Dark Knight Megathread

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Originally Posted by hotaruchan

War and PLD are what there is to compare to. and DRK is in a why should I even bother state compared to them. So just pick them up and save yourself a lot of grief is I guess the current solution unless they actually make significant changes.(likelihood of Significant changes at this point in the expac are minimal at best given track record)

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Fair point, let's forget about GNB real quick whose self sustain is perfect...

DRK should give something in return for being the hardest tank to tank with, when done right. But instead it breaks even in terms of tanking for twice the effort.
I think it comes down to preference. Do you want a slightly more interesting rotation like PLD/GNB or play the simplest rotation in the game and focus more on tanking?

A weird trade to offer, given tank rotations aren't the prio of the role in the first place, but it'd be completely fine if DRK would in return be the one offering the most utility, not PLD. Currently DRK is only the strongest offtank for his co-tank, not the party. That should change... Or the damage.

I'm tired of damage being the only thing that matters with a tiny utility being the difference. Why can't we have 4 well defined good tanks with different playstyles...not just who hits more buttons??

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Originally Posted by Zyvex

Heard many people complain and meme about DRK being insanely squishy in dungeon content and other so I quickly leveled it to 100 to check for myself...

Three friends and I cleared all current expert dungeons with DRK tank + 3 DPS and 0 deaths first try...
For tanking extremes it's also fine, if you manage your TBN usage.

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Posting this before the 6.05 notes come out, so I can't really add much to this thread anyone else hasn't since DT released.

That said, this has always been a "people who don't play/aren't used to playing drk" specific problem. So basically, a nonissue lol. Same thing happened in EW. It's been a memetic problem because it plays slightly differently from other tanks, but it's really not that crazy. I'd assume this trend would continue forever since the ShB rework, but who knows how they'll change the jobs next expac.

(Even after leveling it first in DT, my complaint is never the mitigation portion of our kit. The offensive portion is just still kinda bland and super disconnected. Hate or love former Dark Arts, stripping it out shattered the gameplay harder than the elden ring.)

Edit: LOL

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Originally Posted by Zyvex

My conclusion is that DRK balance is in a pretty good spot and there are only minor tweaks needed.
1: DRK could use 1 more healing utility, nothing busted though, just a small extra comparable to aurora. The sustain already is fine.

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I wouldn't say sustain is fine but rather that mitigation is more than fine, though that just depends on whether you consider TBN on cooldown on packs a sustain or a mit. Otherwise my experience is pretty much identical (both 8-man and dungeons): we just need something like another cast of AD and/or CnS also having a heal, or a hot while standing in Salt, or like half of Aurora built into Oblation, any one tiny thing and it's perfect. DRK is a bit behind other tanks, but it is way more robust than people make it out to be.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I'm tired of damage being the only thing that matters with a tiny utility being the difference. Why can't we have 4 well defined good tanks with different playstyles...not just who hits more buttons??

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They only balance the game for week 1 savage specifically with all other forms of content being deliberately disregarded, and the community gets really upset if you imply they should balance around anything else.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I'm tired of damage being the only thing that matters with a tiny utility being the difference. Why can't we have 4 well defined good tanks with different playstyles...not just who hits more buttons??

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Problem is, DRK in addition to all the issues is still lowest dps tank overall. While the gap might be lower than before due to buffs, being at the bottom is bad optics and only contributes to the perception is that the job sucks.

No wonder it is least played one for the new savage (Tank breakdown for M1S: WAR 34%, GNB 27%, PLD 22%, DRK 17%).

I think Dark Knight is particularly bad this tier because its a very Physical Damage heavy fight, thus you're only going to get to use Dark Missionary and Dark Mind like once.
This pairs very well with TBN's psuedo 120s CD due to the MP nerfs

The World First team did run a DRK though but I feel like it was in spite of the job, not because of anything it brought. Damage wise the tanks are pretty equal right now

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Originally Posted by Zyvex

Do you want a slightly more interesting rotation like PLD/GNB or play the simplest rotation in the game and focus more on tanking?

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You make a good point, but I'll take it in a different direction. I think there is an opportunity with DRK to be flexible with tradeoffs. Maybe it could be the best DPS tank if you play your cards that way, but you lose some defense. Or maybe the opposite could be true. You could lose out on damage and gain really good defense.
Maybe oblation should cost 1000 MP and give you a 15% MIT. OR salted earth gives you a defense buff while standing in it until you hit salt and darkness, at which point you get an MP or dps boost. If you place it wrong, your screwed.. But DRK is supposed to be a little painful.

Maybe just take from SAM and add a heal after TBN breaks (I'm salty that SAM got that btw..), but maybe you have to choose between * of shadow and a free enhanced cast of carve and spit or abyssal drain - but * of shadow has a potency increase. You lose out on certain things with certain choices.

Complexity doesn't have to be more abilities, it could be more interesting decisions. Those are major release type changes though. They wouldn't patch something major like that in a .0x or even a .x. for now it's just adjusting the potency.
Either way, DRK def needs some better stuff. It's so easy to keep darkside going without any repercussions. Even WAR has a slight consequence for picking the wrong combo 3 option. You really do have to manage surging tempest correctly or you lose out on beast gauge.

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

Problem is, DRK in addition to all the issues is still lowest dps tank overall. While the gap might be lower than before due to buffs, being at the bottom is bad optics and only contributes to the perception is that the job sucks.

No wonder it is least played one for the new savage (Tank breakdown for M1S: WAR 34%, GNB 27%, PLD 22%, DRK 17%).

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I mean even if the dps was the same down to the last digit between the four tanks, taking damage 100% out of the equation. Why would you bother bringing drk over any of the other 3? Less party utility, less sustain, one of it's major mitigations is pointless for major chunks of a physical damage predominant encounter set up. TBN has been propping up the job since it's inception and it's getting old.

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Originally Posted by hotaruchan

TBN has been propping up the job since it's inception and it's getting old.

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TBN was useful but hardly invasive in its inception in Stormblood. That just happens, though, to be a time in which tank active healing was both very high and at-cost, whereas now its less interestingly provided and (unless you fail to pop TBN) entirely "free". It's not what caused that shift though, but merely the sole survivor of it (save in that it now grants MP cost nullification instead of 50 Blood, all so we could pretend Dark Arts still exists by carrying over its name onto an effect irrelevant to its prior function).