Difficult experience in Forked Tower – a reminder to respect public content

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Originally Posted by Neclord

It's a good question and sadly one I don't have an answer for. I am not in the head of the development team. The people that are suggesting that sniping organised runs is the obvious design intention are also not in the heads of the development team and cannot know that they're right on that front.

Field Operations is much more socially involved as far as content goes, so I'd speculate they assumed players would be social and collaborative when it comes to the content - which is why people have naturally congregated around forming discords and planning runs after meeting in game and spreading knowledge of these runs ingame through word of mouth. The devs clearly did not account for how anti-social some of the playerbase are. That was their biggest mistake.

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you seem to be trying to deny the actual reality of how you can enter forked tower right now

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Originally Posted by RuriStone

Fact is if you really were sociable you would be against what OP experienced as well. They were treated badly and rudely and the only people who would want to join in playing with players like that believe they literally have no other choice. It's sad.

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Counterpoint: op was politely asked not to join their group run and warned they wouldn't be raised ahead of time. Then took to the forums to complain that they followed through. If it were me i'd let them know I looked at the mechanics ahead of time and ask if they would be cool with me joining if I joined their call for callouts and coordination. If they're cool with it i'd join, if not i'd wait for the next one or find a group running it. Part of being sociable is respecting other people and having sympathy for them because of the insane entry requirements of the content. It may seem like standing up for the little guy is the right thing to do but at the same time, given the evidence presented through the forum post, they made no effort to be sociable. Nor should the behavior of prioritizing one persons experience over a group of 48 peoples experiences normalized. While its rude for one person to buster another person, its also rude to waste 48 other peoples time(including the potential person whose spot they potentially sniped) because they didn't feel like respecting anyone else on that pad. No they don't own the content. But no they don't have to leave a red herring in their group that could potentially waste an hour of prep work.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I wouldn't say I'm entirely "new" given I've been playing for 2 and a half years, I'm just very slow and methodical in doing the content I was unlocking as I went because I DIDN'T want to be a screw-up that had to be constantly carried. Unfortunately my level of skill just couldn't keep up as Stormblood went along, and the Ivalice raids ended up being a breaking point and resulted in some of the worst experiences I've had with other players.

Contrary to popular belief, some people WILL kick you for wasting their time on cutscenes or dying too much even in "normal" content. Mind you, when I first unlocked and attempted the Ivalice raids, it was during the last mogtome event where it was included, so I guess there were people trying to farm it efficiently and me being the ONLY person watching the cutscenes for the first time and fighting the bosses partially blind (because I didn't want to be spoiled TOO much) and dying repeatedly on mechanics really chaffed some people, so it took more than one attempt to get through the whole series because I was getting booted here and there, and even when I wasn't, I still had people being pretty jerkish about my failures while sometimes implying it was because I was from Dynamis, and thus I was either an idiot or a griefer in their eyes. All this and I had been really looking forward to said raid series because FF12 and FFTactics are some of my favorite games in the series, (I even plan to get the War of the Lions PC remaster), and was hoping to farm all the goodies out of those raids including all the glam. Eh... well, that's not happening anymore.

That said, I never intended to do hardcore content because I know I wouldn't be good at it, so there's no point in wasting anyone's time, and least of all with people who probably don't want my casual self in there screwing up their umpteenth reclear. It's simply not worth the effort, and I've just accepted its content I'll never get to do unless it can be unsynced somehow (hence why my Extreme and Savage Coils clears are of no significance).

Though even if I somehow magically "got gud" I still wouldn't do the content legit because I wouldn't enjoy it anyway (I play games to have fun, not be frustrated), and I wouldn't care much for playing with people who seemingly hated me 5 seconds ago when they thought I was just another filthy casual.

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This is sad to read.
It's also against tos to kick you for watching a cs or dying too much:
・Unjustified usage of Vote Dismiss
Refers to the act of dismissing a player in a way that is unjustified under the intended use of Vote Dismiss.

report people like this

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Originally Posted by RuriStone

Fact is if you really were sociable you would be against what OP experienced as well. They were treated badly and rudely and the only people who would want to join in playing with players like that believe they literally have no other choice. It's sad.

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But what did the OP experience? They claimed they were insulted but posted a screenshot of 2 people discouraging them from joining with no direct insult in sight. OP claimed they were intentionally tankbustered, but a person from that run said that OP was at the wall, which is where the tankbuster is normally aimed.

So who's right? Why does it matter? The way the content is designed is still terrible.

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Originally Posted by RuriStone

you seem to be trying to deny the actual reality of how you can enter forked tower right now

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To be human is to be beyond base impulses. Yes, you can snipe runs and the game will not punish you for doing it. A certain type of person wouldn't do that, and a certain type of person would. Regardless of your opinions on the design decisions, there is courteous, sociable behaviour, and there is discourteous, selfish, anti-social behaviour.

PF menus and player written descriptions prevent most people from joining content they're not ready for and disrupting other player's experiences because there are more significant social consequences - getting repeatedly blacklisted for this behaviour means you will run out of PFs to join. There are no direct social ingame consequences for sniping runs, and so people who lack empathy and consideration for communities that are putting efforts into preparing and organising serious attempts at this content have no deterrent to cease the behaviour. Worse still, they are actively cheered on by people in this thread.

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Originally Posted by YovelaLindswood

Counterpoint: op was politely asked not to join their group run and warned they wouldn't be raised ahead of time. Then took to the forums to complain that they followed through. If it were me i'd let them know I looked at the mechanics ahead of time and ask if they would be cool with me joining if I joined their call for callouts and coordination. If they're cool with it i'd join, if not i'd wait for the next one or find a group running it. Part of being sociable is respecting other people and having sympathy for them because of the insane entry requirements of the content. It may seem like standing up for the little guy is the right thing to do but at the same time, given the evidence presented through the forum post, they made no effort to be sociable. Nor should the behavior of prioritizing one persons experience over a group of 48 peoples experiences normalized. While its rude for one person to buster another person, its also rude to waste 48 other peoples time(including the potential person whose spot they potentially sniped) because they didn't feel like respecting anyone else on that pad. No they don't own the content. But no they don't have to leave a red herring in their group that could potentially waste an hour of prep work.

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What if they wanted to try it blind? you don't HAVE to play the game reading guides, watching vids etc that's not a requirement. If you aren't even aware of what the content involves because you are new to it how is this fair? Like I said to Nec earlier courtesy is given to you guys when you're new but you can't repay the favour to other newbies? how is that fair, courteous or sociable? It's not.

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Originally Posted by YovelaLindswood

op was politely asked not to join their group run

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You might be projecting your own reference frame on others a bit to much. "Please don't snipe" isn't overly descriptive for casual players who has no idea what is going on with the content. They see something pop up and might want to have a look what is going on. That casual player might just think: "I am not sniping anything... whatever that means. I'm just having a look what this thing is about. By all means go ahead, I wont bother you." If you want to organize group runs in the current environment and mechanics. It's your own responsibility to clearly communicate, at the very least.

And even when communicated clearly, it's against the TOS for tanks to intentionally kill other players with TB's. "I told them not to queue up" is not a valid defense.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

You might be projecting your own reference frame on others a bit to much. "Please don't snipe" isn't overly descriptive for casual players who has no idea what is going on with the content. They see something pop up and might want to have a look what is going on. That casual player they might just think: "I am not sniping anything... whatever that means. I'm just having a look what this thing is about. By all means go ahead, I wont bother you." If you want to organize group runs in the current environment and mechanics. It's your own responsibility to clearly communicate, at the very least.

And even when communicated clearly, it's against the TOS for tanks to intentionally kill other players with TB's. "I told them not to queue up" is not a valid defense.

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They also clearly explained that the content is too difficult for randoms and that they wouldn’t be able to progress

Not to mention that the tankbuster in question is a cleave designed to be faced in a particular direction, OP fully acknowledges they didn’t really know the fight beforehand and the person from the raid said that they stood where they shouldn’t

Am I allowed to report a tank for standing behind them during a cleave tankbuster

You are right that the “we ask you to please not snipe” is very much a “only people who actually do discord runs are going to understand exactly what you mean” but nor were they intentionally impolite

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Originally Posted by Aravell

But what did the OP experience? They claimed they were insulted but posted a screenshot of 2 people discouraging them from joining with no direct insult in sight. OP claimed they were intentionally tankbustered, but a person from that run said that OP was at the wall, which is where the tankbuster is normally aimed.

So who's right? Why does it matter? The way the content is designed is still terrible.

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Well yeah we can only talk about what we see in the ss and what op says and what others say in response which is what I was responding to really the bad takes some people have. I think the content has obviously caused some issues but it's alright, I think the people make it good or not. I just also expected to just hop into the content and give it a go like I did with Eureka and Bozja and that worked out fine at the time for me, had no clue what I was doing and yeah I died a bit obviously lol and no-one minded and we cleared fine. I was never asked to leave though.

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Originally Posted by RuriStone

What if they wanted to try it blind? you don't HAVE to play the game reading guides, watching vids etc that's not a requirement. If you aren't even aware of what the content involves because you are new to it how is this fair? Like I said to Nec earlier courtesy is given to you guys when you're new but you can't repay the favour to other newbies? how is that fair, courteous or sociable? It's not.

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Wrong, if 47 People agree on watching a Guide but you dont like it, its your fault and you have to stay away, its the same with Savage, if i write in my PF Description "watch a guide not blind" and people joining which wanna do the content blind, they are griefing my experience and time, if a majority agrees on something you have to follow it too, if you dont like it dont join