Unfortunately, a lot of people believe they deserve a clear or aren't willing to put forth the effort to improve. When you parse, you'll notice very quickly just how lazy people can get even in Savage content. Ironically, it's usually those players who are the first to complain about numbers, not the ones using ACT the way it ought to be used; for self improvement. I've had a handful of DPS whine about group DPS or poke the healers only too look and see they died five times or pulled half as much as someone else playing their job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurawrzz
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08-14-2017, 12:18 PMBourne_Endeavor
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08-14-2017, 01:01 PMLildragora
The last thing most gamers wants after a day at work is to work for their entertainment, hence the term casual. However for people who like to compete/endlessly improve or play at high end levels the work is the entertainment.
A parser is simply a tool to help them get their work in, in a meaningful way with feedback. Quite simply it is a tool to gauge ones progress by finding ways to fit more in while shaving off the seconds in between. People will literally complain and claim they are being bullied even with polite and constructive criticism and a tool doesn't change that. Nor will people cease to be jerks to one another and a tool doesn't change that. Thats why we have reporting and a set of people that go through reports and determine if something was negative or just salt.
Second point i'd like to bring up, trash talking can be a constructive form of competition or motivation. This really only applies though if you do it to someone of similar skill level, like a DRG gloating about higher DPS than the other DRG which can build a competitive rivalry in a sense depending on how its done. To be clear though there is beneficial and destructive trash talking. Something that pushes people away being negative and something that builds rivalry or competition is beneficial. So even something like trash talking is not so black and white. Just like a parser; the tool isn't bad by itself and the entire subject isn't as black and white as most people seem to think.
TL/DR: SE does not justify their enrage timers they are purely there to say you didn't do the fight right in some way, shape or form without offering anything constructive to back up the lack of doing something right and leaves it to players to assume. -
08-14-2017, 01:28 PMuvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu
Only problem is having people work together. Fights have time limit. Whether you want to work a rotation with your party or not getting enrage, a live run is no place for anything else other than for sorting out mechanics.
Great if you have a static to repeat as many you want. Good news is the game isn't made for statics where content is only accessible to few.
Give me a good example where leaderboard has any benefit on the party when you're pugging on that single run. Only effect is for individual person.
Lazy/Cluelessness simply means they're not ready and something the party should have understanding for. Stop being selfish at each other.
A non lazy person will pick up their slack no matter what the numbers show.
TLDR, Only 2 types of party benefit from leaderboard. Statics and 1-wipe disband party.
I'm not playing a game where it's content locked nor its poisoned up to that point. -
08-14-2017, 02:07 PMZeonsiltYou just said it yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu
Why one person must be sweating with 5K dps perfomance, while another person is playing with one hand, spammin' 1111 with 2K DPS and eating Doritos with another? They don't have any obligations to do so.
What people trying to say is that Savage content raiding is not a place for "lazy attitude" or general zero knowledge about your class and rotation. Prepare your gear, know your rotation, at least kill O4S dummy (the other ones are a joke), grab your food and pots, watch the video guide or text one and go into Savage.
People already joining a "Kill party", "Know entire fight" and fail at the first 3 simple mechanics, wiping your raid group(and repeat this a few times right after), meaning they have zero knowledge about encounter and lied when they joined, and this problem is not even related to parsers. It's a problem with a community.
p.s. For learning the fight there's always a lof of "Practice" parties, there's no "real" DPS checks there and people there practice rotations/look@mechanics and such. -
08-14-2017, 02:22 PMuvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemuOh I agree. When they're not ready then they're not ready. I don't agree however forcing party readyness on another player when they can have other problems playing their game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeonsilt
What -was- needed really separation between learning and randoms. They already done that with Raid Finder. But a leaderboard practically does nothing. -
08-14-2017, 02:28 PMYeol
Dev team already stated that the player base is divided in terms of skills. The skill gap is huge. People were either doing good or extremely bad. With SB they are hopping to lift the lower players up by simplifying rotations.
SSS dummies will tell you that you have enough dps to down content. This does not mean that your rotaion is good or perfect.
But at least you will have a rough idea about your rotation.
If you are doing well on dummy and downing it with 10s+ left.
Next step will be trying to keep up your rotaion mid fight. Learn how to recover from mistakes.
Dps should improve as you learn the fight. Learn when to use or save CDs. Dummy does not teach you this.
Parse is a useful tool in the good hands.
Not everyone using it will benefit from it. So don't generalize that having parse will make better players.
I am not against having a parse, but so many players are already doing good dps without it.
These are the players that care to improve with or without a parse. Wish there were more people like them. -
08-14-2017, 03:43 PMAziraSyuren
It seems like anti-parsers are generally so afraid of toxicity that they act toxic themselves.
:thinking:
I'm overwhelmingly for an in-game parser. DPS need to be held accountable for being terrible as much as bad healers and tanks do, if not more. -
08-14-2017, 04:01 PMSaitoHikariThis is actually the main reason why I adopted the use of a parser too. It's to smack down the toxic fools who have no right to be taking a dump on the entire group when it's clear that they're the ones holding everyone back in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
I can count with one hand the situations where I've run into actual parsing elitists trashing a run during the past two years I've played this game (and usually, I'm actually beating such people anyway. As a BARD. But of course they're going to try to keep me out of it in the hopes that I don't knock down their hastily-built house of cards and call them out for that myself). But I can count with 10 the amount of really, really bad DPS pretending to be 'pro' only for my data to show that they have no right to be shaming anyone else in the group.
Beyond that, I only pay attention to improving my own numbers. Actually monitoring how everyone else is doing is secondary to me outside of an Alliance or Savage raid where the DPS actually does matter, but 95% of wipes is due to failing mechanics in the first place, so it's freaking pointless to nitpick over the entire group's numbers there when failing mechanics naturally lowers everyone's numbers regardless. One might say that I'm contradicting myself with this argument, but parsing is still a valuable tool for the sake of having data to monitor your own progress. Before I began parsing a year ago, I used to think I was one of the best Bards in the world. I got humbled REAL quick after I learned how to use a parser, and have since been working on optimizing my damage and support at the same time to the point where I can actually back that up now. -
08-14-2017, 04:10 PMKarstenSNot really. ACT an fflogs were already common during the first tier of binding Coil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurawrzz
This is how long ago? 4 years? -
08-14-2017, 04:59 PMZeonsiltThat's a good/valid reason to run a parser. I wish there's more people like you out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaitoHikari
Yeah, should be around Coil or little earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarstenS
Which means people deal with "parse" users since forever.