's upvotes (back when most thought Hrothgals were "Prob not gonna happen") featuring art that's originally taken from a Pixiv account posted on the internet 8 years ago toooooo direct twitter likes for new fan-art made post confirmation from someone with almost 7k followers. That Gender swapped Ronso art is so reposted and unsourced that people literally think it's official concept art for Ronso females and treat it as such.

That doesn't make any sense to me ... but go off if you want, I don't care for lessening anyone's enjoyment of fan art.

As for why they would even consider looking at fan art for Viera males it's important to understand the differences here.
- That thread is massive. Over 7 times larger than this one and many times larger than the reg Viera threads before ShB. Most of the discussion there are circular fights about their looks using fan art. Their passionate fights over their appearance was so active and big that 2 years ago YP had to tell people to stop suggesting child looking models (that was the death blow to the very loud Child Male Viera Faction). The huge amount of fan art and discussion circulating on other social media platforms even prompted the creator of Viera to chime in about what fan art he liked for the male's looks. That is likely why they took "some inspiration from fan art"

- Female Hrothgar have less than a fraction of the amount of fan art as Male Viera in any social media space, this thread is very slow in comparison and most of the pics here isn't even art of "Female Hrothgar". This would imply that people in the fan base aren't nearly as impassionate about their appearance as Male Viera fans, which would make sense given that Hrothgar are an attempt to appeal to people outside the current player base.

And to suggest that new art would affect anything you would have to assume that they haven't started working on them yet at all, and given what we have to show (in game art and the custom Femroe Queen body that matches the in game art) I would have to disagree personally.

Anyway, as for the first art, that's an abstract teaser for the Queen fight. She doesn't have huge hips, she's actually sitting down ... and she doesn't even seem to have arms. It's supposed to look kinda like it so that once you see the Queen in her go-go gadget throne you go "oooooh!".

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

...*sigh*

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The abstract origin is of course why nobody would be taking that down to reference sheet in deciding what the community wants and would rather see more varied yet contemplable 'data'. The second closest to the genderbent Khimari is an female hrothgar art done by CookieHana which is...just past 1.3k likes. Someone with 20k followers. If such a small sliver of their direct fans/active or new players liked it then that is either sad or it is content that her general followers do not prefer following. Reducing the base of those likes to potentially be new players...is grim.

So we agree people looking for a well varied design to see and play with from the rest of the females races are not "impassionate"?

To say they have not started AT ALL isn't realistic when even you should already know the devs had something in mind for the race but then locked Hrothgar to one gender. So held off on it with artistic ideas in unexplorable cutscenes, tinkering a custom body on a race for what is considered by the community the most unappealing/conventionally unattractive gender of a unappealing race and taking the place of what is intended to be a female of a "bestial" race is more like it. Retcons are a thing and SE has made surprises in going with or against the grain before. You could imply progress has continued and has room to tinker some more. Being stressed from a pandemic and now having to make heads that would work with a unique mesh 'fur' asset for females and then readjust the body to fit with said mesh. The creator of Viera also had an idea for Males beforehand as well so how much fanart affected that is anybody's guess but the team still stated they used some anyway.

As with the first art...exhibit...head. You agree the seated body is very exaggerated and vague, yet they chose a face style that is different from the ones in mural 2. Do Hrothgar queens get a more animal head when queen? Did the first queen have a more animal looking head and it got bred out of the gene pool? Id say unique faces to chose from, flat to more animal. We do not care if it is a teaser for a fight. We are seeing it as a teaser towards aspects of a Female Hrothgar. Congrats on describing your player story experience when fighting her unicycle, come join savage and lets boop lioness snoot.

I'm really hoping that the fem hrothgar get a orange fur option!

I hope they're cool looking. But... I think they will be "cutesied" up in some way shape and form. I mean we already have female miqo which in any MMO is the female beastrace to the super monstrous male counterpart if that makes sense? I do hope they are as macho as the male Hrothgar though, and what I mean is= have them at least look as if they belong to the same race unlike au'ra. Make them tall and bulky- not as bulky but they definitely do NOT need human female breasts.

If you think they wont have breasts your delusional, simply for the sake of gear fitting they're gonna have them

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Originally Posted by juicybug

I hope they're cool looking. But... I think they will be "cutesied" up in some way shape and form. I mean we already have female miqo which in any MMO is the female beastrace to the super monstrous male counterpart if that makes sense? I do hope they are as macho as the male Hrothgar though, and what I mean is= have them at least look as if they belong to the same race unlike au'ra. Make them tall and bulky- not as bulky but they definitely do NOT need human female breasts.

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The sexual Dimorphism of Au'ra is really over the top. Plus there's so many femme female options.

Someone was saying that a more masculine female wouldn't be as popular. Even if that's the case, there's already so many cute female options in the game, don't you think you have enough choice already? What about women who want to be more heroic and physically powerful? You're basically stuck to femroes, and they're literally just tall.

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Originally Posted by DyslexicKitten

there's so many femme female options.

Someone was saying that a more masculine female wouldn't be as popular. Even if that's the case, there's already so many cute female options in the game, don't you think you have enough choice already? What about women who want to be more heroic and physically powerful? You're basically stuck to femroes, and they're literally just tall.

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https://i.imgflip.com/18tn69.jpg

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Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

Snap

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My dude, I'm not at all interested in your attempt to use numbers for some imaginary fight. I'm happy for you if you enjoy the influx of some selection of new Hrothgar Fan Art.

Personally I don't think it affects anything as getting any inspiration from fan art for Male Viera seems ... like a logical result of how powerful that movement was with the fact that even the man behind Viera partook in commenting on them. Game has added a number of genders and races without doing that, so it speaks volumes to the force behind Viera Males.

The act of making a new race takes a ton of effort and given what the game has given us I'm 100% sure they have been working on them already and that what we're seeing in Bozja is the signs of that.

Not even trying to convince you, just commented to your post to tell you the situation behind the Hrothgar Reveal art as they touched on it in the 1 decently deep exploration of their design process for em.

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Originally Posted by juicybug

I hope they're cool looking. But... I think they will be "cutesied" up in some way shape and form. I mean we already have female miqo which in any MMO is the female beastrace to the super monstrous male counterpart if that makes sense? I do hope they are as macho as the male Hrothgar though, and what I mean is= have them at least look as if they belong to the same race unlike au'ra. Make them tall and bulky- not as bulky but they definitely do NOT need human female breasts.

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There is nothing wrong with sexual dimorphism. Girl and guy Au Ra are different heights, but they share enough core features that they don't look anymore out of place than an NBA player and their SO.

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As for the stuff above, this is a failing of the CC in this game. Outside of breast size and height, there's nothing you can do to change your body shape and as such people pin all their hopes on a race being added that matches their preferred shape (*See Male Viera). So I get it, this is the last one and some people want their idea of a body shape. But this is also the only opportunity for people who like beast/ furry races to get a female option and anything close to making them look like men or as/ more masculine than Femroe (who are so rare because so few are into playing such masculine looking women) would be a terrible disservice. It would be servicing a fraction of a fraction which seems bonkers to me and would force anyone who wants to play a beast female into having their only option look like a man.

That's why I don't see them going that direction at all personally ... the point of this race is to draw in Western MMO fans who like playing Beast races like Khajiit, Tabaxi and WoW beast races and such.