Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

Just out of curiosity, where do you guys use your Leg Sweep in your rotation?

I put mine in between Disembowel and Chaos Thrust to cut the animation since DS is such a long animation.

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It's usually one of the last oGCD abilites I use. This is mainly due to how I have the controller set up, IDC combo is on the left side so I use the left side buffs first, leg sweep is on the right side, so I usually throw it in during TTT or Ph <LS> TTT.

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

Just out of curiosity, where do you guys use your Leg Sweep in your rotation?

I put mine in between Disembowel and Chaos Thrust to cut the animation since DS is such a long animation.

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Ummm, it depends.

Most of the time it's right between True Thrust and Vorpal Thrust. The other occasions, it's the same as yours.

Right before Phlem. Every time. Helps to keep track of whether I'm using HT or Phlem in the combo too

I use it before Plebotomize.

Not including ssd and dfd what is your rotation with ogdc spells

I didn't want to create a new thread so I'm going to ask it here and hopefully get some answers. I finally got started on playing a LNC. And at lvl 15, I have access to the True Thrust combo, and Impulse Drive.
In terms maximum DPS at that lvl, would be more effective to go,
HT-ID-ID-ID-ID

Or

HT-TT-VT-TT-VT

I'm only thinking about this through potency since I don't have actual numbers to work with. At this lvl, I get ID which has a potency of 180 from behind, TT(100), VT(200 comboed).

So for every two GCD, I get 360 Potency from ID, whereas the VT-TT combo only gives me 300.

So would it better to go with ID or TT-VT for maximum dmg? (This is my real question)

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Originally Posted by DxWings

I didn't want to create a new thread so I'm going to ask it here and hopefully get some answers. I finally got started on playing a LNC. And at lvl 15, I have access to the True Thrust combo, and Impulse Drive.
In terms maximum DPS at that lvl, would be more effective to go,
HT-ID-ID-ID-ID

Or

HT-TT-VT-TT-VT

I'm only thinking about this through potency since I don't have actual numbers to work with. At this lvl, I get ID which has a potency of 180 from behind, TT(100), VT(200 comboed).

So for every two GCD, I get 360 Potency from ID, whereas the VT-TT combo only gives me 300.

So would it better to go with ID or TT-VT for maximum dmg? (This is my real question)

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It's actually 150 potency on TT, so TT -> VT is 350 Potency or 175 average potency. ID is 180 potency. While it is indeed a DPS increase to spam ID, the gains are minimal and the penalty for missing even one ID's rear bonus negates the benefits of the whole encounter usually. The best thing to increase your DPS at that low level is CC Fracture and use it liberally.

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Originally Posted by DxWings

I'm only thinking about this through potency since I don't have actual numbers to work with. At this lvl, I get ID which has a potency of 180 from behind, TT(100), VT(200 comboed).

So for every two GCD, I get 360 Potency from ID, whereas the VT-TT combo only gives me 300.

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TT is 150 potency, not 100.
That leaves us with 350 potency, which is still 10 potency lower than ID spam. So yes it is slightly more dps to use ID. However keep in mind that missing only one ID completely plummets your dps and its also slightly more TP consuming.

Alright thanks a lot guys. Trying to learn DRG as best as I can at a lower lvl and work from there so I can have a better understand of future rotations.

I didn't think about "missing that one rear bonus decreasing my dps scenario."

Thanks again!

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Originally Posted by Manticzeus

Not including ssd and dfd what is your rotation with ogdc spells

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Well if IR + BB is up it is the following:

(HT + IR + ID + B4B + DS + LEG SWEEP + CT + PS + PHLEB + JUMP + TT + VT + LS + FT + HT + TT +VT + LEG SWEEP + FT + PHLEB) and here is where my DS and
CT have around 6 seconds or so left so i start from the beginning

Has it been discovered yet what the flank accuracy requirements are for the different coil turns and ex primals c.c?

I got my Allagan Spear last night and Maiming Bracelets so I'm trying to push out any damage I can with them so if I can drop some accuracy I'll happily do it.

Currently working with 472 on 1-4 and 482 (483 due to gear) on 5, but I'm seeing talk of dropping lower now?

For all coil turns, yes, there is a different accuracy. No, we don't know what they are, other than rough estimate of 458 from the flank on T5. There's no accuracy (well, 341) for Extremes apparently. And drop down lower to 460.

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Originally Posted by Ihm

Has it been discovered yet what the flank accuracy requirements are for the different coil turns and ex primals c.c?

I got my Allagan Spear last night and Maiming Bracelets so I'm trying to push out any damage I can with them so if I can drop some accuracy I'll happily do it.

Currently working with 472 on 1-4 and 482 (483 due to gear) on 5, but I'm seeing talk of dropping lower now?

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Pretty sure people have been running mid-460s in T5 with very very very very little likelihood of missing.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

For all coil turns, yes, there is a different accuracy. No, we don't know what they are, other than rough estimate of 458 from the flank on T5. There's no accuracy (well, 341) for Extremes apparently. And drop down lower to 460.

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I run with next to no accuracy in Extremes, I think I'm around 341 actually.

So do Turns 1-4 require less accuracy than Turn 5, if we're aiming for 458/460 range on Turn 5?

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Originally Posted by Ihm

I run with next to no accuracy in Extremes, I think I'm around 341 actually.

So do Turns 1-4 require less accuracy than Turn 5, if we're aiming for 458/460 range on Turn 5?

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Yup. I just throw my 460 set on and just do work on 1-4. Honestly, all you'll be gaining from having lower and lower Accuracy is more Skill Speed, which could in-turn give you a big TP deficit.

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

Well if IR + BB is up it is the following:

(HT + IR + ID + B4B + DS + LEG SWEEP + CT + PS + PHLEB + JUMP + TT + VT + LS + FT + HT + TT +VT + LEG SWEEP + FT + PHLEB) and here is where my DS and
CT have around 6 seconds or so left so i start from the beginning

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Is there a reason you dont use B4B to buff ID too? I usually swap B4B and ID around and still have enough time to get a HT into it at the end usually.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Yup. I just throw my 460 set on and just do work on 1-4. Honestly, all you'll be gaining from having lower and lower Accuracy is more Skill Speed, which could in-turn give you a big TP deficit.

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Honestly, I can't name a fight before T4 where high SS for a DRG results in serious TP issues. All the Primals have lots of forced down-time and all other fights are just too short.

Maybe Ultima HM. But then again, Aetheric Boom has just enough forced downtime to get enough TP back :\

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Originally Posted by Manticzeus

Is there a reason you dont use B4B to buff ID too? I usually swap B4B and ID around and still have enough time to get a HT into it at the end usually.

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People do that because there's fights, like ADS or Titan, where players are scared they may mistime avoiding the AOEs, and losing their buffs on the Full Thrust. Another argument is that they find IR still ticking over Life Surged Full Thrust to be a "waste". I still, I don't think any of those arguments warrant a loss in -54 potency on the Impulse Drive.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Honestly, I can't name a fight before T4 where high SS for a DRG results in serious TP issues. All the Primals have lots of forced down-time and all other fights are just too short.

Maybe Ultima HM. But then again, Aetheric Boom has just enough forced downtime to get enough TP back :\

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I've actually nearly ran out of TP on T4 a fair few times, as our SCH uses Selene with those Skill Speed Buffs lol :P But yeah, just do whatever you fancy for EX's tbh.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

People do that because there's fights, like ADS or Titan, where players are scared they may mistime avoiding the AOEs, and losing their buffs on the Full Thrust. Another argument is that they find IR still ticking over Life Surged Full Thrust to be a "waste". I still, I don't think any of those arguments warrant a loss in -54 potency on the Impulse Drive.

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aye im on ps3 and graphical lag/network lag affect me very much so; i like to give myself as much of a buffer as i can to ensure important buffs do not fall off at the end of a combo, ie. full thrust. i'll take the -54 potency on ID to ensure B4B is definitely up on LS'ed FT.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Honestly, I can't name a fight before T4 where high SS for a DRG results in serious TP issues. All the Primals have lots of forced down-time and all other fights are just too short.

Maybe Ultima HM. But then again, Aetheric Boom has just enough forced downtime to get enough TP back :\

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I've definitely run out of TP on ultima; in fact its a guarantee with my SS =\

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

I've definitely run out of TP on ultima; in fact its a guarantee with my SS =\

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Hmm...last time I ran Ultima as DRG I didn't have major issues. I may have had a lot of running around, esp during the second laser phase (thanks ranged for killing random bits), to make up for it. IDK. I've had more issues as a WAR though...

I very nearly run out of TP on Caduceus.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

I very nearly run out of TP on Caduceus.

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Yeah I was going to say, dragoons run out of TP on t1/t4/t5 all the time. As the rest of your group's DPS goes up, you won't run out of tp on t1.
However, on turn 4 you invigorate after first spiders, then on cooldown.
On t5 you invigorate after small dragons are dead, then on cooldown, then after snakes are dead.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

People do that because there's fights, like ADS or Titan, where players are scared they may mistime avoiding the AOEs, and losing their buffs on the Full Thrust. Another argument is that they find IR still ticking over Life Surged Full Thrust to be a "waste". I still, I don't think any of those arguments warrant a loss in -54 potency on the Impulse Drive.

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Ok thats what i was thinking too. Thanks, seems my rotation is right on.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Honestly, I can't name a fight before T4 where high SS for a DRG results in serious TP issues. All the Primals have lots of forced down-time and all other fights are just too short.

Maybe Ultima HM. But then again, Aetheric Boom has just enough forced downtime to get enough TP back :\

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I used to run out of TP on T4(even if my SS is not high) because we did lack of aoe damage at this time.But now we got a BLM spawning 3 flare all time so it helps a lot :D

I have a questions that's probably been answered thousand times before.

I currently play with an accuracy of 476 when I enter Bahamut's Coil and we've cleared Turn 5 a couple of times now. The parser shows no misses on Twintania so far.
But is the cap of ~472 the lowest I can go or is Twintania's hitcap even lower than that?

I know there has been testing a while back. I followed the discussion when it started but the front page doesn't show a definite cap. There is talk of acc 482...but also mentioning of the discussions.
I've seen the list for BiS and used it for my gear but I don't know if I could drop lower than acc 472 for Turn 5.

So...question being: did you already narrow down the hit cap on an exact number somewhat or since it isn't on the front page I just have to figure it out myself?

Thanks for your time :)

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Originally Posted by Lauryll

stuff

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You can go as low as 458 ACC and never miss aslong as you attack from the Rear and Flank.
Rear = 435
Flank = 458
Front = 476+-

Only tanks are required to be at acc cap as they have to be infront of the boss.

That pretty much goes for every encounter in Coil.
The misses are usually parsed in the snake phase in which you can't avoid attacking from the Front depending on the positioning of your group and the snakes.

Very simple question, probably one that might have been asked before, but how is (for the no accuracy build) the Onion Tassets better than the Hero of Maiming Belt? Wouldn't the 2 STR + 1 Crit be better than the 10 determination you get?

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Originally Posted by Decrith

Very simple question, probably one that might have been asked before, but how is (for the no accuracy build) the Onion Tassets better than the Hero of Maiming Belt? Wouldn't the 2 STR + 1 Crit be better than the 10 determination you get?

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Strength has a weighting of 1, Crit 0.184 and Determination 0.323

If you take the values you've said and multiple them by their weightings you'll see the total with Onion is higher.

2 STR + 1 Crit = 2.184
10 Determination = 3.23

^^/

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Originally Posted by Decrith

Very simple question, probably one that might have been asked before, but how is (for the no accuracy build) the Onion Tassets better than the Hero of Maiming Belt? Wouldn't the 2 STR + 1 Crit be better than the 10 determination you get?

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Its based on these stat weights:
Weapon Damage: 8.488
Strength: 1
Determination: .323
Crit: 0.184
Skill Speed: .152

So in terms of relative Strength -
Onion Tassets = 16.07
Allagan Tassets of Maiming = 15.432
Hero's belt of Maiming = 15.024

The onion Tassets are slightly better however, if you are a PVP whore like me than it is best to use -
Direwolf belt of Maiming = 16.553

Allthough it is BiS I guess they left it off the list as it is hard to obtain for people who do not enjoy PVP.

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Originally Posted by Ihm

Strength has a weighting of 1, Crit 0.184 and Determination 0.323

If you take the values you've said and multiple them by their weightings you'll see the total with Onion is higher.

2 STR + 1 Crit = 2.184
10 Determination = 3.23

^^/

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Alright thanks, It seems like I mixed up the stat weights and thought 1 str = 8 det xD when it was actually 1 weapon damage = 8 str xD

@pompey
Oh I do like PvP, I just don't like going alone, which has been my problem for a while now, can't find a party who consistenly want to go.

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Originally Posted by Decrith

Very simple question, probably one that might have been asked before, but how is (for the no accuracy build) the Onion Tassets better than the Hero of Maiming Belt? Wouldn't the 2 STR + 1 Crit be better than the 10 determination you get?

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Pretty sure even under the old weights that would have been a close call, and the old weights undervalued Det.

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Originally Posted by Eclips

On t5 you invigorate after small dragons are dead, then on cooldown, then after snakes are dead.

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On T5 I Invig about 10-12 seconds into Wyverns.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

On T5 I Invig about 10-12 seconds into Wyverns.

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Why? Does your group stack the Scourges almost on top of Twintania for an AoE fest?

Not really, we just AOE the 3 wyverns until the first one dies (I think our Monk just does a single target cycle though). Doomspike spam on 3 targets is efficient. My TP will get dangerously low right around the first conflag, where Invig pops again. Then it's generally fine, just about running out when we switch to divebombs. As long as I end the wyvern segment with about 750+ TP, I should be good.

Edit: HT bfb ROT ir+ps DS dfd DS ls DS invig DS jump DS is about it. Then PH/ssd the second then third wyvern before the original HT expires. Then HT ROT into TTT spam until they drop with Mercy Stroke in there as well. After about 2-3 sets of TTT, the last two will die and I EJ over to Twin and pew pew.

In retrospect we probably should stack all 4, although that would require adaptation to avoid plummets. The RNG on liquid hells would be more dangerous too.

How much skill speed are you running if you need to Invigorate so early? DS + RoT spam so early into the fight wouldn't make you run out of that much TP. Or are you just using it to compensate for the lack of TP you'll have come Phase 2?

I also take it your SCH uses Selene for the Skill Speed buffs?

Humm, not much skill speed. I hit the Invig as soon as I drop to 440 TP. Yes, our SCH uses Selene's buff. My memory's probably off -- it may be like 15 seconds into the fight when I hit Invig. Seems like it's closer to the start, but I guess not really.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

In retrospect we probably should stack all 4, although that would require adaptation to avoid plummets. The RNG on liquid hells would be more dangerous too.

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My group's just not been fortunate enough to keep the scourages clumped enough me to use doomspike. I pair up with a MNK,BLM,BRD for coil but we've had no issues just single targeting the scourges down. Thanks for explaining why you use your invigorate so early.

Jesus.. this Thread has grown since i've last checked it and actually has a lot of new Informations in it.. Since 45 Pages seems a lot to read through, i may post my Rotation and would appreciate any advice to change things around. I've mainly tanked for the last couple month, but currently i am getting back into DRG.. so i feel rusty as hell lol. I did read a couple of the last Pages but did not find any actual dps numbers i could compare to... soo:

HT - Ir - Fr - BB - Ph - Sweep - ID - PS - DB - Jump - CT - TT - SD - VT - Ls - FT - HT - Frac - Ph - TT - VT - FT - ID - DB - CT

( After i used CD's like Ir, BB and Sweep i usually pop them as soon as they are up again between skills ).

Advices are much appreciated and also Informations about Acc regarding positions like flank etc, this is actually first time i've heard about it. x_x

1. Drop Fracture.

2. 458acc for coil, 0 acc for non-coil.

3. Max determination on gear.

... that's pretty much it for the past 80 pages, lulz.