Would you like an in-game parser?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

You felt it relevant enough a point to post, I felt it relevant enough to comment on. Nice backpedal though, very middle school tier.

---

What do you want me to say? Trying to be mean won't make me argue with you more you know. It wasn't what i tried to point out that's all.
I talked about learning a fight, nothing more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taika

In older FF games beating a fight wasn't about your DPS, so a DPS parser wouldn't have helped you. They were also single player games, so you weren't accountable to anyone else but yourself, and no one else was able to prevent you from winning. FFXI did have enrage timers, and parsers were used in that one.

---

Again :/ not the point, i talked about training to clear and learn a fight. Because from what i read on other post it's like you can't do that without a parser.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

What do you want me to say? Trying to be mean won't make me argue with you more you know. It wasn't what i tried to point out that's all.
I talked about learning a fight, nothing more.

---

You brought up a stale, archaic point about how learning a fight in an older game in the franchise didn't need a parser. It didn't need a tank or a healthbar either. I only "tried to be mean" when instead of defending your point you dodged it entirely and pretended your post had nothing to do with that point you brought up.

Taika makes good points about it being singleplayer so the only time being spent was your own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

You brought up a stale, archaic point about how learning a fight in an older game in the franchise didn't need a parser. It didn't need a tank or a healthbar either. I only "tried to be mean" when instead of defending your point you dodged it entirely and pretended your post had nothing to do with that point you brought up.

Taika makes good points about it being singleplayer so the only time being spent was your own.

---

Yes, and I was answering someone talking about those older games, meaning i was wrong to even answer?

In any "hard" fight, you need to train, singleplayer or not. The rest sure is different, but this part stay true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

Yes, and I was answering someone talking about those older games, meaning i was wrong to even answer?

In any "hard" fight, you need to train, singleplayer or not. The rest sure is different, but this part stay true.

---

They brought up purchaser intent. You brought up gameplay design. I can see the idea behind your response now, but you didn't properly address their point then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

Again :/ not the point, i talked about training to clear and learn a fight. Because from what i read on other post it's like you can't do that without a parser.

---

That's exactly what I was talking about! In older games (apart from XI), there was no battle challenge (such as enrage) that parser would have helped you to train to beat. In XI there was and parsers were used for that. In XIV DPS is even more important, as is aligning group buffs and performing certain amount of actions within certain time as well as keeping up high enough activity %. These are things a parser can help you to measure and thus enhance your performance, which weren't present in the older games (and as such, parser wouldn't have helped in learning to perform better in those fights).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taika

snip

---

The thing is, only speaking from my experience here though. Parser didn't helped. Because the people i were with, and it was with a bunch of parties (obviously not all of them) were aiming for a high dps, more than enough to clear, that is true. But they couldn't do mechanics and wiped, so couldn't clear because of this.

The only thing that mattered to them weren't doing things right, then do better DPS. Nope, the opposite. Hit enrage and adjust is better imo. I know parser can be usefull. The problem is, it is in most case not used right. Hence why i don't want one, but that is another story.
Some where even arguing about some dps not done enough by one where there were still more than enough. But the very same person didn't do mechanics (just an exemple)
You must have seen those old Zurvan party and today Shinryu, the problem isn't the DPS in most case. I wouldn't be against parser if people were less, people i suppose?

Just because people can misuse a tool doesn't mean the public should be denied that tool. With that logic, the public should be denied the internet because not everyone uses it correctly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

Parser didn't helped. Because the people i were with, and it was with a bunch of parties (obviously not all of them) were aiming for a high dps, more than enough to clear, that is true. But they couldn't do mechanics and wiped, so couldn't clear because of this.

---

In most fights, you need both: handling mechanics correctly AND high enough DPS. Parser doesn't help with the first, but it sure does help with the latter. If you're only focused on one of those, you won't beat the fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taika

In most fights, you need both: handling mechanics correctly AND high enough DPS. Parser doesn't help with the first, but it sure does help with the latter. If you're only focused on one of those, you won't beat the fight.

---

That I know, now explain that to others...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Just because people can misuse a tool doesn't mean the public should be denied that tool. With that logic, the public should be denied the internet because not everyone uses it correctly.

---

Beside the internet (and that is not entirly true), a lot of things are indeed forbidden because of the use that can be done of them. That aside, if SE do add a parser, i want a way to report cancerous parser user like we can for RMT, sorry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

Beside the internet (and that is not intirly true), a lot of things are indeed forbidden because of the use that can be done of them. That aside, if SE do add a parser, i want a way to report cancerous parser user like we can for RMT, sorry.

---

Can I have a way to report cancerous anti parsers as well? Given recent history that might be more used. And no, it is entirely true that not everbody uses the internet correctly. Or at least, not in a healthy and supportive way.

Name me one tool humanity has evet conceived that cannot be misused.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Can I have a way to report cancerous anti parsers as well? Given recent history that might be more used. And no, it is entirely true that not everbody uses the internet correctly. Or at least, not in a healthy and supportive way.

Name me one tool humanity has evet conceived that cannot be misused.

---

Why asking? you know as much as i do there's none. And sure, both behavior are not correct, having a simple to report harsh behavior would be better and shouldn't be limited to parse related.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

Why asking? you know as much as i do there's none. And sure, both behavior are not correct, having a simple to report harsh behavior would be better and shouldn't be limited to parse related.

---

You do know harassment is already reportable right? Introducing a parser wouldn't change that to the point where parse harassment wouldn't need its own specification.

Hence my request, which was more highlighting the silliness of both requests.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

You do know harassment is already reportable right? Introducing a parser wouldn't change that to the point where parse harassment wouldn't need its own specification.

Hence my request, which was more highlighting the silliness of both requests.

---

It is, but it's also a pain to do so as the formular si long, the way you report RMT is fast and neat.
It's not that silly when you see how chat is in game now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

It is, but it's also a pain to do so as the formular si long, the way you report RMT is fast and neat.
It's not that silly when you see how chat is in game now.

---

The big difference here is you won't need to report a mob of players for parser harassment in the same way you would for rmt, and you need to provide details in the report for harassment.

Making parse harassment as easy as right click > report would just lead to gms either doing nothing about genuine reports, or taking the nuclear option in which case it's be way too easy to accuse someone of parse harassment just because you dislike them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

The big difference here is you won't need to report a mob of players for parser harassment in the same way you would for rmt, and you need to provide details in the report for harassment.

Making parse harassment as easy as right click > report would just lead to gms either doing nothing about genuine reports, or taking the nuclear option in which case it's be way too easy to accuse someone of parse harassment just because you dislike them.

---

You said it yourself by talking about misuse. It already happend with RMT report. so harrasment report this way wouldn't change much things. Just making it easier. When you try to farm you encounter a lot of cancerous player and it take too much time to report them for pple to actualy do that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

You said it yourself by talking about misuse. It already happend with RMT report. so harrasment report this way wouldn't change much things. Just making it easier. When you try to farm you encounter a lot of cancerous player and it take too much time to report them for pple to actualy do that.

---

Fair enough on that point I suppose.

My main problem with the parser, like i said before, is harrasment. If something is done about that point, i'm fine with parsing, It's not like i'll be forced to play with it.
I know that harrasment aren't parser only, but people are people and it's bond to happend. As simple and stupid as that...

Edit : you may not agree HyoMinPark, but it'll still be my opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

My main problem with the parser, like i said before, is harrasment. If something is done about that point, i'm fine with parsing, It's not like i'll be forced to play with it.
I know that harrasment aren't parser only, but people are people and it's bond to happend. As simple and stupid as that...

---

And harassment is bound to occur WITHOUT a parser. Like it already does. It's not like if parsers became "legal", the GMs would suddenly be okay with harassment.

Stop blaming the tool for the actions of PEOPLE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

My main problem with the parser, like i said before, is harrasment.

---

I agree that parsers can have problems and that's why I'd like it to be restricted to specific content and made optional. When it comes to the harassment issue, it is very subjective and that's why it would be difficult to judge whether harassment increases from the use of an official parser. People would disagree on what even counts as harassment, as they already do. Some think that any comments about dps are harassment, some think that kicking is harassment and some don't think even rude comments are harassment as long as they are based on facts. That last type of person would not agree that harassment has multiplied alongside with parser use because they think harassment was at zero to begin with.

So in order to measure harassment we would first have to agree on what parser harassment is. Here's a question to everyone: would the following (currently forbidden topics) count as harassment if we assume the group is capable of clearing the fight? And what if the group is not capable of clearing?

- You're doing lower dps than the OT, step it up. (Judging by comparing to another role)
- Lol the SAM is below the BRD. (Judging based on job, mocking)
- If the healer did more dps we would do better. (Adding dps responsibility to other roles than dps)
- All you gray percentiles are being carried. (Judging based on relative performance)
- Your weapon is better than mine yet I do more dps, please git gud. (Judging based on gear)
- Sorry, you're not doing enough damage so we're going to let you go. (Kicking)
- Don't take that player, he's done bad dps in previous runs. (Talking trash about someone to other players)
- You're doing shit dps, have you considered uninstalling? (Swearing, rude comments)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

My main problem with the parser, like i said before, is harrasment. If something is done about that point, i'm fine with parsing, It's not like i'll be forced to play with it.
I know that harrasment aren't parser only, but people are people and it's bond to happend. As simple and stupid as that...

---

Once a player enter the game, they will harrass people. Its the action of a player/person not the tool itself. Also I know I will sound a-hole here; but if a person gets kicked and they KNOW they are not doing well enough, whos fault is that? The player ofc who doesnt do enough like the rest is doing. And if you or anyone else is afraid of getting kicked if it does happen (a parser in game) why not improve? Or you going to blame it on something else?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinha

I agree that parser

---

All of those harrasements comes from non parser people too. And also seriously, if you going to bring up a healer have to dps, please stop already. If a WHM is asking a BLM for virus, why? They are dps not support, again, why does tank need to use shake it off? Its support, they are tanks not support. I could go all day. If people actually played well, then we might some decent dungeons like AK was with double bees back in the day. If a person is doing grey percentile without a death or just 1 death, something IS TERRIBLE wrong. If a person done a fight 20 times and his average is lets say 30-40% whos fault is that?
And honestly stop think its possible for everyone to do 2k dps in susano and healers do 0 dps and tanks doesn't try to hit good numbers and not hit enrage, that's how bad it is if the very low end players end up together and I've witness it so many times. It's time we couldnt even kill the sword in susano extreme and I did it with my static as ILVL 270!!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by akaneakki

All of those harrasements comes from non parser people too. And also seriously, if you going to bring up a healer have to dps, please stop already.

---

I do think healers should dps if they can, but some people may think it's wrong to put all of the fault on healers (who may be dealing dps already) if the group is lacking dps. I don't know what the consensus is so that's why I wrote that line.

Saying any of those things could get someone reported atm (for parser use, not necessarily harassment), so I'm thinking that if parser use was no longer a reportable offense then we would see such talk in game as long as it's not classed as harassment. But would it be? Personally I don't think the majority of those lines count as harassment, but some people might disagree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinha

Here's a question to everyone: would the following (currently forbidden topics) count as harassment if we assume the group is capable of clearing the fight? And what if the group is not capable of clearing?

---

For fun, I'll split them into categories based on my own opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doesn't Constitute Harassment

- You're doing lower dps than the OT, step it up. (Judging by comparing to another role)
- If the healer did more dps we would do better. (Adding dps responsibility to other roles than dps)
- Sorry, you're not doing enough damage so we're going to let you go. (Kicking)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rude, but Doesn't Constitute Harassment

- Lol the SAM is below the BRD. (Judging based on job, mocking)
- Your weapon is better than mine yet I do more dps, please git gud. (Judging based on gear)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Could Be Considered Harassment

- All you gray percentiles are being carried. (Judging based on relative performance)
- Don't take that player, he's done bad dps in previous runs. (Talking trash about someone to other players)
- You're doing shit dps, have you considered uninstalling? (Swearing, rude comments)

---

Even in the harassment category, I find only the italics example harassing whereas the other two could become that way if say, one player was trying to improve yet someone kept insisting they were terrible and never to take them all because they were bad at such and such a time. Basically, context matters to differentiate between a rude remark and plain harassment.

All of you arguing in this thread for so many pages is EXACTLY why there will never be a parser in game. The more you go on and complain that people not on your side are harassing you just proves the point that you can't play well together and could never be trusted not to use a parser to harass others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarabeth

All of you arguing in this thread for so many pages is EXACTLY why there will never be a parser in game. The more you go on and complain that people not on your side are harassing you just proves the point that you can't play well together and could never be trusted not to use a parser to harass others.

---

Exactly! So forums should be removed as a feature since all people do is harass people over them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Exactly! So forums should be removed as a feature since all people do is harass people over them.

---

Way to miss the entire point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarabeth

The more you go on and complain that people not on your side are harassing you just proves the point that you can't play well together and could never be trusted not to use a parser to harass others.

---

I presume you're referring to pro-parsers, which is a bit of a strawman, since I don't recall anyone saying they're being harassed for being pro-parser. More specifically, it was just people calling pro-parsers toxic, and then in the same post throwing out insults.

Also, because people can't agree on something it means that parsers shouldn't be supported, or because people who want parsers keep arguing and/or defending their point against people who don't, that suddenly they can't be trusted? Do you even realize how ridiculous this sounds? Yet I'm supposed to trust every doom-sayer who talks as if parsers will bring about the end times and how there will be constant harassment and everyone who uses one will be super toxic and mean to me?

Also, just saying. "The more you go on and complain that people not on your side and harassing you just proves the point that you can't play well together and could never be trusted to not whine about parsers." It goes both ways. Even if it was brought up in a calm, polite manner addressing the objective fact that someone is doing less than their class should be, or demands.

I'm going to do my best to ignore how entitled and self-centered it sounds to imply that players need to earn "trust," to use parsers. You can't even trust most players to do mechanics properly, doesn't mean they're not allowed to keep attempting the content and screwing it up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarabeth

Way to miss the entire point.

---

Oh?

If your point is "We won't have parsers because the devs think we can't handle it--after all, look at our use of the forums" it then follows that we shouldn't even be allowed the forums, because we can't be trusted with our use of the forums.

If it's not, then work on how you word your arguments in the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarabeth

All of you arguing in this thread for so many pages is EXACTLY why there will never be a parser in game. The more you go on and complain that people not on your side are harassing you just proves the point that you can't play well together and could never be trusted not to use a parser to harass others.

---

The only people I see complaining about harassment are the "anti-parser" posters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oscura

I presume you're referring to pro-parsers

---

And you would be wrong in that presumption. I'm referring to both sides. As to the rest of your post I said none of that. You are putting your own words in there, not what I said.

Also if I were not doing my job in game, I would want to be told (preferably nicely). I always welcome tips. I try to always do the best I can in whatever job I'm playing. I played FFXI for over 7 years where you'd get kicked from a party if you so much as showed up with less than +1 gear in every slot, let alone slack off. I spent years doing Dynamis, Sky, Sea, etc. And I've never needed a parser to tell me if I'm doing well. If you need one, get act or whatever program and go nuts with yourself.

Really I don't care if you all argue till the end of time on this parser thing. SE has made it abundantly clear that it will not happen. I was just pointing out that you are proving their point in not adding it. You are all so quick to jump about nothing. Well have fun for another 47 pages and see where that gets you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarabeth

You are putting your own words like trust in there, not what I said.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarabeth

could never be trusted not to use a parser to harass others.

---

You are referring to both sides but you specifically mention that the community "could never be trusted," to not use a parser to harass others. As if the disagreement has anything to do with it, or implying people who want to use parsers will likely do so in a negative fashion. It's just an incredible assumption.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarabeth

And you would be wrong in that presumption. I'm referring to both sides. As to the rest of your post I said none of that. You are putting your own words like trust in there, not what I said.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarabeth

All of you arguing in this thread for so many pages is EXACTLY why there will never be a parser in game. The more you go on and complain that people not on your side are harassing you just proves the point that you can't play well together and could never be trusted not to use a parser to harass others.

---

You mentioned trust, actually.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarabeth

Really I don't care if you all argue till the end of time on this parser thing. SE has made it abundantly clear that it will not happen. I was just pointing out that you are proving their point in not adding it. You are all so quick to jump about nothing. Well have fun for another 47 pages and see where that gets you.

---

I don't care whether or not parsers are officially supported as long as ACT is a grey area. I'm just tired of people posting ridiculous things. I'm not "jumping about nothing," it's just I'm sick of people making generalizations with no proof or even research, simply just garbage thrown out with no meaning except to force their argument down people's throats.

Also, SE has made it abundantly clear that it will not happen? So simply because SE said it won't happen, people should just give up and stop asking or talking about it? Well, time to give on Blue Mage. Time to give up on instanced housing. Let's not ignore the fact that SE has said they learned their lesson from 3.x MNK with SAM...and they didn't. Not to mention BLM. SE's word is not absolute. It never is. The same way that it was mentioned FC and personal housing would be separate, it can always change in the future.

Also, you say "have fun for another 47 pages," this thread was necro'd. Most of the posts in this thread are by players who have been banned from the forums or no longer post actively here. The only reason this thread has so many pages is because it has been over a very long period of time. As with every thread, I'll eventually get bored of responding and move on. It doesn't mean there won't be more participants, and you shouldn't shame people for wanting to participate in the discussion. Regardless of whatever side of the debate they're on.

I have to wonder when people will get off constantly shaming people for disagreeing or having discussions on a forum of all places. It's just super pretentious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarabeth

Also if I were not doing my job in game, I would want to be told (preferably nicely). I always welcome tips. I try to always do the best I can in whatever job I'm playing. I played FFXI for over 7 years where you'd get kicked from a party if you so much as showed up with less than +1 gear in every slot, let alone slack off. I spent years doing Dynamis, Sky, Sea, etc. And I've never needed a parser to tell me if I'm doing well. If you need one, get act or whatever program and go nuts with yourself.

---

Objectively speaking, how do you know if you are doing as well as you think you are doing without a tool that shows you hard numbers? Unless you are referring to other aspects of your job, like utility aspects. Serious question here, because I am curious.

Quote:

---

Really I don't care if you all argue till the end of time on this parser thing. SE has made it abundantly clear that it will not happen. I was just pointing out that you are proving their point in not adding it. You are all so quick to jump about nothing. Well have fun for another 47 pages and see where that gets you.

---

SE also said that tanks would never be able to block magic damage, that housing would remain FC only, and that said housing would never have a feature implemented like the auto-demolition timer. What SE says is not necessarily law; they’ve been known to say things one Live Letter, and then a few patches or even an expansion later, go back on what they said because of community demands.

All this being said, you aren’t really doing yourself any favors by continuing to pop back into this thread to bicker with us. If this is all so “pointless”, then why do you keep coming back to the thread? Or are you just looking to get in a “last word”, if you will?

Nice stealth edit about the “trust” thing, by the way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Nice stealth edit about the “trust” thing, by the way.

---

No stealth needed, you all just jumped right in while I was still editing to add what I wanted to say. Anyhow, carry on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oscura

It doesn't mean there won't be more participants, and you shouldn't shame people for wanting to participate in the discussion. Regardless of whatever side of the debate they're on.

I have to wonder when people will get off constantly shaming people for disagreeing or having discussions on a forum of all places. It's just super pretentious.

---

Yeah...you echo my sentiments about that completely so there is much agreeness to be had.

I too always wonder why people do that. It's like going to a meet and greet party and a few of the guests met up and are crowded around in a corner having a fun civil discussion about some topic you happen to not like so you waltz over butt in and tell them to stop wasting their time talking about that silly subject. Sounds ridiculous right, yet I see people do pretty much that on this forum constantly.

I mean sure no one is probably going to be able to stop you from voicing whatever opinions you want to voice, but don't be surprised if you get called out for rudeness if you go out of your way to say things that are entirely unnecessary and possibly quite rude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarabeth

No stealth needed, you all just jumped right in while I was still editing to add what I wanted to say. Anyhow, carry on.

---

You seem to have a tendency of dropping back behind "That's not what I said" and "You just didn't get the point." If this happens often, maybe it's on you for not clarifying your meaning. Maybe it would be better to have your thoughts in their entirety written down before posting partials; if you did that, then you wouldn't have people "jumping right in while you're still editing". Especially when you edit to change fundamental points presented in the post, such as "I didn't use the word trust".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarabeth

No stealth needed, you all just jumped right in while I was still editing to add what I wanted to say. Anyhow, carry on.

---

You added more to your post but took out the line about trust after you were called out on it.

I’m still waiting for an answer to my question, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarabeth

All of you arguing in this thread for so many pages is EXACTLY why there will never be a parser in game..

---

So we shouldn't have the korean glams people begged for? The maid outfit etc? Because people argue about that too? Nice logic. Anyways it seems like a lot of people don't want a parser because they think it will give square enix green light to harras others, which it wont. Then my second thought is some people don't want one because they don't want to improve. So they trying to dodge that too I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinha

I do think healers should dps if they can, but some people may think it's wrong to put all of the fault on healers (who may be dealing dps already) if the group is lacking dps. I don't know what the consensus is so that's why I wrote that line.

---

Funny part is, in many shinryu fight without tanks pushing dps and healers as well, I would seen more enrages already. Healers job is to heal yes, but it's also certainly a job like everyone else, to click as many times as you can and not idle. Imagine how that would work with other classes. Over healing doesn't make you a good healer in the first place, just means you don't know how the fight works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarabeth

Really I don't care if you all argue till the end of time on this parser thing. SE has made it abundantly clear that it will not happen. I was just pointing out that you are proving their point in not adding it. You are all so quick to jump about nothing. Well have fun for another 47 pages and see where that gets you.

---

SE also said that 12 housing wards ought to be enough for everybody. Remind me again how that worked out for them and how hard they backpedalled after the epic Shirogane fiasco?

And while we're on the subject of gigantic forum threads, how about SE talking about how they don't expect healers to DPS while also giving us encounters with healing requirements so slim that Eos can do it alone?

SE says lots of things that don't line up well with what they do.