"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

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Originally Posted by Dzian

A real world comparisson could be if I went to stand outside a Wallmart store and surveyed 1,000 customers about a chocolate bar... If the comon opionion opinion was it was flavorless you wouldn't dismiss that as just a Wallmart customers opinion. nor would you call it a "vocal minority" because the millions of people who didn't take the survey or dont shop at Wallmart must think the chocolate bar is amazing.

Companies have spent billions on consumer research and the results of all that rresearch often says that for every person that complains there's 25 people that share the same complaint but remain silent about it.
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This isn't the same. You're asking people for their opinion, they are not volunteering it.

“Only 1 out of 26 unhappy customers complain.” means absolutely nothing if we don't know the total number of customers. How many happy customers were there? Did any of them say they liked the product or did they all remain silent?

People that are unhappy are far more likely to voice their opinion because they think it'll cause change. People who are in agreement are more likely to say nothing because they're happy how things are.

This goes both ways with healers who believe certain people should be left to die because they did something wrong. However as I always tell healers when leveling there are two important people in the party your tank and yourself. The Tank is number 1 unless for some reason you got Argo or close to dying.

I always explain to a new healer or DPS if for some reason you accidentally pulled or let’s say a mob is walking around. Calmly run to the tank so they can AOE The target. Remember everyone AOEing is the best way for a tank to get Argo and remember many people are playing on controller rather then keyboard.

The worst thing a tank can do is if the DPS got Argo or pulled and now the tank has some to come rescue you. Now sometimes the rescue is easy but sometimes depending on where the DPS or healer is if I run to get your Argo and chase after you I might move the mob directly into the line of fire of the healer.

When you play as a DPS you are pawn in the game. If I move around the chess board to rescue you and sacrifice the two more important piece that’s not going to help.

Remember a healer is like butter. I can’t always just move around the board to save you but I can I will.

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Originally Posted by Espon

This isn't the same. You're asking people for their opinion, they are not volunteering it.

“Only 1 out of 26 unhappy customers complain.” means absolutely nothing if we don't know the total number of customers. How many happy customers were there? Did any of them say they liked the product or did they all remain silent?

People that are unhappy are far more likely to voice their opinion because they think it'll cause change. People who are in agreement are more likely to say nothing because they're happy how things are.

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Indeed. While forums are diverse, there is one feature that binds us all.

None of us experience this game 'casually'.

Instead of playing the game and then forgetting about it until the next time we play or it pops up in our social media, we actively engage with the game when not playing it. Whether you want to connect with other players, or if you want to complain about that one thing in the game that ruins it for you... in either case, you're in deep.

That's not to say that devs should ignore us, but we aren't a complete cross-section of the player base, either. We aren't the people who answer questions when asked; nothing so passive as that. We are active - we mail our opinions to headquarters.

"You pull, you tank" is game dependent, IMHO. In FF14 i do not do this because getting aggro as a tank is very easy. Just spam AoE and all is fine. So i am not pissed off when someone pulls because i can get the situation under control very easy.


Cheers

As a main tank I am disgusted to see so many people condoning to this type of behavior.

Sure, Skiros is a troll but this post is pointing out a serious issue that should not be enabled.

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Originally Posted by PapaIggy

The assumption here is that they "don't want to play". The fact is not everyone is at the same skill level. [...]
The bottom line is if you don't have the patients are desire to deal with players who may not live up to your expectations then don't use roulette.[...]

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Skill level _doesn't matter_. Tanks play the EXACT same way at 1 group as they do 2 groups as they do 3 groups as they do 4 groups. They sit there and AoE

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Originally Posted by PapaIggy

This right here pretty much says everything that needs to be said on this topic.

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Healers are the most affected by the number of enemies that are pulled, not tanks. If anything, healers should be the one determining how much to pull. If a healer or DPS pulls, they should just bring it to the tank. If the tank lets them die, the tank is wrong. Period. End of story. The tank can certainly ask if the person can stop pulling.

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Originally Posted by Espon

This isn't the same. You're asking people for their opinion, they are not volunteering it.

“Only 1 out of 26 unhappy customers complain.” means absolutely nothing if we don't know the total number of customers. How many happy customers were there? Did any of them say they liked the product or did they all remain silent?

People that are unhappy are far more likely to voice their opinion because they think it'll cause change. People who are in agreement are more likely to say nothing because they're happy how things are.

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That's....that's not how statistics work. We don't need to see the total number of customers at all because based off the statistic you can extrapolate the total number of customers based off the number of customers that complain.... But that has nothing to do with the point that they're making. The point was that if you see a group of people complaining, then you can expect that 25 times that number are ALSO upset, just not complaining about it.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

You shouldn't try to pull if you are not a Tank.
Not because tanks cannot pull them back but because it's super annoying for the tank.
You pretty much mess with the position of the mobs making in unescesary hard to pull them back.
Not to mention some smart ashes run around jumbing tinking they are playing Lara Croft or whatever.
There are roles for a reason.
DPS should burn the targets, Healers should heal and support whenever they can and Tanks should pull and manage the crowds.
If you want to pull just play as a tank.

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Almost none of this is true.

DPS pulling mobs will have little bearing on the tank if they're remotely decent. In fact, it may be easier to take aggro because now they're all bunched together. In all my years tanking, a DPS or Healer pulling has never "messed" with my tanking unless they run around with the mobs like a headless chicken. At which point, that's on them not me. It's the only time I'm fine with letting them die.

Players run ahead because they can. Have you ever tanked a small pull as a DPS? They're comically weak. So much so that a single pulling tank is completely worthless. You aren't a tank at that point. You're a gimped DPS. The same applies for healers. There's zero threat for a DPS taking mobs because the occasional auto does nothing. There is no reason to pull small, especially at 70+. Trusts exist for a reason. Use them if you want to casually stroll through.

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Originally Posted by PapaIggy

Could you just stop, every post you make is just vitriol. The only point you have successfully made is you are an elitist womble.

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Truth hurts, huh? If you are going to single pull, you indeed don't need a tank. This is an objective fact.

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Originally Posted by PapaIggy

Truth hurts? Have you grouped with me? Do you know me? Nope? Then you really have no idea what you are talking about do you? Show me where I said yeah single pulling only? Meanwhile Ill just add you to the list of garbage people just looking for a fight.

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Delightful. Well aren't you the paragon of compassion and holiness?

Imagine accusing other people to write comments with vitriol when you take every opportunity you can to call others 'garbage people'.