Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

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Originally Posted by AsukaHamano

It doesn't cause issues within my static and most other groups i know also play like this. If it doesn't cause issues then whats the big deal with healers not doing DPS? Honestly i fully agree with YoshiP. The role is called Healer, you should be Healing as your main focus. If you WANT to DPS then go for it but its in no way a REQUIREMENT to clear content.

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Dpsing healer are focused on healing, they just know how to do both.
And Yoshida said indeed stick to healing, fulfill your primary job, but if you have the time to, you can dps. The Hall of the Novice teaches you exactly the same thing. Everything alright and you have time ? Don't stand doing nothing and do some damages.

Don't hide behind that "Yoshida said" to argue with your opinion.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

There's a difference in efficiency, first of all physick is extremely weak on smn/blm, and secondly the smn/blm losing 1 dps gcd to cast physick would be a lot more than the healer's loss if they stop dpsing for 1 gcd to cast a heal. To match an actual heal you probably would have to use
physick 10 times, so it's a stupid tradeoff. A better comparison will be pld casting clemency during a big dungeon pull where the healer is spamming aoe dps spell. Pld has no aoe dps skill other than circle of scorn, so the pld casting a clemency (which is powerful, unlike physick) loses 1 single target dps gcd, while the healer might lose a lot more potency by stopping their holy/gravity spam to cast a cure/benefic.

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Well guess what?

To me the WHM DPS is pretty weak... I already posted the link earlier regarding their DPS in comparison to the SMN, its quite literally half the damage.

So.... You would quite literally be asking me as a SMN to use my Physick simply because its on my roster or I'm a "Bad Summoner" under those guidelines...

Which is silly and stupid... Healing isn't my job as a SMN... that's the Healers job... my job is DPS... yeah I have a heal skill and a resurrect skill... but those only get used if the WHM or Healer is down....

Its not my job... its theirs... and telling me to get out and heal... because I CAN... or I'm a "Bad Summoner" is ludicrous and asinine.

Yeah I can if I want... but that is my option...

If you want to jump on healers for not healing properly... I'm with you...

But when you're telling them if they don't Pull the weight of the DPS classes alongside their healing abilities... or they suck... well no...

I'm not with you there...

If you have a problem with DPS... then maybe you should be casting a glance at your DDs instead.

Healers DPSing... well that's their option... and only your personal crap... not because its their actual job.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

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If you refuse to use your Raise and Physick in a raid saving manner because it's not your job, you're a bad SMN. Sure, Physick usually won't help or save a run, that's where efficiency evaluation comes in. Raise, however, very often will. Refusing to use it is simply irrational.

Also, stop abusing ellipses! What did those poor dots ever do to you?!

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

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Yeah right half of an actual dps is weak, two healers would add up to one extra dps, which is probably ~15% of the total group dps. Idk but if you think that's weak then let's just disagree here. Keep in mind that those healers doing that kind of damage don't let their group mates die, they just get away with less healing than majority of healers because they know how to maximize the usage of their tools. For comparison your physick is far from half of an actual healer's heal, so there's that. Better examples would be things like raise, virus, apoc, mantra, shadewalker, smokescreen.

And again, I have no idea why people are so fixated on what is or isn't someone's "job", I always see it as: if you can do it and it helps the group then why not at least try? I don't agree with people verbally abusing or kicking healers who don't dps, since they might be new to the job or are still learning the timings of the fight, but I don't understand the people who outright refuse to try to contribute dps simply because it's not needed, not their job, not intended by the devs etc etc. If you refuse to contribute more for the group simply because you don't want to, despite the ability to do so, that sounds quite selfish to me.

In group contents sometimes you can do more than what's the bare minimum required of your role for the benefit of everyone. For example tanks/healers can do some mechanics intended for dps, to let them maintain their buffs easier and do more dmg on the boss (see a7s jails and a8s steam regulators), or maybe in a9s first wave of adds it's better for two healers to pick the generators instead of a healer and the OT, since tanks generally do more dps in their opener.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Well guess what?

To me the WHM DPS is pretty weak... I already posted the link earlier regarding their DPS in comparison to the SMN, its quite literally half the damage.

So.... You would quite literally be asking me as a SMN to use my Physick simply because its on my roster

If you have a problem with DPS... then maybe you should be casting a glance at your DDs instead.

Healers DPSing... well that's their option... and only your personal crap... not because its their actual job.

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It's half of their abilities and it speeds up a run. Stop being stupid. Your argument is cancer.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Dpsing healer are focused on healing, they just know how to do both.
And Yoshida said indeed stick to healing, fulfill your primary job, but if you have the time to, you can dps. The Hall of the Novice teaches you exactly the same thing. Everything alright and you have time ? Don't stand doing nothing and do some damages.

Don't hide behind that "Yoshida said" to argue with your opinion.

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"Honestly i fully agree with YoshiP. The role is called Healer, you should be Healing as your main focus. If you WANT to DPS then go for it "

Bro do you even read?

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

To me the WHM DPS is pretty weak... I already posted the link earlier regarding their DPS in comparison to the SMN, its quite literally half the damage.
-snip-
If you have a problem with DPS... then maybe you should be casting a glance at your DDs instead.

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On single target WHM is worse off than SMN but on your average expert group pull, WHM dps is insanely high and has the added bonus of stunning everything for almost 10 seconds, making the tank take no damage and removing any reasons for healing.

But that's beside the point.

Everything in this game revolves around group dps. Every fight is balanced with a timer and you need a certain amount of combined dps to clear the fight before the timer runs out. Regardless of what anyone says on the forums, what Yoshi says, what the fluff text in quests says, that's a hardcoded mechanic which defines what the group must do if they want to clear the fight. Not enough combined dps and you fail. You can keep everyone at 100% at all times and tanks can mitigate as much as they want to and you can clear all mechanics perfectly, but if dps check fails, you fail. Argue as much as you want but that's how the game is designed and that's how it functions.

With that in mind, almost always half of the party is dps jobs and other half tanks and healers. If played somewhat optimally, as a rough estimate a tank and a healer combined can do about the same amount of dps as a dps job, to be fair sometimes a little less but it's around there depending on the fight. So roughly two thirds of the group dps comes from the dps jobs and one third from healers and tanks. The assumption here is that dps players aren't slacking of and doing /mdance for 70% of the fight, instead they should be constantly pushing buttons and doing their rotation.

You putting the blame on the dps is just showing how little of the math involved you've grasped. One third of the group dps is completely out of dps jobs' control. So every single point of dps you're just simply choosing not to do, you're tossing it all on the tanks and dps to cover. If both healers share this attitude, that forces the dps jobs to pull somewhere between 1000-1500 dps more, that can add up to over 200 dps per player! In A12S the average dps is around 2000 and healers do typically combined dps of around 1000. In total the group should do around 12000 to clear it safely before enrage. So you're actually saying that just because you don't feel like dpsing but instead would rather sit around looking at the boss animations, every single other person in the party should improve their performance by around 10%. Just because you feel like it's not your job. Now what if the tanks decide that too. They'll just keep tank stance up and do the bare minimum of dps (tanks do around 1200-1500 each normally) and cut their dps because of this? That's another 1000 dps lost if they decide to do the exact same thing and just decide it's the dps's job to push the numbers, not theirs. Should this be covered by the dps too? I can promise you that increasing your dps on an already difficult fight by 10 % is not easy and increasing it by 20 % is even harder. If I could do that, I would've already done it. But healer who just chooses not to dps, is doing it just out of laziness.

So no. Healer dps is not insignificant. Yes, you might be able to clear the fight even if you're slacking. You're free to not be a team player if that's important to you, just be aware that someone else is picking up your slack.

This thread is so toxic it's horrible

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

It's half of their abilities and it speeds up a run. Stop being stupid. Your argument is cancer.

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Cool... I'll wear that as a badge of honor if it came from you...

And where exactly is it "Half their abilities"...
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Conjurer
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/White_Mage

I'm only seeing a couple of DD abilities... 3/4ths or more of their abilities are Healing abilities.

Heck even Scholar is almost all healing...
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Scholar

I just happen to know at least SCH does get some DD abilities (especially DoTs) from the Arcanist side since its the same Base class.

I fail to see your point.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

And where exactly is it "Half their abilities"...
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Conjurer
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/White_Mage

I'm only seeing a couple of DD abilities... 3/4ths or more of their abilities are Healing abilities.

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Let's see:


Pure dps:
Cleric Stance
Holy
Stone
Stone II
Stone III
Aero
Aero II
Aero III
Fluid Aura (lol)

Total: 9

Combined dps/healing/crowd control/MP:
Shroud of Saints
Presence of Mind
Assize
Repose

Total: 4

Pure healing/buff:
Divine Seal
Benediction
Stoneskin
Stoneskin II
Cure
Cure II
Cure III
Medica
Medica II
Asylum
Regen
Tetra
Raise
Esuna
Protect

Total: 15

I hope I didn't forget anything, cross-classes not included here.

So that's 9 dps ablities, 4 combined and 15 healing only abilities. So that's 13 vs 15, granted some of the dps abilites you won't be using in practice, like fluid aura but it doesn't mean they're not dps abilities. So yes, it's much closer to half than the 1/4 you suggested.