Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

3. Max determination on gear.

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Did you ever parse those?

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

2. 458acc for coil, 0 acc for non-coil.

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458 works for entire coil?

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Originally Posted by Yaptap

458 works for entire coil?

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Yes, the required ACC is:
Flank = 458
Rear = 435
Front = 476+-

So aslong you don't play a frontstile Monk/Dragoon all you need is 458 acc.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

Yes, the required ACC is:
Flank = 458
Rear = 435
Front = 476+-

So aslong you don't play a frontstile Monk/Dragoon all you need is 458 acc.

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Ah nice, thanks for the Information.

Are there any parsings out there between different builds, rotations?

the animation lock still sucks bad for Jump.

Is that really how acc works? o.0

And why drop Fracture? It and Phlebotomize seem to fit in so nicely with the timings of our buffs and debuffs wearing off. In fights like soldiers and knights in T4 and conflags in T5 though, I don't bother with those two anyway because the things die so fast.

I also don't do a strict rotation for my buffs, other than general rules like use life surge's crit before popping internal release and try to stack power surge with jump instead of spine shatter. I just try to keep up heavy thrust at all times and always do frac and phle right after. And if a BRD is in the party, I try to prioritize getting disembowel up particularly on the aforementioned things that need to die fast.

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Originally Posted by Riv

And why drop Fracture?

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Doesn't actually fit into rotation, high TP cost, net DPS loss (FT combo has higher potency/GCD at 226.67 than cross-class Fracture at 220).

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Originally Posted by Riv

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Yes, that is how accuracy works. Still working on something to finally prove it, but leveling jobs is a pain in the ass.

Fracture = Less DPS, less usability, TP burn, waste of an extra utility skill.

And if you're playing the Dragoon how you've described, you're not doing the optimal DPS you could output if you did it the way we advise you to do so. You shouldn't "prioritise getting disembowl". You should ALWAYS be using the Chaos Thrust Rotation as that's your most powerful skill (500 potency), so keeping this up at all times is mandatory.

Keeping up CT always comes with Disembowel debuff anyway.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

Yes, the required ACC is:
Flank = 458
Rear = 435
Front = 476+-

So aslong you don't play a frontstile Monk/Dragoon all you need is 458 acc.

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This is a wonderful nugget of info. Thank you very much. +1

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

On T5 I Invig about 10-12 seconds into Wyverns.

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Sometimes I say things I don't mean. Sorry about that. We stack all the dragons because we solo tank it. I just run an AoE rotation until ~400 tp then invigorate, and I usually stop AoEing at that point because they're either dead or close. This way I have enough tp to last until the cooldown on invigorate comes up. Sometimes we get TP song though, which helps.

Downed Titan Ex as the only melee for the first time today and the earrings dropped!

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Originally Posted by Tetsuya

Congratulations.

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Was such a relief when he went down. For a split second i thought we wiped until i saw the death animation.

Still have yet to see the Gloves, Mask or Ring.

Somehow ended up with the BRD body :\

What's the best rotation for conflags?

I know HT should be already applied and then ID on Twintania so that Dis is queued up to be used immediately on the conflag, but what's the most optimal rotation to do after that?

Assume all buffs and jumps are available going into the 1st slow conflag, then dealing with the 2nd fast one, then into the next set of them.

Without directly looking at the timing I would think besides Jump the other jumps wouldn't be available for the next set.

Can anyone breakdown the best way to deal with each conflag?

First conflag shouldn't need any cooldowns. If you don't kill the first one (slow) without buffs, then your overall groups DPS is bad. Usually, Conflag comes after a Fireball. So I start with Heavy thrust after Fireball, then Impulse Drive again on Twintania as the conflag is spawning, then Disembowl + Chaos Thrust & Full Thrust on the conflag. When it's the "fast" conflag (second, 4th, 6th etc), I just do the normal burst rotation, but just switch targets, making sure, as just as said before, HT + ID on Twintania, DI on the conflag as soon as it spawns.

This works very well, as we have x2 BRD in our group, so me applying Disembowl as soon as possible really increases the damage on conflags.

your conflag strat really relies on the groups conflag goals. If your group wants to push to do it in only 3 conflags, your best bet is to go through your normal rotation (on the slow conflag) and tab your CT and phlebotomize over to twintania to keep them up. Once the fast conflag comes down just pop everything, IR, BFB, lifesurge, PS, Jump and it'll go down very quickly. Then restart your rotation after that on the next slow conflag. Just use your IR soon as it comes up.

So on fast conflags as soon as you know the conflag is not on you, that is your time to start buffing yourself.

Im a stand still at the moment, not sure what would be more beneficial at this point, missing hasnt been an issue for me.
I currently have the allagan cuirass of maiming and a friend suggested for my next upgrade to get the Wyrms Mail actually to replace the Skill Speed with Crit. My current right side is all darklight, except my neck (which is an ultima choker) piece and im wondering should I do two upgrade on right side instead? Or try my luck for right side in coil?

I have +1, onion mask and gloves, heros belt, wyrms legs and boots

Do next weeks coil, and upgrade to i85-i90 first (so upgrade your accessories) before you bother to min/max your gear. You're going to gain very little upgrading the Cuirass of Maiming to a Wyrms mail, in comparison to gaining 2 i90 accessory upgrades, which is a much stronger upgrade. You're gaining 8 Strength in total, over gaining 5 Determination, 24 Crit (with a loss of 34 Skill Speed).

Total Stat-Weight gain of upgrading any random accessories from i70 to i90, vs upgrading your chest is higher than 6.491. I just weighed purely the Strength gain, not any other stats, as it all depends on what you'll get as drops next week.

Also, I'd aim for those Titan EX Tremor Earrings of Striking as fast as you gain. They're strong.

I remember seeing a ifrit ex rotation discussion somewhere but i cant find the pages they were on. I was wondering what was everyones rotation. The last time i ran we had 2 bards so once the nail phase started i had DI and CT ready and used that on the first nail, heavy thrust then an ID, then switch to the next nail and did the same thing, seemed to work very well and getting the CT on the nail right away gave it more time to tick, is this optimal even with 2 bards or should i just be TTT? Also, what about a normal group comp without double bard or dragoon?

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Originally Posted by Manticzeus

I remember seeing a ifrit ex rotation discussion somewhere but i cant find the pages they were on. I was wondering what was everyones rotation. The last time i ran we had 2 bards so once the nail phase started i had DI and CT ready and used that on the first nail, heavy thrust then an ID, then switch to the next nail and did the same thing, seemed to work very well and getting the CT on the nail right away gave it more time to tick, is this optimal even with 2 bards or should i just be TTT? Also, what about a normal group comp without double bard or dragoon?

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I tried to find it but couldn't.. I vaguely remember EMX saying (some combo) then Tab-target Phlebotomize the rest of the nails. I don't remember exactly though.. Still working on Titan Ex myself

Edit: Found sort of the start around page 140, maybe a few posts before that but here's a link: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1824871

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Originally Posted by Manticzeus

I remember seeing a ifrit ex rotation discussion somewhere but i cant find the pages they were on. I was wondering what was everyones rotation. The last time i ran we had 2 bards so once the nail phase started i had DI and CT ready and used that on the first nail, heavy thrust then an ID, then switch to the next nail and did the same thing, seemed to work very well and getting the CT on the nail right away gave it more time to tick, is this optimal even with 2 bards or should i just be TTT? Also, what about a normal group comp without double bard or dragoon?

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Normal comp? 4 ranged :P at least in this server some ifrit parties do not want melee.

I run with 2 BRD and a BLM, i don't think IDC, or TTT warrants that much of a game changing effect. But i respect EMX because his insight is always valuable and important.
The ranged usually gets one down when i land IDC on the 2nd one, so i just elusive jump/Dragonfire or Spineshatter to the others.

is the most recent version of logrep working post patch? I had heard there were issues with calculations being generated and some of the numbers were suspect.

I got the heros bracelet and getting heros neck very shortly.. Did coil and got the allagan pants

Is 453 ACC enough for T5? I've been doing it with 468 ACC but since I got my maiming sollerets last week, I'm kind of worried if I'll be fine with 453.

Here's my gears atm, http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/4117621/

Best rotation is still the:

H IDC P TTT H TTT
P IDC H TTT P TTT one?


Can't wait until I get the Dragoon at 50 so I can compare its DPS to monk's in Darklight + Relic.

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Originally Posted by snowybell

Normal comp? 4 ranged :P at least in this server some ifrit parties do not want melee.

I run with 2 BRD and a BLM, i don't think IDC, or TTT warrants that much of a game changing effect. But i respect EMX because his insight is always valuable and important.
The ranged usually gets one down when i land IDC on the 2nd one, so i just elusive jump/Dragonfire or Spineshatter to the others.

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Which is a shame cuz melee are perfectly viable on that (all) fights as long as they think a little about there positioning. Too many melee throw themselves into searing wind to give us a bad rep =(

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Did you ever parse those?

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Parse what about them?



On the fast conflag topic:

Disembowel -> TTT

You basically get 4 guaranteed GCDs during fast conflag. It's possible to get 5 depending on your SS and whether or not your SCH is running Selene and/or has the buff up at the time. However, 4 GCDs is reliable. DE+TTT is the highest 4. Insert off-GCDs in between as necessary/available.


On the Ifrit EX nail sequence:

- On the first nails there's not much you can do. Just TTT.
- On the second nails you can tab-PH to good effect. Not much else besides that and TTT.
- On the third nails, you can: (a) tab-PH, (b) Doomspike the pair nails, (c) stagger IDC continuously.


Method (c) is advanced and really fun, but takes a lot of attention to do while still using your off-GCD abilities and maintaining HT.

The method is to use ID on the first nail, DE on the second, then CT on the third nail. Then, go back and use ID on the second nail, then DE on the third, then CT on the fourth, and so on.

I - 1
D - 2
C - 3

I - 2
D - 3
C - 4

I - 3
D - 4
C - 5

...

I - 10
D - 11
C - 12

Etc. This will use Impulse Drive on the DE-debuffed nail. The method uses CT on the nail furthest ahead (that you can manage) so the DoT ticks up well. It also inflicts the DE debuff as soon as is reasonable for synergy with Bard pew pew behind you. It also causes you to move around the arena more slowly so you don't risk running into the howl like tab-PH might.

Thats what I've been doin lately, at the start I was just doin like ID DE and PH on the 2nd nail, then rince and repeat .. and then I realised that it wasn't really something really good on the long term :p

so i'm i90 now and a bit worried about my dps.

I've been trying to figure out a good reference point for me to test it on but i'm not sure what a good parser is right now with the 2.16 update.

Also, would parsing a dummy be the best thing to do, or maybe parsing on atomos?

parse caduceus. or titan HM

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Originally Posted by Warrlordd

parse caduceus. or titan HM

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Yeah the thing with Titan HM and Garuda for example is that they always damn jump before my power surged disemboweled blood for blood potioned full thrust.. and it drives me crazy.

can try cadeceus next week i guess as i have 1-4 cleared already.

Atomos is the most perfect thing to parse on besides dummies.

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Originally Posted by JetBrooks

Atomos is the most perfect thing to parse on besides dummies.

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Unless the other groups decide to not stand on the platform at the start OR step off the platform if they finished before your group.....

My friend tells me that Cad has the most reliable parses in general (although Bard and SMN parses will be inflated if you are aiming to assess single target DPS, due to multi-dots).

well SMN will have to move for slimes and such. I find it best to parse where there are realistic mechanics (but not necessarily enough to cause ahuge handicap)

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

My friend tells me that Cad has the most reliable parses in general (although Bard and SMN parses will be inflated if you are aiming to assess single target DPS, due to multi-dots).

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What do you parse on Cadeceus? and which one do you use if you don't mind me asking?

My friend uses ACT and he says I parse between 360-375. He mentioned something about ACT being weird the past two weeks with my "time on target" as 362, but the encounter DPS as 375. Something slightly odd with when ACT is interpreting the start and end of the fight, since encounter DPS should virtually always be lower than time-on-target.

I play MNK as my melee of choice. However, it seems to me there's not much reason to use MNK right now compared to DRG in most fights, especially because every party has a BRD in it, period. Their damage is so similar, with MNK pulling ahead slightly in sustained ST damage (assuming the fight allows for it, which thankfully T1-5 do at least), but when you add in DRG's better burst, amazing on-demand AoE, and adding anywhere from 20-30 DPS per BRD in the party, I feel like MNK is just not an efficient choice unless you really want the INT debuff from Dragon Kick. I think I do pretty well with my i90 MNK (no Allagan weapon), as my friend parses me at 370-380 training dummy DPS before going dry, but when DRG's parsing so damn close and they're MUCH less affected by mechanics and phase changes in real fights, I can't help but wonder why I play MNK (outside the fact I enjoy its playstyle more) from an efficiency standpoint.

The way I look at it, right now, DRG's presence instead of MNK's presence = more total damage due to BRD buff (in some fights A LOT more total damage) and brings more versatility to deal with adds and mechanics. MNK is something you bring when you already have a DRG and you want another melee. Thoughts on this besides "L2P," "my friend does sick damage with MNK," etc?

Mantra seems pretty useful