New hrothgar hairstyles are really bad.

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Originally Posted by Denji

Not important enough.
That's it.
Wouldn't surprise me if it was to test to see if we cared or not about the ears and if we didn't, they could've just removed them all and then give us hats and act like they did us a big favour porting them.

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considering they've been removing even Miqo ears from hats for a while now, that's really not as far fetched as one would think...

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I just noticed this thread icon has a hat on it.

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Fun fact, little moogle... The crown means that the dev team noticed our displeasure and thought it was okay to stop contemplating their navels for literally one second and actually get someone on a computer to address it

...and then proceed to copy-paste what Yoshida said.

You know.

The thing that got every single Hrothgar angry in the first place because they weren't taking the bullsh** hairstyles they "offered", the removal of our ears, and the fact that modders did better in mere months when they haven't done anything in three years!

Especially after we were told to ask. Which we did.
Especially after we were told to be patient. Which we were.
We didn't go around badgering them for another gender, we went around sitting quietly, knowing Viera would get their stuff first but hopeful that they'd open their eyes and get to us eventually.
We were told to wait for 6.0, we did.
We were then told "Ok, technically 6.1, we promise, you'll have some hairs then". We did.
We waited for Live Letters to say something. NOTHING :) :) :) :)
Then when they get to it, it's the most god-awful work I've ever seen this game throw out since its revival.

And when we get riled up, justifiably so at this point, we're told "It's too hard".
And when we get riled up AGAIN because "no it's not hard at all, we're literally showing you with screenshots how to do your goddamned work, and even if it's hard, it just looks so very much like no effort went into it to the point that it's unfair"... the GM comes into this thread and says "Yoshida said it was too hard".

Yes Brenda, we know it's hard. We got that the first time. Guess what though: It convinced absolutely no one, and when the community itself demands an answer, you don't even bother!

"It's hard", yes, and Ala Mhigo is a lush green environment. "Guys, don't mod, don't use third party tools!", well get on with making the game feel good to play! Because modders have fixed a lot of the crap you guys have done, so if they can do it then CLEARLY so can you. You're paid for it, with subscriptions, revenue from people buying the full game, stuff on the mog station...

So really, Square. You're not fooling anyone.

Yes, I'm ranting. At this point it's no less than what they deserve. Seriously, this is pathetic, a multi-million dollar company and they can't even address pixels. Sis, amateurs that haven't finished their 3D modelling course have done better, what the actual hell.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Fun fact, little moogle... The crown means that the dev team noticed our displeasure and thought it was okay to stop contemplating their navels for literally one second and actually get someone on a computer to address it

...and then proceed to copy-paste what Yoshida said.

You know.

The thing that got every single Hrothgar angry in the first place because they weren't taking the bullsh** hairstyles they "offered", the removal of our ears, and the fact that modders did better in mere months when they haven't done anything in three years!

Especially after we were told to ask. Which we did.
Especially after we were told to be patient. Which we were.
We didn't go around badgering them for another gender, we went around sitting quietly, knowing Viera would get their stuff first but hopeful that they'd open their eyes and get to us eventually.
We were told to wait for 6.0, we did.
We were then told "Ok, technically 6.1, we promise, you'll have some hairs then". We did.
We waited for Live Letters to say something. NOTHING :) :) :) :)
Then when they get to it, it's the most god-awful work I've ever seen this game throw out since its revival.

And when we get riled up, justifiably so at this point, we're told "It's too hard".
And when we get riled up AGAIN because "no it's not hard at all, we're literally showing you with screenshots how to do your goddamned work, and even if it's hard, it just looks so very much like no effort went into it to the point that it's unfair"... the GM comes into this thread and says "Yoshida said it was too hard".

Yes Brenda, we know it's hard. We got that the first time. Guess what though: It convinced absolutely no one, and when the community itself demands an answer, you don't even bother!

"It's hard", yes, and Ala Mhigo is a lush green environment. "Guys, don't mod, don't use third party tools!", well get on with making the game feel good to play! Because modders have fixed a lot of the crap you guys have done, so if they can do it then CLEARLY so can you. You're paid for it, with subscriptions, revenue from people buying the full game, stuff on the mog station...

So really, Square. You're not fooling anyone.

Yes, I'm ranting. At this point it's no less than what they deserve. Seriously, this is pathetic, a multi-million dollar company and they can't even address pixels. Sis, amateurs that haven't finished their 3D modelling course have done better, what the actual hell.

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You are completely right to rant. The Devs have made promises to hrothgar players and have repeatedly let the players down. Now they've gone radio silent on the issue and will probably continue to be silent as they usually do. :)

Hmmm, let see a little fun fact from 6.1 update:

- 5 posts from Yoshida about Housing Lottery System
- 2 posts from him about PvP BM and balance
- 1 post about packet loss
- 1 post on 3rd party tool

I think we are missing something here. But since my ear got cut off for a party city wig, I can't tell very well.

I can't believe I'm actually going to need to mention this. But it seems someone got butthurt and slipped up.

Really, Yoshida? Really? An update on PVP to justify why BLM had so many buffs? Like people here didn't know you're doing this because we called you out on being biased toward Black Mage.

This is pathetic! What even is this? Are you honestly THAT butthurt that you'd make a Lodestone post on this subject? What are you, twelve!? If people think you're biased, just show otherwise, no need to come rushing to defend your petty decisions. BLM was doing poorly in PvP, we all know that, but it wasn't the only one. And it most certainly did not warrant a lengthy justification. What, you couldn't take accusations? Then act less biased toward the stuff we all know you like. Because it really isn't our bloody problem.

Because Hrothgar players have been asking for transparency and a better answer from you for months! After three years of being patient and taking virtually nothing but one piece of content that nearly amounted to "Look at all the violence toward Hrothgar NPCs!".

You think we got our answer, but we called it out on being a lie and presented evidence and even suggestions on how to do your job more efficiently. We asked for that to be acknowledged. And what we get is radio silence.
But BLM got buffed and people said "hmm. Sus" and you didn't like THAT!?

Are you joking with Hrothgar fans!? Is this some sort of petty joke? Because Housing got too many posts about it, PVP's already had 2 posts that really shouldn't have been written at all, and then you got the packet loss that. Where is the part where you acknowledge that you have players literally feeling inferior in the game you make because of YOUR DECISIONS?

1/2

And don't give me lip for us being 2%. You literally just wrote yourself into a corner there. This is on YOU now:

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Another factor we keep in mind when evaluating balance is the rate at which players choose certain jobs over others.
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When a certain job seems significantly more or less palatable to players, we both review player feedback and engage in matches ourselves to investigate any issues present in action balance or the job's fundamental mechanics. As previously stated, we try to preserve each job's individuality when applying changes, such as introducing comparable weaknesses to jobs that seem distinctly advantaged, while bolstering those that may need support.

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Your words. Replace "job" with "race", and it's virtually the same. We may be 2% but we're a bigger percentage of those who've reached endgame content.

Is this what we have to resort to now!? Constantly calling you out on ignoring us every week? Is this what we'll have to resort now, calling you biased and having a double standard? Because if that's the case then yes!

You, Naoki Yoshida, have a double standard. You know your team isn't doing a good job on the new races you gave us, especially on a race you allegedly wanted to be implemented yourself. And you aren't treating the fans that play it fairly at all. We feel like 3rd rate citizens because of your decisions, which also bolster negative actions from the rest of the community toward us. You choose to pay attention to minor aspects of the game than address something that people now have to pay for, given that Au Ra are far more finished and are a part of the Trial now.
It is Square Enix who decides to pay attention to stuff that really just comes across as petty now than fix something that would honestly make so many people happy and appreciated.
It is you who is electing to ignore all the feedback you've been given from your own fans.

This is what needs to be done, apparently, to get your attention. Calling you out on your worst impulses, saying you have a double standard. And you will ignore this, because I know you will, it's what you've been doing for three years.

And if you think it's unfair to you, believe me: No one wants to resort to this sort of crap. But it is you, Naoki Yoshida, who isn't handling the situation well.

If it's not you, then I sincerely apologize. But you are the manager of the dev team. No decision is approved without you. If someone is failing us, we can only rely on you to talk to them. So we have no other choice but to turn against YOU when YOU are butthurt about being called a BLM lover when, to us, you feel like a Hrothgar Hater.

2/2

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings, everyone.

As there have been a lot of feedback surrounding Hrothgar and their hairstyles, we wanted to share a recent update from Yoshida during the recent patch notes reading. On the stream he discussed the specifications of Hrothgar and the difficulties regarding adding hairstyles for them.

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Hello again, Zhexos,

for those not keeping track (like the Dev Team), it has been 45 days since you addressed the community, regurgitating the same "it's hard!" line that we have been given in the past, and 56 since the absolutely disastrous reveal of the new Hrothgar hairstyles, which were so bad a significant portion of the community was convinced it was an April Fools gaffe that just didn't land very well. while we have been kept in the dark and ignored, there have been at least six posts regarding housing (I see the lottery is being reinstituted), an address was made to the community about third party tools and mods (which the dev team was FAR more open to using as feedback because of the optics on the latest Ultimate world first race), several posts on PvP ranging from sportsmanship to the various balance changes (including a long winded statement on the balance changes made to Black Mage only THREE DAYS AGO), fixing the "Dragoons get the zoomies under very specific conditions" bug in a single fight that only 1-2% of the playerbase would have the potential to even encounter, weapon design contest winners, another weapon design contest for the jobs not included in the previous contest, a statement on connectivity issues, and probably some other stuff I have missed because keeping a list of everything that has happened while completely ignoring Hrothgar would be a job in and of itself. so once again I am asking when will this be officially acknowledged as well as communicated as to how the issue will be addressed?

this thread is sitting at 181 pages, that is an average of more than three pages of discussion A DAY since this all started, and while traffic has definitely slowed down because we have by this time pulverized this dead horse, we are still waiting for more acknowledgement than the same dismissive statements we have seen in the past. should we take a page from our Viera cousins and infer the only way to get acknowledgement is to spam live letters with "crab emoji Hrothgar hair crab emoji"? we deserve answers, and more importantly we deserve ACTION.

fellow PC players: I HIGHLY encourage downloading mods for hair and hats, take pictures, spread them on your twitter feeds, bring them up on Reddit threads, anything that will not directly link to your character name to get you a ban. we have been patient for three years to be treated so dismissively is simply insulting at this point, and the only way I see us getting any attention is to shame SE into action by showing how much better amateur programmers using their spare time for free are to paying a monthly sub to be routinely ignored.

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Originally Posted by Chikatsu

fellow PC players:

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Careful, you can get removed from the forums for encouraging certain things.

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Originally Posted by Roda

Careful, you can get removed from the forums for encouraging certain things.

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Yeah, I'm also worried about that statement.

But at the same time, I get what they mean, and Chikatsu's right. Seems the only way to get them to do ANYTHING is by acknowledging what they don't like more and more. And really, they only have themselves to blame.

I'd rather it didn't come to that, of course. It's a lot more permanent and long-term. But Square Enix needs to realize we're really not taking their sh*t anymore somehow.

Obviously, don't get yourselves banned. There are likely more creative ways of doing it that are also safer in the long run. So don't post anything, naturally, that would get you banned.

But this needs to be brought to SE's attention once more. And that's what we need to focus on. Maybe not get everyone collectively banned, since SE would likely be happy to do so (I'm resigned to thinking they hate us anyway, so for me they'll be happy to get rid of Hrothgar players for good). But do try to be creative in the ways we can to bring their attention.

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Originally Posted by Roda

Careful, you can get removed from the forums for encouraging certain things.

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that would also involve someone at SE actually paying attention, which so far they do not seem to be.

Must we spam this thread with screenshots of premade parties of Black Mage Hrothgars beating X content together?

To catch Yoshida out on his bias and make him realize people like his crap too?

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Must we spam this thread with screenshots of premade parties of Black Mage Hrothgars beating X content together?

To catch Yoshida out on his bias and make him realize people like his crap too?

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it would take something more like the attention paid to the Ultimate race, which is why I suggest this goes far beyond the reaches of this particular forum. there needs to be enough stink made that this is seen as an issue outside of the handful of people who stumble onto the thread.

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Originally Posted by Chikatsu

fellow PC players: I HIGHLY encourage downloading mods for hair and hats, take pictures, spread them on your twitter feeds, bring them up on Reddit threads, anything that will not directly link to your character name to get you a ban. we have been patient for three years to be treated so dismissively is simply insulting at this point, and the only way I see us getting any attention is to shame SE into action by showing how much better amateur programmers using their spare time for free are to paying a monthly sub to be routinely ignored.

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I wouldn't do this. Mostly for the safety of your own account. It's not worth it, but instead provide examples, as we have shown of how these so called 'hard tasks' according to yoshida have been completed before

they're not going to come after your character without having its name, unless you seriously think that this is going to warrant more of their attention than the rampant pos hacking done by bots.

Issue is Chikatsu, it's a rather drastic approach that could get you permanently out of the game. Not everyone has the money to afford seeing it all their effort go to waste. And even if they did, it's such a large and drastic undertaking that I don't think you could coordinate with that many Hrothgar across all Data Centers to get on board with it.

I understand the sentiment, and it could likely work. But it also could not. And the point is that we should consider other ways than just throwing our account away right out the gate.

I do hope Square IS reading this though. If not, then I'm making a new thread later specifically titled "Feedback" for us. Because here is where we post our sentiment on how they're treating the situation. But keep this thread alive, let it reach 200 pages so they can't weasel their way out of it with "Oh we did answer you, are you not satisfied?". And post what you want them to do on the other one so that they have a cleaner answer. And if they decide to ignore both, then it's on them.

Clearly a teeny-bopper job on the world's most useless piece of content garnered more thought and care from the head developer than the very race players play. That, to me, is an insult.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Issue is Chikatsu, it's a rather drastic approach that could get you permanently out of the game. Not everyone has the money to afford seeing it all their effort go to waste. And even if they did, it's such a large and drastic undertaking that I don't think you could coordinate with that many Hrothgar across all Data Centers to get on board with it.

I understand the sentiment, and it could likely work. But it also could not. And the point is that we should consider other ways than just throwing our account away right out the gate.

I do hope Square IS reading this though. If not, then I'm making a new thread later specifically titled "Feedback" for us. Because here is where we post our sentiment on how they're treating the situation. But keep this thread alive, let it reach 200 pages so they can't weasel their way out of it with "Oh we did answer you, are you not satisfied?". And post what you want them to do on the other one so that they have a cleaner answer. And if they decide to ignore both, then it's on them.

Clearly a teeny-bopper job on the world's most useless piece of content garnered more thought and care from the head developer than the very race players play. That, to me, is an insult.

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how many people racing Ultimate, blatantly streaming their use of third party tools got banned? sure, they got a DMCA on a video or two, but they still have their characters, and again, if you think this is even a blip on their radar compared to the Eureka bunny farmers, I dunno what to say other than take the paranoia down a notch or two for the sake of your sanity. I am not saying to go around Gridania shouting about shit, I am saying to be smart about it and post screenies where it can get some attention without identifying ingame information.

Just the suggestion for someone to use mods is bannable, even says so in the ToS I'm pretty sure.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Just the suggestion for someone to use mods is bannable, even says so in the ToS I'm pretty sure.

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It very much is.

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Originally Posted by Chikatsu

how many people racing Ultimate, blatantly streaming their use of third party tools got banned?

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I know. And remember, the World First that SE itself congratulated posted the screenshot with parsing tools visible.

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Originally Posted by Chikatsu

sure, they got a DMCA on a video or two, but they still have their characters, and again, if you think this is even a blip on their radar compared to the Eureka bunny farmers, I dunno what to say other than take the paranoia down a notch or two for the sake of your sanity. I am not saying to go around Gridania shouting about shit, I am saying to be smart about it and post screenies where it can get some attention without identifying ingame information.

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Issue is that Parsing Tools visible are one thing and Square already stated it was a gray area. Modding the game is what they've explicitly said was a red zone. Meaning the consequences would fall harder on people who mod than people who didn't. And there's always the chance SE will just look at what's going on and go like *shrug*

Also, no one is paranoid. Everyone is upset. Because, in the wise words of Yoko Taro:

S**T SQUARE ENIX

and I am pretty sure we long since went over that line with the various screenshots and whatnot in this thread, particularly where we have linked showing the skeletons, changing of Hrothgar head shapes, etc. hell, the "please reuse my signature" full of hats we cannot equip without mods hasn't elicited this much panic.

Chikatsu, please. for one. Calm down.

Rioting isn't a solution to this unfortunately. We shouldn't need to take an extreme decision such as this, Asking people to modify their game client is bannable. Modifying your game client is also bannable. It's not worth the RISK of having multiple accounts banned because of some riot that may not even yield results. It simply isn't worth it, weighing up the risks. All you are doing here is putting bad ideas into people's heads.

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Originally Posted by Chikatsu

and I am pretty sure we long since went over that line with the various screenshots and whatnot in this thread, particularly where we have linked showing the skeletons, changing of Hrothgar head shapes, etc. hell, the "please reuse my signature" full of hats we cannot equip without mods hasn't elicited this much panic.

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It's not panic. It's frustration. A feeling we're all very much allowed to express, given the absolute garbage state that Square Enix has left the situation in. A frustration Square needs to listen.

What IS panic is you going around NOT HELPING and telling people to go get banned like lemmings off a ledge.

ah yes, the "if we just be quiet and play by their rules, sooner or later they're bound to give us parity" approach that has worked so well so far. if ya'll are all going to cower this much over so little, just get it over with and switch to Lalafell.

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Originally Posted by Chikatsu

ah yes, the "if we just be quiet and play by their rules, sooner or later they're bound to give us parity" approach that has worked so well so far. if ya'll are all going to cower this much over so little, just get it over with and switch to Lalafell.

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Hey, you're allowed to have your opinion and approach. My approach is indeed to play by their rules, and make everyone notice that people playing by their own rules doesn't work and call them out on their own lies. I just think it's fine to be mild and reasonable before losing marbles. And trust me, if you've read page 181, I've lost A LOT of marbles in this thread.

Also no. I want to play Hrothgar. I want to play what I want to play. And if you or SE has any problem with it, then that's your personal problem.

At this point I don't have much more to say beyond the fact that I continue to be disappointed by both the initial and the ongoing design designs for both Hrothgar and Viera. Seriously a huge shame.

And the silence continues.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

At this point I don't have much more to say beyond the fact that I continue to be disappointed by both the initial and the ongoing design designs for both Hrothgar and Viera. Seriously a huge shame.

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i'm personally pretty happy with female Viera now that we're getting hairstyles. I would hope that once those issues have been put on a par with other races they start to address the hats and helm issues with at least some of the iconic head gear to start.

Horths are still suffering though and that's not good at all.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

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In general, all we want is to get noticed by the developers. We want some transparency, we want them to say 'yeah we can look into doing this'. We want them to give us an answer. There's no need for rioting in the game, on social media or anything like that. Please don't do anything that puts your account at risk. If this TRULY ruined the game that much for you, you would have unsubbed with 6.1's release. But the fact that people are still wanting to discuss this and holding onto the threads of hope that we have given ourselves show that there's still, albeit a slim chance. We can mock SE, heckle SE and hurl insults at developers all we want. But that won't change a thing, it makes us look ungrateful for the few things that we do have. It's not uncommon for SE to do stuff without telling the fans. Both to their detriment and advantage.

Yoshida. Any Community Reps and any GMs who are reading this thread. If you so happen to be. Us players are here, we have problems with your game and it's your job to fix them. We want to be respectful to you. And in turn we do expect that respect to be returned to us. We understand that you aren't some perfect being like some people on the server insist you are. Mistakes are made and mistakes can be rectified. And when these mistakes are pointed out. It is your job as the provider of a product to rectify the mistakes.

If you do not fix them... Why should you get so frustrated when players go out of their way to modify the game, or even just overlay game files in order to rectify the mistakes that you are neglecting to fix?
Is there not the double standard of the BLM fix and the Ultimate fix, hell the housing fix being fixed mere days after they were pointed out. Yet we have been left in the dark for almost... What... Almost 100 days. That's a third of the year... When are we going to get any sort of update that isn't just you regurgitating the lies that were thrown at us in the patch notes reading? Because trust me. As this thread shows.

None of us believe that, And almost everybody here has seen that what Yoshida is claiming is 'difficult' has been done, by people who haven't even finished their degrees.

Whether this is a case of gross incompetence, spaghetti code that was left untouched because of laziness or a developer who left and left his horrid code without a translation. This needs to be fixed, because this thread is proof that the players are unsatisfied.

I don't think they're '' frustrated '' by the mods, as Yoshi-P has said before just don't advertise it.
When Yoshi-P was talking about third party mods he wasn't talking about that, they just don't want to open up the flood gates by officially endorsing anything because then they'll get overflooded with the same morons who think that Discord is banned who will start pushing things and make absurd comparisons etc.
Considering the mental breakdowns people had about the last time he talked about addons I have absolutely zero faith whatsoever that people would be responsible about this at all and I don't blame them one bit for not wanting to officially endorse any addons.
Apparently people can't be expected to behave like adults about it so it's better to just say that nothing is endorsed.
If they came out and said that one addon was okay people would start pushing it and it'd soon derail into '' well why isn't this okay '' and it'd go on and on.

Something I think should be asked and brought to their attention in the next QnA is that instead of reeee:ing, ask if they have any plans to update this along with the graphical overhaul that is coming.
It's a good opportunity to go in and actually solve a lot of this since they'll already be touching up models and I have to imagine have a dedicated team working on it specifically.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

And the silence continues.

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Getting close to almost 200 pages and we only Gota vague reply from the community manager... ugh.

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Originally Posted by Denji

Getting close to almost 200 pages and we only Gota vague reply from the community manager... ugh.

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Don't lose hope. As I recall, in the male viera and female hrothgar posts, we didn't get a concrete answer from them, and even so, we got what we wanted.

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Originally Posted by Denji

Getting close to almost 200 pages and we only Gota vague reply from the community manager... ugh.

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Not a good thing, they've been locking threads at 200+ saying something about loading or lagging the fourms?

*grabs thread and puts it in the top*
Come on buddy, all your friends got mentioned at least partially on posts and such, let's see if this week you get a proper resolve.

Jokes apart, let's hope that in the coming weeks we can finally close this even if it's with a "the team saw your feedback and we're gonna act like this, it will take time".

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

Not a good thing, they've been locking threads at 200+ saying something about loading or lagging the fourms?

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The "What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?" thread is around 509 pages long so I think we shouldn't be much worried about it

I highly doubt Hrothgar will even be acknowledged again for a long while. :p

I feel you. I hope the issue with the ears gets fixed. :)

What I don't understand is that when they have the two hair models per headshape (+random face modification), why aren't the others availeble when using the aesthetician. That's like locking 90% of the hairstyles of other races because you chose a certain nose or eye shape. The first thing should be to give hroth players the opportunity to change shape. If that feels unfair, I'd like to point out that there is literally no reason not to do that with how few hair styles there are for hrothgars. While we're at it every facial feature should be available with every headshape. Horns, moustaches and beards for everyone! Hrothgars are just filled with unnecessary restrictions.

Also I'd like to see the dev team to give miqo'te players as bad hairstyles and see the reaction.

It's not a fix but would address the issue more than those ugly earless wigs.

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Originally Posted by kyyninen_kirahvi

What I don't understand is that when they have the two hair models per headshape (+random face modification), why aren't the others availeble when using the aesthetician. That's like locking 90% of the hairstyles of other races because you chose a certain nose or eye shape. The first thing should be to give hroth players the opportunity to change shape. If that feels unfair, I'd like to point out that there is literally no reason not to do that with how few hair styles there are for hrothgars. While we're at it every facial feature should be available with every headshape. Horns, moustaches and beards for everyone! Hrothgars are just filled with unnecessary restrictions.

Also I'd like to see the dev team to give miqo'te players as bad hairstyles and see the reaction.

It's not a fix but would address the issue more than those ugly earless wigs.

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Ohhh just reading it made me imagine all the unadulterated anger

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Originally Posted by kyyninen_kirahvi

What I don't understand is that when they have the two hair models per headshape (+random face modification), why aren't the others availeble when using the aesthetician. That's like locking 90% of the hairstyles of other races because you chose a certain nose or eye shape. The first thing should be to give hroth players the opportunity to change shape. If that feels unfair, I'd like to point out that there is literally no reason not to do that with how few hair styles there are for hrothgars. While we're at it every facial feature should be available with every headshape. Horns, moustaches and beards for everyone! Hrothgars are just filled with unnecessary restrictions.

Also I'd like to see the dev team to give miqo'te players as bad hairstyles and see the reaction.

It's not a fix but would address the issue more than those ugly earless wigs.

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bro, those miqo would be more rabid than the ":CRAB: MALE VIERA :CRAB: " during the live letters o-o. The funny thing is, the reaction from players of Hrothgar and these horrible wigs, its still very much more tame than the Male viera crowd and would definitely be more tame than the miqo crowd if they decided to treat them as badly as hrothgar

While it isn't the fault of people in this thread, there was a lot of infighting between both Hrothgar and female Viera players throughout the entirety of Shadowbringers encouraging "patience" and then that players "should be ashamed of the way they got male Viera." By applying consistent vocal pressure and raising the issue at every available opportunity? Clearly that seemed to work and I only wish that Hrothgar and Viera players realized that earlier.

In any case, the lack of Hrothgar hairstyles indirectly affects those of us who don't even play the race because such limited customization options leads to many players looking the same as each other and NPCs hardly having anything memorable about them. There were so many basic, logical decisions that should have happened early on in development instead of the direction they took - "unique" heads were not worth this mess. Have 4 different faces and 1 round head that hair fits on, and let the ears clip through.

That's it. That's all they needed to do, but didn't.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

While it isn't the fault of people in this thread, there was a lot of infighting between both Hrothgar and female Viera players throughout the entirety of Shadowbringers encouraging "patience" and then that players "should be ashamed of the way they got male Viera."

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It wasn't exactly infighting. Just vitriol thrown at Hrothgar players. And given we're the race with the most bullsh*t thrown at them for being "the furry race", a lot of people felt super defensive and started lashing out.

And can you blame them? I didn't see Hrothgars complain that Viera were implemented. But Viera players did care that we were around and accused us of stupid stuff. That is where the animosity started. It wasn't "infighting", just one side throwing rocks and then complaining when the others told them to stop and give them reasons why.

And for those still shaking their heads in denial: It is 100% true that Viera have had a far better treatment, if anything out of community attention. This isn't to say that Viera are in a good position, because they're not. They can't wear helmets at all, for one, and Male Viera were still launched in deplorable conditions.

But the devs always mentioned Viera and their problems, even if it was to immediately dismiss them. The community always asked for Viera and made Viera-specific content. Male Viera were the first to be presented, all the while all we wanted was hairstyles. And you've seen how awful the situation got. Otherwise this thread wouldn't have existed.

This isn't only toward Viera either. All while Bozja was coming out, you didn't see anyone give two dimes about Hrothgar, yet a cliché-ridden story like Sorrow of Werylt was being far more outspoken. Despite the fact Bozja presented actually worse fates than the Au Ra kids.

A lot of Hrothgar players feel alone, because they almost never acknowledged. And when Viera, the race everyone acknowledges, start complaining about us, then yeah it's going to feel unfair. Maybe the "infighting" would stop if people got off their high horses and realized that they need to support eachother and get the dev team to work on their priorities.

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players "should be ashamed of the way they got male Viera."

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I haven't seen anyone do that. The only thing I've seen was that people were too quick to demand Male Viera without realizing that it could make a bad situation worse. It's why "vocal demand" can be a double-edged sword. But demand is one thing. There are ways to handle demand.

Had the dev team shown us their designs for Male Viera, and said "Ok, see? It's coming. But first, let us fix the two races we have implemented so that the same doesn't happen again." But they didn't. Fan demand is what makes content, but fan demand doesn't need to be met immediately and blindly. That is on the dev team for being just as impatient.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

And can you blame them? I didn't see Hrothgars complain that Viera were implemented. But Viera players did care that we were around and accused us of stupid stuff. That is where the animosity started. It wasn't "infighting", just one side throwing rocks and then complaining when the others told them to stop and give them reasons why.

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There WERE a few people complaining about Viera existing, myself being one of them. Mostly because the race is another half-human race like AuRa and Miqote, and another tall forest race like Elezen, bringing absolutely nothing new to the game. Hrothgar were a playable beast race, something not in the game before, something the dev team wanted, and has been shafted from the beginning due to the devs caving and adding Viera into the game. Since then, Viera have been catered to and gotten blatant favoritism over Hrothgar, even getting their missing half first, and deal with less limitations than Hrothgar players have. So yeah, I still believe Viera should have never been added into the game, period, and I will die on that hill.

If the devs hadn't been showing blatant favoritism, I wouldn't be having this issue of hating Viera. Like if they had fixed the Hrothgar hair situation first before giving Viera new hair, I'd have been fine, because then both races would be getting hair at the same time. But it's clear that the devs are dealing with Viera first, leaving Hrothgar players bitter and angry over the Viera. The devs set up this entire problem from the beginning.