Difficult experience in Forked Tower – a reminder to respect public content

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Originally Posted by All_Nonsense

Why are they designing field op content where 1 person can wipe a party of 48? Sounds like bad design to me. Never had an issue with DRS because surprise - you queued into it and there was a normal version of the raid for the "MSQ Andy" who didn't know what they were getting into.

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Literally every side agrees with this notion, which is why it's baffling this thread has continued as long as it has.

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Originally Posted by Akivar

What is the difference between checking a box in a menu and standing on a platform. They want to try the content, it is open to them, they get placed in the content if the system decides. It works the exact same. You do not get to pick the players you enter the instance with. Get over it.

It is not YOUR content, it is everyone's. As long as they are not intentionally griefing, they have every right to be there. They paid for its creation too. If you want to segregate off for your savage raids in little static parties the system allows you to. It does not allow you to for this content and you have no right to tell anyone else they can't try it. You are the one thinking you are entitles to the content without regards of what anyone else wants.

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The content isn't being gatekept by any scary Discord group, the player was asked if they would let the group that had been formed and prepared ahead of time go in.

The person(s) who ended up in the raid instead of the premade group members caused their own deaths.

They are not entitled to being raised if they died, considering they were given the option to communicate and refused to make use of it.

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Originally Posted by Luluya

The content isn't being gatekept by any scary Discord group, the player was asked if they would let the group that had been formed and prepared ahead of time go in.

The person(s) who ended up in the raid instead of the premade group members caused their own deaths.

They are not entitled to being raised if they died, considering they were given the option to communicate and refused to make use of it.

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Additionally, because they don't know the content well enough to tell that they were standing in the cleave, raising them would have been a threat to the run because of how disastrous one person's lack of knowledge/experience can be. The entry method sucks in a vacuum, SE said the BA method sucked back when Hydatos came out and still managed to make it worse, and it's completely at odds with how hard the raid is, but everyone insists that they need to get the last word and now the thread's close to 50 pages long.

So do you think you can do something like that in an Alliance Raid? A normal dungeon? This is public content, its not static content. Get over it. They do not have any special right to it over that other player. They do not own it, it is not theirs. You have not defeat this one solid argument. They can ask all they want, it is a request. No obligation to give it to them. So what that other player has to wait because YOU want the content NOW. Nah. It never worked like that.

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Originally Posted by Akivar

So do you think you can do something like that in an Alliance Raid? A normal dungeon? This is public content, its not static content. Get over it. They do not have any special right to it over that other player. They do not own it, it is not theirs. You have not defeat this one solid argument. They can ask all they want, it is a request. No obligation to give it to them. So what that other player has to wait because YOU want the content NOW. Nah. It never worked like that.

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He remains undefeated, chat.

Because the design of the content supports mer. And so does ToS. It does not belong to discord, it does not belong to you, it doesn't belong to me. It is an OPEN entry system. Square designed it that way. Everyone that pays the monthly subscription and gets to that point of content may enter. You telling them they need to sit back and wait THEIR turn is gross. It is their turn when the system decides to put them into the content. It is not under your control. You just wanted to tell everyone else how and when they get to experience the content. You aren't a king.

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Originally Posted by Akivar

Because the design of the content supports mer. And so does ToS. It does not belong to discord, it does not belong to you, it doesn't belong to me. It is an OPEN entry system. Square designed it that way. Everyone that pays the monthly subscription and gets to that point of content may enter. You telling them they need to sit back and wait THEIR turn is gross. It is their turn when the system decides to put them into the content. It is not under your control. You just wanted to tell everyone else how and when they get to experience the content. You aren't a king.

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Homie's spittin here. I respect it

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Originally Posted by Akivar

Are you saying a third party program should be required to complete this game? If so, what's the difference between that and mods? You are using outside tools to better coordinate.

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Xbox and Playstation already use voice chat for other games (I used it in destiny through psn literally 10+ years ago) and also have discord so you can't compare it to mods.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

These discords are no stranger to randoms due to BA, and some of them do welcome them in, despite that they may be taking a spot from someone who planned their role in the raid. It's less likely they are taking someone's spot when it's old because they won't always have 48 players signed up, but FT is new, so.
This is true as well but I think it stems from anxiety. Anxiety leads to not engaging with the raids or discords and that is sometimes expressed as "us versus them". When if they actually joined the raids and discords they'd find plenty of nice and chill people.

How I know this is because I struggle with anxiety myself in this area but have still managed some of the raids.

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I've had some randoms join my group, they didn't join voice chat when invited but they also were farther than us and just wanted to do it. We did not have 48 players either so everyone was able to go in. (the queuing or lack thereof of this content is really ridiculous imo)

Also you don't even have to talk on voice chat, I've never once said a single thing in voice chat in my entire time playing ff14.

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Originally Posted by RuriStone

What if they wanted to try it blind? you don't HAVE to play the game reading guides, watching vids etc that's not a requirement. If you aren't even aware of what the content involves because you are new to it how is this fair? Like I said to Nec earlier courtesy is given to you guys when you're new but you can't repay the favour to other newbies? how is that fair, courteous or sociable? It's not.

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I actually do a lot of stuff blind on release BUT we specifically create groups to do content blind. It is annoying when people come in and start placing markers and stuff, we leave and blacklist them which is kind of hard to do in OC though.

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Originally Posted by Akivar

Because the design of the content supports mer. And so does ToS. It does not belong to discord, it does not belong to you, it doesn't belong to me. It is an OPEN entry system. Square designed it that way. Everyone that pays the monthly subscription and gets to that point of content may enter. You telling them they need to sit back and wait THEIR turn is gross. It is their turn when the system decides to put them into the content. It is not under your control. You just wanted to tell everyone else how and when they get to experience the content. You aren't a king.

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doing stuff simply because you are able to do stuff isnt a good choice... use your common sense. Sure, people that dont know better will try it once, but once you notice that its impossible to clear without a discord, you might consider joining one, unless you really want to become a burden to everyone elses life. You dont even need to talk there, just hang out there muted, silently and do whatever the nice voice tells you to do and success

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Originally Posted by Aviatorhead

I am mostly wondering as I've seen your idea expressed by others. But why would the developers design the entry system this way (where more ciphers gives you a greater chance at a spot) if 'sniping' wasn't intended? What else would this system be for? Like they are not that dumb, it would have been easier, probably, to not have to develope the cipher system and just do a normal way to queue it.

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Precisely. The cipher system is explicit proof that this content was not designed to be attempted by 48-person premades. It is reinforced by the difficulty of getting 48 people in the same instance. (cf. Cosmic Explo where you can choose which instance to enter.)

Admittedly, this does leave us with the glaring question of what the hell SE was thinking making the content so difficult. But they seem to do that "by mistake" on a regular basis.

The only rationale player response to this fiasco, which apparently JP is adopting, is to boycott this latest SE screw up in order to apply maximum pressure to encourage SE to fix it.

On a lighter note, I just noticed Avo (I blocked them months ago, but it was quoted) identifies the problem with all of FFXIV as the "Plebs." I am happy to be a member of the uncouth, powerless masses.

Taking this analogy of imperial Rome further, might I ask the Patricians (Discord) to hand Yoshi-P a toga and a violin. The only reasonable conclusion to this pitiful story is to watch FT burn.