Monk 3.0 CHAKRA UNLEASHED

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Originally Posted by Ossom

Thats where BIS come from, sets that prioritize the better secondary stats.

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Thanks a lot for the clarification. What I understood from it is that even though I did get the Hellfire Helmet, ring and bracelet before others, as long as my stats are optimal it really shouldn't matter too much.

This is currently my BiS Solution for Monks who hit the A6S wall:

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/UQMW

With this gearset, I can beat the A8S SSS Dummy with anywhere between 20-24 seconds remaining. This is without food and pots. Also, I use Forbidden Chakra because I have enough TP left over to warrant not using Purification.

Is there anything else I can do to further increase my DPS (besides using food and pots) or am I simply held back the gear I currently have available to me?

Hi everyone, I recently gained my lvl 60 on my MNK !

A friend tried to teach me the job, and i'm currently practicing this opener :

Fist of Fire --> Meditation x5 --> Form Shift to Coeurl Form --> Shoulder Tackle --> Demolish --> Touch of Death --> Perfect Balance --> Snap --> IR + B4B --> Snap --> Howling Fist --> Dragon Kick --> Steel Peak --> Twin Snakes --> Forbidden Chakra --> Snap

I just want to be sure, is it optimal ?

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Originally Posted by Sekundessounet

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Short answer, no. This is the rotation I use: http://ffxivrotations.com/77n, due to how the game is there is no one optimal rotation but the one you posted blows all cooldown way early and also does a GL1 unbufffed ToD and is quite unoptimized.

EDIT: Long answer
Using ToD early to get more DoT ticks is not optimal due to all the buffs, using it after GL1 is 10% damage buff compared to using it a lot later in the rotation. On the second skill it's 2.4 seconds into the fight. Comparedly where it's placed in my rotation which is 15 seconds into the fight, meaning that it's missing 12.6 seconds worth of dot ticks which is 4.2 ticks = 105 potency out of it's 270 potency or 115,5/297 with GL1. Using it at GL3 with IR, BfB, TS, DK is a 30 + 16 + 10 + 10 + (10) = 66%(76%) increased damage. 20*1.78 + 250*1.68 = 35.2 + 415 = 445.2 looking at the difference in potency we get 445.2 - 297 = 148.2 potency meaning that the buffed ability is worth more than the unbuffed ToD. The same more or less goes for all the ogcds, saving the cooldowns until after all buffs are up is way more efficient in the majority of the fights, except Shoulder Tackle which can be used in the opening of the fight and will still have BfB up when it is ready again. This is the reason for the layout of my rotation, fracture is also added at the end still being under pot + BfB for extra damage. As for Snap first vs Demo first, Snap does come out in most cases were you are able to open from the flank which is most fights, Demo is superior in most cases if you can attack from the back, like for dummy parses.

I remember seeing a 850 sks rotation where the bootshine > true strike was doubled up instead of being used alternate to dragon kick > twinsnakes.

Is this rotation worth gunning for? Is the dps increase significant enough to outweigh the skillspeed oversaturation? I am also aware that this is a dummy rotation since the timers on dragon kick and twin snakes is very tight using the 850 sks rotation.

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Originally Posted by HoLoFoNo

I remember seeing a 850 sks rotation where the bootshine > true strike was doubled up instead of being used alternate to dragon kick > twinsnakes.

Is this rotation worth gunning for? Is the dps increase significant enough to outweigh the skillspeed oversaturation? I am also aware that this is a dummy rotation since the timers on dragon kick and twin snakes is very tight using the 850 sks rotation.

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That sks seems way too low to be able to double up on bs/tru, You'd be running over 17 seconds between uses of dk and twin....

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Originally Posted by Krindor

. As for Snap first vs Demo first, Snap does come out in most cases were you are able to open from the flank which is most fights, Demo is superior in most cases if you can attack from the back, like for dummy parses.

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I have yet to do a single fight in the game where can't hit the first demo positional using a demo snap snap opener other than big guys like Nidhogg. Is there another reason why starting with snap is better?

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Originally Posted by Claymore022

I have yet to do a single fight in the game where can't hit the first demo positional using a demo snap snap opener other than big guys like Nidhogg. Is there another reason why starting with snap is better?

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If you attack the second a mob is pulled it is near impossible to get the rear positional. Snap vs Demo not including positionals is even, they perform better than each other depending on fight and in a min-max scenario should be changed depending on fight.

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Originally Posted by HoLoFoNo

Is this rotation worth gunning for? Is the dps increase significant enough to outweigh the skillspeed oversaturation?

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Naw, anything with a proper ToD in it is gonna be stronger and the TP concerns ring hollow when the big enemy recently is the frequent breaks in action.

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Originally Posted by Krindor

If you attack the second a mob is pulled it is near impossible to get the rear positional. Snap vs Demo not including positionals is even, they perform better than each other depending on fight and in a min-max scenario should be changed depending on fight.

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But if you attack a second late then easy to hit it every time. I find it hard to see starting with demo as being a loss based on that. Even bosses that are a little larger can still be hit from the rear pretty easily. Like the first boss in a8 for example (cant think of his name right now), if the tank pulls with a ranged attack and you shoulder tackle as soon as he does then the boss will be moving in the opposite direction of you making it really easy to execute consistently while only needing to take a few steps. Idk, its just I've started with demo on every boss I've done besides Nidhogg and have never seen a reason not too

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Originally Posted by Claymore022

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If you attack a second later it's just a loss and snap first is better in that case, At 2.36 GCD and let's say an average of 160 potency, delaying it by second would net you a loss of 67.8 potency. The average difference between a flank snap and rear demo is 14 potency if both land the positional, looking at your average fight this difference is more in favor of snap, now if you're delaying Demo by even half a second snap will come ahead in every case of the fight.

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Originally Posted by Krindor

Fracture is always useful and if someone did that discussion on MNK they have no idea how it works, both MNK and WAR gains by using it. DRG and NIN does not. The reason fracture is so useful on MNK that it is more of a filler than damaging move, while ToD does this most of the time for Demo, every 2-3 Demo it won't be up and delay it so you would end up losing 1-2 dot ticks instead of 0-1 so the gain of using fracture at that point is 30 + 50 potency which lands one fracture at 270 potency for 80 TP, compared to True Strike at 190 at a cost of 50, or 3.8 Pot/TP were Fracture is 3.335 Pot/TP making it as efficient as DK/TS Pot/TP comparativel to the other dots which is, Demo(420/50=8.4) and ToD(270+50/80=4).

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Found the reddit post saying fracture is a dps loss: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...urvival_guide/

Guess it depends on SkS.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

Found the reddit post saying fracture is a dps loss: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...urvival_guide/

Guess it depends on SkS.

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The post only says fracture is a DPS loss in that specific rotation, in a normal rotation where you switch between DK/Boot TS/True fracture is a clear DPS increase, also that rotation works on a dummy but in a real situation mechanics will cause the buffs to drop off for longer.

Don't know the numbers myself but that High SS video looks pretty cool, he got to take advantage of using Forbidden Chakra on the Dummy because he didn't use any Fracture or ToD. It might actually be a decent build, I wouldn't mind seeing one at 240. Though I don't have the time to change my build now, I barely have time to raid.

They aren't even right about Fracture not being a potency gain under the premise that you catch the buffs on time, since they have some mad Demolish clipping in there without it. That is, Fracture contributes more than its own potency thanks to that.

First time posting here. Followed the ss build krindor was talking about on pg 158. I'm ilvl 239 with 240 lore wep. Just missing a7s pants with food I'm around 950 ss. It's alot of run and I'm gaining extra ws especially on a7s boss jumps. Haven't tried no tod or fracture. I'll try it this weekend when I have some free time.

It's very much a dummy rotation because if you have to stop attacking for even one second, you lose dps (The same as usual of course, but it's worse when you drop buffs as a result.)

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Originally Posted by Krindor

The post only says fracture is a DPS loss in that specific rotation, in a normal rotation where you switch between DK/Boot TS/True fracture is a clear DPS increase, also that rotation works on a dummy but in a real situation mechanics will cause the buffs to drop off for longer.

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I see, thanks for taking the time to explain. :)

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Originally Posted by FrostVecca

First time posting here. Followed the ss build krindor was talking about on pg 158. I'm ilvl 239 with 240 lore wep. Just missing a7s pants with food I'm around 950 ss. It's alot of run and I'm gaining extra ws especially on a7s boss jumps. Haven't tried no tod or fracture. I'll try it this weekend when I have some free time.

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Definitely intrested of seeing the results of that build, haven't tried it myself yet, could see both positive and negative things of it in A7S, especially TP issues are apparent, but if you got a NIN/AST it is probably more manageable.

Sadly my raids setup is drk war whm sch drg blm brd then me as mnk or nin. A7s isn't that bad I do 2nd purple jail. But my tp does come close towards the end of the fight.

I've been wondering. For high skill speed builds that use the (Coeurl) demo > PB > snap > snap > dk > ts > snap > ToD...... Opener could substitute that last snap for a true? I know it isn't a massive difference (only 10 potency and risk dropping GL3) but would that be worth it at all?

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Originally Posted by HoLoFoNo

I've been wondering. For high skill speed builds that use the (Coeurl) demo > PB > snap > snap > dk > ts > snap > ToD...... Opener could substitute that last snap for a true? I know it isn't a massive difference (only 10 potency and risk dropping GL3) but would that be worth it at all?

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It's possible but at 900 SkS you can have a max delay of around 0.34. So I wouldn't find it useful other than when hitting a dummy/boss with no movement during opener.

Are there any resources around for a monk-in-training (40s-ish)? Everything I always see relates to end game stuff. I imagine it's not super important to be min/maxing or anything until you get to those big runs, but I at least like to feel like I'm using my tools properly for now and not being a total slob.

I've gotten the impression that it's imperative to keep GL up as much as possible. One question I have is, for DoTs, should I be trying to apply/weave in early, to get them ticking, or am I better served by getting three stacks of GL as quickly as possible and applying DoT after (I'm kinda assuming with this that the DoTs will be ticking more damage if I'm applying them under GL)? Also presume Twin Snakes should be kept up as much as possible as well.

Other subject was AoE. Is monk just pretty weak on AoE til more end game-ish? All I've got so far is Arm of the Destroyer and Rock Breaker. Is there ever a situation where these take priority over other skills for their particular form? Also kinda relates to previous point of whether to use these as much as I can on big pulls, or work some DoTs around everything.

I'm a pretty sloppy monk, probably won't be a main for me. Making mistakes on position a lot, though I'm at least recognizing it (often a case of just being in the right position for the skill I should be using, but hitting the wrong button). Just kinda hoping to confirm that I'm thinking of things in the right way to not seem like a total waste of a DPS. >_>

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Are there any resources around for a monk-in-training (40s-ish)? Everything I always see relates to end game stuff. I imagine it's not super important to be min/maxing or anything until you get to those big runs, but I at least like to feel like I'm using my tools properly for now and not being a total slob.

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I feel most jobs kinda just plain stink before the 40s. I didn't really like my main until I hit 50!

As for monk, you have the right idea; most problems are solved with more punching. But it's difficult to consider it a complete package before you have Perfect Balance; suddenly having GL3 is the rule and not the exception, and the job gets more self-consistent.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

One question I have is, for DoTs, should I be trying to apply/weave in early, to get them ticking, or am I better served by getting three stacks of GL as quickly as possible and applying DoT after (I'm kinda assuming with this that the DoTs will be ticking more damage if I'm applying them under GL)? Also presume Twin Snakes should be kept up as much as possible as well.

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Demolish is so powerful that you are almost always served better by putting it on everything you can, unless it's a clear AoE situation, especially when building GL the slow way. ToD is worth it only under GL3 (because the bonus from GL is better than the few ticks, basically), Fracture may be debatable due to its shorter payoff and the short lifespan of trash mobs but that's talking pretty advanced MNK and difficult-to-judge hypotheticals anyway.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Other subject was AoE. Is monk just pretty weak on AoE til more end game-ish? All I've got so far is Arm of the Destroyer and Rock Breaker. Is there ever a situation where these take priority over other skills for their particular form? Also kinda relates to previous point of whether to use these as much as I can on big pulls, or work some DoTs around everything.

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MNK AoE is pretty weak until you get Elixir Field (level 56 job quest), then it's really good (not the best, but really good). You should still use Rockbreaker if you have spare TP, but it's merely okay until you have your Heavensward skills; I actually leveled NIN on my MNK main alt for dungeoneering back in ARR, it was that frustrating... though it's a little ironic now!

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

I'm a pretty sloppy monk, probably won't be a main for me. Making mistakes on position a lot, though I'm at least recognizing it (often a case of just being in the right position for the skill I should be using, but hitting the wrong button). Just kinda hoping to confirm that I'm thinking of things in the right way to not seem like a total waste of a DPS. >_>

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It can really seem that way at the beginning, but if you stick with it, the MNK rotation doesn't necessarily require much thinking. MNK is known for doing things that look (as one person put it) "irrational and dangerous" just to keep stacks, but the thought process behind this becomes fairly simple if you are truly in the groove.

Again, keep punching things. You may not match the best raiders, but uptime counts for so much, and with it, you'll do far better DPS than most people you see in Duty Finder.

Looking for advice to improve my play. I've an Ilvl of 226 with an 210 weapon (haven't gotten around to do any primals, returning player).
As it stands, I can't consistently beat the A7S dummy (within 0-1 %, most of the time) and I feel like I should be doing more deeps.
As an opener I use (Coeurl) -> Demo -> PB -> Snap (x2) -> b4b -> DK -> IR -> TS -> Howling -> Snap -> Elixir -> ToD -> Steel -> Boot -> ST -> True -> Demo. Need to use Purification, else I run out of TP. I use every CD the moment they're availabe and I strafe to get all auto attacks, just to get that out of the way. Using Fracture to avoid clipping Demo also makes virtually no difference.
Any advice for me?

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Originally Posted by Ritas

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Get a better weapon, that's about it. Your damage is at a good level with a 210 weapon.

Cool. Sounds like I've about got the right idea for things. My biggest flubs so far is just mixing up Snap Punch and Demolish positioning. Not that I actually forget, but I get in position for the skill I ought to be using, and my fingers decide to use the other. But, after a few extra dungeon runs, I can definitely feel myself getting into a sort of groove. I still feel a little lackluster with a lot of pulls, though, while I'm burning down a single target, feeling like I should be contributing more, but not really sure what more I can do. Needing to keep GL up kinda holds me back from getting all the DoTs ticking like I was doing on Bard at this stage. But it is pretty satisfying to take down big chunks of health once I'm doing things proper.

I've also been kinda enjoying keeping an eye out for good Mantra moments. Think I might still need to dial in the range, but it feels good to help out a little bit if I'm worried about the healer getting a little overwhelmed.

Couple of questions relating to my ilvl 233 Monk with 235 weapon.

Do I need to stay in rear position till demolish animation is finished or I can move to flank while its still active ? Same with dragon kick.

Is it OK to clip demolish/twinsnake/dragonkick effects or wait for them to fall off and re-apply ?

Finally, is my current dps of 1926 on AS8 dummy acceptable for my ilvl ?


Thanks.

The moment a positional weaponskill is activated (i.e. when the GCD starts counting down; if you are queueing like you should, this may be up to 300ms later) is when the positional is determined. You can move out of position as soon as the GCD is spinning. Note that most cases of a target appearing to turn is strictly aesthetic; with few exceptions--though Brawler seems to be a significant exception--mobs more or less turn instantly on the server side, only facing the other way for the duration of their special back-row-attacking animation. This is pretty hard to prove; I'm just saying this as someone who used to be required to get positionals on Melusine, whose rotation lined up with mine not at all.

Dragon Kick and Twin Snakes should be clipped. Demolish should be clipped slightly under normal circumstances. Please note that Demolish's animation is long and the DoT is only applied at the end of it, so clipping at "4" seconds is not as drastic as it may appear.

Sorry for my bad englisch first. I am ilvl 236 now and my static cleared a5s couple of weeks ago. But i can online do about 1300 dps, which seems really low. I am doing positionals right, almost no dot-clipping, i am using Tornado-Kick during boost. I have noch idea how to do more dps..

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Originally Posted by MiracleBob

Sorry for my bad englisch first. I am ilvl 236 now and my static cleared a5s couple of weeks ago. But i can online do about 1300 dps, which seems really low. I am doing positionals right, almost no dot-clipping, i am using Tornado-Kick during boost. I have noch idea how to do more dps..

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That's the average DPS in A5S, considering you also don't have a 240 weapon and I'm pretty sure most people in your group doesn't that DPS is enough. To get a higher damage parse would require using aoe on the pigs and then killing the boss right after and once the party DPS is high enough you can push the first boost for even more DPS. But taking into consideration you recently beat it getting a really high parse is going to take some time.

Also, it's quite hard for us to give feedback without any data to look at.

We are killing the adds with Caster-LB. Our SMN is doing about 1,5-1,6k dps, thats why I think ich should do more.

My IG Name ist Chillin Bob, if you want to take a look.

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Originally Posted by MiracleBob

We are killing the adds with Caster-LB. Our SMN is doing about 1,5-1,6k dps, thats why I think ich should do more.

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Without pushing boost and padding on the adds you're not going to surpass the summoner that well considering summoners have 90% uptime on damage as their dots deal a lot of damage and last for quite a while meaning that he deals damage even when you can't attack. Comparing your best run to mine, both with the same clear time. The most noteable thing I see is the lack of IR uses, mine had 7 vs your 4. Considering that IR is the strongest buff(Around 16%) other than GL3 it's missed damage. The second thing I notice is that you miss a lot of bootshine positionals, 92% vs 67%. You can take a look at it here: http://www.fflogs.com/reports/compar...ne&source=19,8 Do mind that my run was at i236 and i240 weapon so don't look at the damage but rather at hits and percentages.

Oh, I see. Well, it's hard for me sometimes to see, if I am standing at the back when the boss is small. Maybe I have to do some UI adjustments

Quick question. I have pretty high latency and whenever I use my Pot (after DK) I clip my GCD for maybe about a second. So basically I just stand there for 0.5-1 second doing nothing while I wait for Twin Snakes to hit.

Do you think it would be better for me to pop the pot just before the tank pulls/Shoulder Tackle. or just roll with the clipping? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Crocel

Quick question. I have pretty high latency and whenever I use my Pot (after DK) I clip my GCD for maybe about a second. So basically I just stand there for 0.5-1 second doing nothing while I wait for Twin Snakes to hit.

Do you think it would be better for me to pop the pot just before the tank pulls/Shoulder Tackle. or just roll with the clipping? Thanks.

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Roll with the clipping. Move the pot to after twin snakes though just so you're not missing any auto attacks buff'd by it.

Actually the more i think about it, the weirder it sounds. What are you doing for your opener? Popping a pot before the pull shouldn't really be an option

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Originally Posted by Claymore022

Roll with the clipping. Move the pot to after twin snakes though just so you're not missing any auto attacks buff'd by it.

Actually the more i think about it, the weirder it sounds. What are you doing for your opener? Popping a pot before the pull shouldn't really be an option

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Yeah thats what I thought. I'm doing:
Shoulder > Demo > PB > Snap > IR > Snap > B4B > DK > Pot > Twin > Elixir > Snap > Howling > ToD > Steel > Bootshine > Forbidden > ....

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Originally Posted by Crocel

Yeah thats what I thought. I'm doing:
Shoulder > Demo > PB > Snap > IR > Snap > B4B > DK > Pot > Twin > Elixir > Snap > Howling > ToD > Steel > Bootshine > Forbidden > ....

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So if the issue is missing the last snap under PB due to the pot delay then just move it down further in the opener. Other than that, the delay shouldn't cause any issues other than your auto attacks not being buffed by ts as early as they could be. I'd recommend shifting all of your off globals down until after the first dk that way pot comes after PB falls. And also switching your b4b and ir around so the crits from it benefit more. It also won't hurt to throw fracture in there for a higher pps opener but you'd have to move your off globals down 1 more gcd to make it work I believe

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Originally Posted by Claymore022

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Fracture is always worth it there, but if we're talking pps he needs to switch IR with BfB and delay all oGCDs until after at least DK is up, switch to demo third and switch ToD and Boot so ToD is affected by the pot. This is a higher damaging opener. Also note, Bootshine after PB is formless and is not a guaranteed crit.

I actually typo'd, I use B4B before IR. Thanks a lot for the tips, I can hit the last Snap but its tight.
I use Fracture after I reapply demolish. I will test those opener changes out on a dummy! :D

Yeah I noticed that, its kind of sad when it doesn't crit.