Main Scenario Restriction Bloodstorm - Very Very Bad idea.

I started this game roughly 5 months ago. Wanna know what was my first annoyance with the msq gated system? The fact that although I had reached 50 with SMN after a little over a month, I was locked out from lvl 50 roulettes because I hadn't finished questing ARR. I told myself that was fine because you know what, lvl 50 isn't the cap and besides, this is just a daily. There's always endgame content waiting for me once I cap, right?

10 lvls later (approximately 2 weeks later) MSQ gating sternly reminds me that I can't do any lvl 60 content unless I go through with it. At this point, you could ask why just not go through with the story?

I was. Day by day. Thatl's the problem.

FF14, for new players, is a smorgasbord of entry-level content. It's vast. It's beautiful. It has the gold saucer. It has grand companies. It has FATES. It has guildhests. Levequests. Jobs galore. It has a myriad of things to do and if you're not careful, you're going to cap with your first job real early.

Then slowly but surely, the enjoyment you were getting from msq turns to necessity because as much you want to like the story and as much as you try to progress through it on a daily basis, you keep asking yourself why are you barred from doing lvl 60 content when you've reached it without trying hard at all?

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Originally Posted by Terribad

Just face it, not everyone that plays an MMO (which is what this is) gives a crap about lore.

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You can't tell him that or no one else. He is just going against you and minces up words for the hell of it.
I just want the fetch quest and MSQ to be cut a bit and let new players have more fun than to slodge through boring text and going from point A to B
over and over until they just quit from boredom.
2.0 is just so terribly boring...At least HW is a way more engaging. I didn't give a crap about the Scions.
The only time it got good for me was at 40 with the whole kidnapping thing.

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

You can't tell him that or no one else.

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I just don't understand it though D: If a bunch of hardcores came saying "You need to be like us" they'd loose their mind. People play MMOs for so many different reasons.

2.0 was very boring, which is why I stopped paying attention to the MSQ. I had every attention to get into the lore here, but like many other MMOs out there it was just boring.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Then slowly but surely, the enjoyment you were getting from msq turns to necessity because as much you want to like the story and as much as you try to progress through it on a daily basis, you keep asking yourself why are you barred from doing lvl 60 content when you've reached it without trying hard at all?

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This is why it's so important to remember that it's an MMORPG, and I mean for everyone to remember. A lot of the content you'll do to complete the story can be done with friends, obviously not so much on the fetch quests and such like, but even then, a friend can accompany you and you can work on FATE and leves or whatever along the way.

Part of the problem I feel for new players joining the game is that they might have friends at level 60, and so when they get to that level and through the MSQ they can run the same content and play together, sound great. Except that they have to get there first - which is a fun journey in and of itself. However, for a new player, it can be a lonely journey, which is ironic considering this is a multi-player game. This is why I wish people would be more open to joining FCs that are not progression minded end-game lobbies. It would be great if more established players would realize this and put more time and effort into welcoming new players and helping them along in the game. It would certainly make things less lonely for them while they work through all that MSQ.

I'd certainly look forward to all these people then complaining about the lack of content when they just skipped 80% of the game, I'll give you that much.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

No, but you needed it to acces Dynamis, Sky and progress farther into RoV. And beating Shadowlord was absolutely meaningless in leveling up, where as in XIV, the MSQ is generally the fastest way to level, explore and gear up. As for Sea, it should have since the whole plot of CoP depends on the events in ZM. Didn't you find it silly to see dead people come back ?

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Look, if endgame is locked behind the story of the same expansion it's in, that is fine. If you're locking current content behind 5-10 years of content, then you're making a huge mistake. Even Zilart, which did require you to beat the Shadowlord to even start its story, still allowed you to explore Zilart zones.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Yeah, imagine that, I'm a new player in the fifth expansion, and I burn every content in one month because the only thing that matters is the lattest expansion, especially with a leveling potion. Now, I'm bored and have to wait 6 months for anything remotely new to do. That's far more silly to offer to a new player.

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Hyperbole. FFXI, the game you've been trying to use as an example, also says hi (and yes, I'm aware that some of the later expansions recommended you to be at a high level, but you could still enter and explore their starter dangerous zones. RoV, once again, was a free update. Not an expansion).

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Part of the problem I feel for new players joining the game is that they might have friends at level 60, and so when they get to that level and through the MSQ they can run the same content and play together, sound great. Except that they have to get there first - which is a fun journey in and of itself. However, for a new player, it can be a lonely journey, which is ironic considering this is a multi-player game. This is why I wish people would be more open to joining FCs that are not progression minded end-game lobbies. It would be great if more established players would realize this and put more time and effort into welcoming new players and helping them along in the game. It would certainly make things less lonely for them while they work through all that MSQ.

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Definitely. I would like to see more lower-level activities that can be level-synced but which could offer rewards that are appealing to both high level and low level players. This could really help get new players into the game and also help with FC recruitment of new players.

Palace of the Dead does this a bit with XP for low level players and good rewards for high level players, though it is a bit unnerving when you level way past your actual level; tome bonus makes noob farming good for experienced players also, but .... I'm thinking possibly something like.... maybe low-level or level-synced content that resembled the Aquapolis or Diadem? or advanced guildhests? or lv30 raids with good rewards? or party Level Sync for open world content other than FATEs? or ??? Basically stuff to incentivize experienced players helping new players on the same server and to make it fun for everyone to play in the same party. (Though perhaps I'm ignoring Novice Network since I don't use it.)

In general I too would like to see more support (both from the game and from the players) for free companies to help new players work their way through the game rather than just saying "eh, do quests on your own and use duty finder."

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I'm not in favor of "story skip" potions, or whatever - but I AM in favor of giving newer players endgame activities to look forward to that do NOT depend on Main Scenario completion. They can participate in these activities while they tackle the MSQ at their leisure - and for folks who simply don't ever want to bother with MSQ, it gives them a reason to keep playing, as well.

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YES. This is exactly what I've been saying. Just make the MSQ not necessary to unlock dungeons/move on to HW/the next expac. Let people do the story on their own terms and engage with the rest of the content when they want.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

This isn't a game of instant gratification, for the most part at least, People really shouldn't play a game that revolves around a STORY if they never want to bother with it. There are other games out that that don't require you to do a story or any actual work and just get straight to the game, like sports games. SE can't just cater to the extreamely lazy just so they have a "reason to keep playing" in fact those type of players are the ones that just cap out on gear shortly after a patch, and then unsub till next patch.

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Because grinding to 60 on dungeons or mobs is "instant gratification"... it's not. It's letting people play the game how they want.

Y'all keep holding up the story as though it's some holy grail, but.. it's really not. It's okay, even entertaining in some parts. But for the most part it's cliche and predictable and for the entirety of 2.0 it was boring as heck.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

Why wouldn't it force you to, that is what it SHOULD do, why on earth should everyone have access to everything the moment they are plopped in the game, yea just throw a fresh character in HW area, with no idea why they are there, this is an RPG, you SHOULD be required to deal with a story, otherwise, why are you here?

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You are deliberately misinterpreting people's words. Either that or you're not reading things at all... We are not asking to skip all content and instantly have access to all end game materials. We just want the MSQ requirement dropped.

I can see where both sides are coming from with ditching the MSQ requirement. The story is THE central part of this game, there is no way to get around that. However, not everyone wants to be the warrior of light, but just running raids and dungeons and I see nothing wrong in allowing them to do that without the MSQ.

The pros with having the MSQ required is that it makes the game last longer. The biggest problem in many MMORPGs are the endgame and running the same content over and over and over and over again for months at end, something many who have reached 60 is fully aware of. Personally I in part love that grind, but what I truly burn for is the MSQ and the world FFXIV takes place in, and to skip that would be a diservice to yourself in my opinion. Why is it a problem to make some people able skip MSQ you might ask? Well, you see, if MSQ is never required people might be less helpful to run content such as Garuda Normal with FC members as it is not "required" of them to be able to get up to speed. It would also likely follow with many design changes to this game that would all hurt the at the moment ease of getting into end game content. While most players are at the current end game that current end game is just a small portion of the game, and in the larger part of things a small part of the time a player will spend in FFXIV.

Another pro is that it helps to ensure that people have at least an understanding of the core of the game. Sure, it is very much possible to skip the dungeons and things by getting an FC member to run it unsynched with you, but most who are not MMO veterans and have former experience will not likely do this which makes sure they get a basic understanding of how the combat and party construction works amongst other thinngs.

It also creates an investment into the game before you have reached 60. This is very important for psychological reasons as it creates a value in what you do and makes you feel happier about it as you have earned it. Sure, there are still entitled people who think they deserve to be carried through Savage because they sub each month, but there are fewer of those here than in other comparable MMORPGs from my experience just because everything in this game requires that you have done something else to get it as a reward. It eases the people into the experience of having to do things to earn other things.

The pros to ditch them are also there though. Many do not care about that mainstory or the WoL status at all. They might just want to raid or PvP and for those the main story is worthless as it only gates them off the content that they want to play. PvP players are especially screwed in this game as there is yet no way to level via PvP at all forcing them to do plenty of PvE content they might not care about at all. Many raiders would maybe want to do the MSQ when they do not raid or are queueing for a raid, but that is not possible now which makes it feel like a heavy lock to pick to get to the stuff they want instead of an entertaining experince. For these players having the story being non-mandatory would actually make it feel more fun and entertaining.

Another clear pro is that even those who do enjoy the story will not feel any stress at all tied into completing it ASAP to be able to play content with their friends. Because even though those friends will likely help them I bet they would rather want to play with their friends content that they need and enjoy. Or by the seven hells, they might just want to level up by running PotD with them or something.

The part I can not stand behind though that is in the OP is to make players skip to level 60. What that did to the WoW community is baffeling. It sure is fun running endgame with people who do not know their most basic rotations, and this game even with its most basic rotations (for most classes) can be quite complex and demanding quite an understanding about most, if not all the abilities learned. While there sure already are people who do not know what they are doing at all this would as sure as my name is <not gonna reveal my name> increase that percentage by A LOT. I do not want the daily roulette dungeons to take 40+ minutes because I run with a frostmage or an auto attack bard.

No one wants to be bad, but far from everyone wants to get the answer yelled at them by watching a video or something, not out of laziness (I belive more about people than that) but because they want to figure it out themselves, but that can take time to some and 1-60 is a long time to figure each new ability out. If there is a instant 60 skip you can swear that many people will do that because people enjoy shortcuts, not because they are lazy, but becaue it is more convenient to get up to speed at once. That is, however, the biggest pitfall someone get themselves into.

I can see where all sides comes from in this discussion, but I personally still think that MSQ requirement is a good thing even if I see the flaws in it. I can understand why some people want it gone, and I can agree that for some stuff like PvP and new jobs it should certainly NOT be a requirement t all. This is my stance on the matter, and I respect that some does not agree and I will not die if they remove this as it will likely not affect the player base to badly.

On the instant 60 part, however, I do completely not agree. I can see where MMO veterans come from about this due to them already knowing the fundamentals. But many new players aren't veterans and it can tbh be overwhelming to see all those abilities and trying to figure out a decent rotation. This I am very strongly against as it will affect the playerbase in the worst way possible by filling the dungeons with completely new players. I am always happy to help new players, but I sure do not want to lecture people fifteen minutes to half an hour each time I enter a dungeon about how their class works on a basic level. I am content enough about teaching people in 2-5 minutes mid run if I see any problems about one aspect at a time in some low level dungeons such as the important of a job in Brayflox and party composition in Sastsasha.

TL;DR
I would be OK with skipping MSQ, but instant leveling potions are literally poison to MMORPG communities.