The Monk Temple

during the opening phase of t5, i've been using my first three rotations to spread a demolish onto each of the ads while i build up my GL stacks. my rationale is: why use a 180 potency attack on one target when i can use a 310 potency dot on another (so long as i'm not clipping them). i.e. BS-TW-Dm > DK-TW (switch to mk2) Dm (switch back to mk1) > BS-TS (switch to mk3) Dm (switch back to mk1).

is this the most efficient way to make use of my combo finishers? single targeting one the whole time seem like such a waste

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Originally Posted by TheHomieData

during the opening phase of t5, i've been using my first three rotations to spread a demolish onto each of the ads while i build up my GL stacks. my rationale is: why use a 180 potency attack on one target when i can use a 310 potency dot on another (so long as i'm not clipping them). i.e. BS-TW-Dm > DK-TW (switch to mk2) Dm (switch back to mk1) > BS-TS (switch to mk3) Dm (switch back to mk1).

is this the most efficient way to make use of my combo finishers? single targeting one the whole time seem like such a waste

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I wouldn't really worry about the first phase at all. It's kind of just filler.

@TheHomieData

It really depends in how the scourges are positioned. Sure, multi dotting in general is a nice way to increase dps, but you also have to consider any possible down time while switching targets as well as auto attacks that won't go off.

Furthermore, the scourges themselves aren't really annoying and don't take too long to kill, but killing them one at a time faster than as a group means less liquid hells, which can get annoying.

Ultimately, it doesn't really make much of a difference you'll find.

And then there's groups that wipe at 1% from Twin's enrage.

Necessary DPS is necessary.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

And then there's groups that wipe at 1% from Twin's enrage.

Necessary DPS is necessary.

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What I mean to suggest is if the positioning of the Scourges aren't positioned nicely and clumped up, then it's questionable whether there is actually a dps increase. Couple with bad Liquid Hell RNG, it can often times be more DPS to just stick to one at a time.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

@TheHomieData

It really depends in how the scourges are positioned. Sure, multi dotting in general is a nice way to increase dps, but you also have to consider any possible down time while switching targets as well as auto attacks that won't go off.

Furthermore, the scourges themselves aren't really annoying and don't take too long to kill, but killing them one at a time faster than as a group means less liquid hells, which can get annoying..

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thank you!

okay, so i'm not just going crazy. for the longest time i thought i was wasting DPS efficiency by not spreading dots around.

would spreading dots be a viable way to take down t4, as well?
edit - i feel like i should clarify this:
specifically
phase 2 - because the soldier is right by me (for both tanks)
phase 4 - spreading it on the rooks or maybe just the whole mob until i can tell they won't last longer than 6 ticks
phase 5/6 - just because i'm almost never attacking an isolated target (save for maybe when my group tells me to go and burn one of the dreads)

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Originally Posted by TheHomieData

thank you!

okay, so i'm not just going crazy. for the longest time i thought i was wasting DPS efficiency by not spreading dots around.

would spreading dots be a viable way to take down t4, as well?

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Where applicable, yeah. Personally I don't find myself multi-dotting often or at all in T4 as I typically roll in there with 2 BLMs. It's only effectively an increase if the DoT ticks down most of the way on the targets, but 2 BLMs using an optimal Flare rotation pretty much tosses that out the window for any pack of bugs lol.

If I multi-dot in T4, it's on the first wave of knights/soldiers. Ultimately it depends on the group strategy. If things don't die too fast, and it's not particularly important for things to die one by one to reduce the load on the tank, then by all means Demolish everything.

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Originally Posted by Mishaela

25+ T1 clears (21 on main, around 5 or so more on an alt) and still have never seen monk pants, ever. At this point they are approaching Unicorn status for my group, along with tank boots.

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I've done a ton of T1-T4 clears also, never seen the Monk pants. While they aren't BiS as the Melee pants have DET, I'd still like them for when the vanity stuff comes out.

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Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

I've done a ton of T1-T4 clears also, never seen the Monk pants. While they aren't BiS as the Melee pants have DET, I'd still like them for when the vanity stuff comes out.

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The MNK pants happen to be my first ever Allagan drop from my first ever run into Coil. I've been regularly clearing coil ever since, consistently and every week. I haven't seen those pants drop a second time lol.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

The MNK pants happen to be my first ever Allagan drop from my first ever run into Coil. I've been regularly clearing coil ever since, consistently and every week. I haven't seen those pants drop a second time lol.

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Hahah, I have the exact same experience.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Hahah, I have the exact same experience.

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lolol right there with you two

If it can make you feel any better, never saw allagan gloves of healing drop AT ALL.

Sad scholar is sad :(

Still waiting on ring of striking to drop :( got the the Weapon off twinTania tho.

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Originally Posted by raikage

Still waiting on ring of striking to drop :( got the the Weapon off twinTania tho.

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Yup! Just the ring and the cuirass and I'm BiS...





... until 2.2 drops.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Here's my list for 458 acc:

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Why only 458? I always thought the min acc was 471.

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Originally Posted by Size

Why only 458? I always thought the min acc was 471.

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Well, that's 468 with deviled eggs.

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Originally Posted by Size

Why only 458? I always thought the min acc was 471.

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Because that's the amount of accuracy you need to hit "100%" from the flank and rear.

You might have a few misses from attacking frontally on accident or when the tank is playing spin the dragon or whatever, but you don't need more than 458 as a melee dps or as BRD.

Well after months of doing Coils I finally got my first armor drop, Allagan Gloves of Striking, also got the ring of maiming, already had the ring of striking and the earrings of maiming, have not seen those pants to save my life, and I'm hoping I get my visor this week. Unfortunately I don't have a static to try turn 5 so no weapon for me yet.

FC has cleared T5 about 13 times and have seen the Monk Chest 0 times and the Monk Fists once (which was one out of about two clears I missed) :( WTB less DRG spears and more fists!

So an update on my rotation as a the first one was bad.

Start

1st Bootshine > True Strike > Snap Punch
2nd Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Demolish
3rd Perfect Balance > Snap Punch > True Strike > True Strike > Demolish (I can only do 4 attacks). If I don't have PB this time I go Bootshine > True Strike > Snap Punch
4th Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Snap Punch > ToD
5th Bootshine > True Strike > Snap Punch (I Know you lose your Demolish around this time)
6th Bootshine True Strike > Snap Punch (I wanted to pour the max DPS i can at this time)
7th Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Demolish > ToD
then Repeat


Please tell me if I have to change something and rate it if you will :)
Oh! Btw the reason i don't begin with PB is that i want the debuff of DK and buff of Twin Snakes to be there although im throwing away the Demolish DOT at the 2nd

I'm always opening with perfect balance in my case.
PF >demolish>blood for blood>snap punch>internal release>snap punch>howling fist>twin snakes>steelpeak>dragon kick (PF end)>touch of death>bootshine>true strike>demolish.
Then reset your dots ,buff and debuffs when needed ofc.Allow me to hit hard directly at the start of the fight and use this long CD of perfect balance to allow him to be available if needed later.

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Originally Posted by T1M0N

I'm always opening with perfect balance in my case.
PF >demolish>blood for blood>snap punch>internal release>snap punch>howling fist>twin snakes>steelpeak>dragon kick (PF end)>touch of death>bootshine>true strike>demolish.
Then reset your dots ,buff and debuffs when needed ofc.Allow me to hit hard directly at the start of the fight and use this long CD of perfect balance to allow him to be available if needed later.

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Interesting :). Nice tip :D I forgot to add other skills on that rotation that i wrote xD

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Originally Posted by Mishaela

25+ T1 clears (21 on main, around 5 or so more on an alt) and still have never seen monk pants, ever. At this point they are approaching Unicorn status for my group, along with tank boots.

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I got the pants before my monk was even 50 when I was a tank because nobody else in the PUG had a monk.. granted that's the only allagan piece I have on my monk..

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Originally Posted by buckler173

Btw the reason i don't begin with PB is that i want the debuff of DK and buff of Twin Snakes to be there although im throwing away the Demolish DOT at the 2nd

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The buff and debuff still apply while you're in PB, my personal opener is:

Touch of Death PB-Demo-Snap Punch x2-Twin Snakes-Dragon Kick (PB ends)
DK<B4B> TS <IR> SP
Bootshine<HF>True Strike<Steel Peak> Demo

From there on out is just alternate combos, use OGCD as they become available and refresh Dots as needed.

when I use PB, typically I can only get 4 moves in before it ends, every now and then, I've noticed on turn 4 at the start I can get 5 using rockbreakerx2, TwS, rockbreakerx2.. I know it's not a great start, but only time I use it that way is for the spiders. but either way, that's not my point..

after I get my GL3 stacks in any situation, ill start in applying DOTs by
DK>TwS>ToD>Dem.
Boot>TS>SP.
then back to
DK>TwS>Dem.
Boot>TS>SP.
DK>TwS>ToD>Dem.. repeat etc..

I'm noticing with my rotation I'm usually clipping Dem & ToD anywhere from 1-3 seconds everytime. I guess my question is it better to completely let them run their course and fall off until I can get it back up next chance I get, or keep clipping them to have 100% uptime? I know I can apply ToD basically anywhere in rotation without compromising stance change, so I can work on that itself. so I guess its more related to Dem clipping vs 100% uptime (unless of course mob HP is low enough to use SP instead).. also any suggestions on my rotation itself is welcome.

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Originally Posted by buckler173

So an update on my rotation as a the first one was bad.

Start

1st Bootshine > True Strike > Snap Punch
2nd Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Demolish
3rd Perfect Balance > Snap Punch > True Strike > True Strike > Demolish (I can only do 4 attacks). If I don't have PB this time I go Bootshine > True Strike > Snap Punch
4th Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Snap Punch > ToD
5th Bootshine > True Strike > Snap Punch (I Know you lose your Demolish around this time)
6th Bootshine True Strike > Snap Punch (I wanted to pour the max DPS i can at this time)
7th Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Demolish > ToD
then Repeat


Please tell me if I have to change something and rate it if you will :)
Oh! Btw the reason i don't begin with PB is that i want the debuff of DK and buff of Twin Snakes to be there although im throwing away the Demolish DOT at the 2nd

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It's easy to fall for the thought of wanting Dragon Kick's debuff or Twin Snakes up before PB, but fact of the matter is a single stack of Greased Lightning is worth more than DK or TS, and therefore getting to GL3 as soon as possible nets the highest increase in DPS.

After many trials, I've arrived at the opener I posted some pages back in this thread as the optimal case. Give it a shot.

EDIT: Here it is:

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Demo > BfB > Snap > IR > Snap > Steel > DK > Howl > Snap > DK > Twin > ToD > Demo > Boot* > True > Snap > DK > Twin > Snap > etc...

*Alternatively, one can replace this Boot with a DK, and make it so DK never drops. Should the DK here crit, it would be no different from a Bootshine anyway. On the other hand, if it does not crit, the DPS loss from it is theoretically greater than the DPS loss from having blunt resist down for 2 skills.

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Also, you can always get 5 skills in on PB. I do it with almost no Skill Speed gained from gear. If you're not managing to do it, then you're not timing your skills or buffs, and in turn delaying your GCDs.

Why are folk starting with Demo on PB? I thought the greased lightning DMG increase applies to DoTs, so getting GLx3 (or even 2) would net a more potent Demolish over it's duration? I can understand using ToD at the start because of the long debuff duration you can settle into your rotation and just allow the lesser dmg to tick away. Also Demolish is a long ass animation and could lock you out of your follow up skills if you use it first. Using it with 1 second left on PB allows the skill to go off and even though PB falls off during the animation lock it still applies the Dot (and a heavier DoT due to GL stacks).

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Originally Posted by Buckles

Why are folk starting with Demo on PB? I thought the greased lightning DMG increase applies to DoTs, so getting GLx3 (or even 2) would net a more potent Demolish over it's duration? I can understand using ToD at the start because of the long debuff duration you can settle into your rotation and just allow the lesser dmg to tick away. Also Demolish is a long ass animation and could lock you out of your follow up skills if you use it first. Using it with 1 second left on PB allows the skill to go off and even though PB falls off during the animation lock it still applies the Dot (and a heavier DoT due to GL stacks).

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Why are folk putting off MNK's most potent skill just to get it buffed?

It's simple really. You have 2 real choices for a single target skill that will give you a GL stack: SP and Demo. Any time Demo is not already on the target, and the target is expected to live for longer than 15 seconds or so, Demo is the better choice. More power for your GCD. Plain and simple.

Furthermore, if you follow the above opener I posted you will actually have GL3, DK, TwinS, BfB, and IR all up for both ToD and the 2nd application of Demo - which will just be falling off when you get to it.

Also, the whole thing about animation is nonsense. Animation locks last like 1-1.5 second, and anything longer is clipped by any following skills. The Demolish DoT is applied at the end of the animation, but the skill is registered as going through almost as soon as you begin the animation.

Doing Demo > Snap > Snap > DK > Snap as above with an offGCD buff/skill used between each of those does not delay me at all or inhibit my ability to land 5 skills under PB even with a base GCD of 2.46 or so due to not stacking much Skill Speed at all.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Any time Demo is not already on the target, and the target is expected to live for longer than 15 seconds or so, Demo is the better choice. More power for your GCD. Plain and simple.

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Twelve seconds, absolute maximum, and that's assuming you don't get the attack from behind. Nine seconds is the maximum if you're properly executing the attack from behind, and that's also assuming that you apply right after the global tick so that it takes a full 3 seconds for the first tick. More realistically, somewhere between 6 and 9 seconds is the time it takes for Demo to beat Snap.

Oddly, some people seem to think this means you should replace all your Snap punches with Demo, though. That's a horrible idea, and they should be ashamed. >_>

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Twelve seconds, absolute maximum, and that's assuming you don't get the attack from behind. Nine seconds is the maximum if you're properly executing the attack from behind, and that's also assuming that you apply right after the global tick so that it takes a full 3 seconds for the first tick. More realistically, somewhere between 6 and 9 seconds is the time it takes for Demo to beat Snap.

Oddly, some people seem to think this means you should replace all your Snap punches with Demo, though. That's a horrible idea, and they should be ashamed. >_>

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Yup. Thanks for posting the specifics.

Regarding people intentionally clipping Demo that soon - yes, yes they should be very much ashamed.

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Originally Posted by kaox_reaper

The buff and debuff still apply while you're in PB, my personal opener is:

Touch of Death PB-Demo-Snap Punch x2-Twin Snakes-Dragon Kick (PB ends)
DK<B4B> TS <IR> SP
Bootshine<HF>True Strike<Steel Peak> Demo

From there on out is just alternate combos, use OGCD as they become available and refresh Dots as needed.

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I know you still get everything when you use PB. I wonder isn't it better if you put the ToD on GL3? I saw this video that Twin Snakes affects the ToD or something XD

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Originally Posted by TurboSol

I'm noticing with my rotation I'm usually clipping Dem & ToD anywhere from 1-3 seconds everytime. I guess my question is it better to completely let them run their course and fall off until I can get it back up next chance I get, or keep clipping them to have 100% uptime? I know I can apply ToD basically anywhere in rotation without compromising stance change, so I can work on that itself. so I guess its more related to Dem clipping vs 100% uptime (unless of course mob HP is low enough to use SP instead).. also any suggestions on my rotation itself is welcome.

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For me I let ToD ran out then replenish them quick. As for demolish I don't except, on the 5th and 6th turn of my rotation although most of my buffs and debuffs are still there, that's why when i come to the 7th turn I replenish them.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

It's easy to fall for the thought of wanting Dragon Kick's debuff or Twin Snakes up before PB, but fact of the matter is a single stack of Greased Lightning is worth more than DK or TS, and therefore getting to GL3 as soon as possible nets the highest increase in DPS.

After many trials, I've arrived at the opener I posted some pages back in this thread as the optimal case. Give it a shot.

EDIT: Here it is:



Also, you can always get 5 skills in on PB. I do it with almost no Skill Speed gained from gear. If you're not managing to do it, then you're not timing your skills or buffs, and in turn delaying your GCDs.

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Oh nice! Im gonna try it later :) Yep I noticed yesterday I can do 5 or 6 (With food) but most of the time when i press the button for it to use the skill my character freezes.

Here's mine: B4B, Internal, PB - SP - SP - TwS - SP - DK (pb ends) - ToD - Steel Peak - BS - Howling - TS - Dem.

Guys... Theres only one true Start rota with MNK:
PB-SP(Dem*)-SP-SP-DK-TwS-Bfb-BS-IR-TS-Pot-Dem-HF-FR-StP-ToD

And then Dragon kick again

Edit: At least in a Patchwork fight;
*Dem can do more dmg even with dot clipping but sometimes I like SP more

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Originally Posted by Misake

Here's mine: B4B, Internal, PB - SP - SP - TwS - SP - DK (pb ends) - ToD - Steel Peak - BS - Howling - TS - Dem.

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This screams DPS loss, you should only ever buff yourself inbetween your GCD attacks and by the time you put your Demolish up you could've applied it the second time if you do so at the very beginning of the fight, even without your GL3 it still deals 310 potency damage which is the highest damage skill we have.

If you open with PB you should Demo > BfB > Snap > IR > Snap > Steel Peak > Dragonkick or Twin > Howling Fists > Dragonkick or Twin to apply your buff and debuff before PB wears off.

I finally got my monk to 50 two nights ago - I had originally vowed to never play it, but last year I happened to get the Allagan Visor as a random drop and it had been lying there in my retainer's pocket for months, whispering sweet sweet dps for such a long time... and boy am I having fun! Here I thought dodging on Titan was silly easy as bard, but it's just as easy as melee - and I love running away from a boss and then Shoulder Tackling right back when the AoE animations are still playing.

I've been following this thread on opening/rotation tips, I'll have to try them all out on a dummy tonight. I'm a beast at dodging mechanics but I still mess up a lot of the rotations and keeping all buffs and dots up properly. I won't be able to Coil as Monk but I definitely want to do a good job with the class outside the raid. Only problem I have is I haven't really played together with high-end Monks (team mates tend to be the no-dots, flank-onry type) so just beating them isn't much of an achievement - I need to aim higher!

Quick question with positional moves, is position calculated the moment you press the attack, or is it something like mid/end of animation?
If I'm behind and hit 1 for bootshine, if I immediately strafe around to the side, way before the animation finishes, its still back?
Same as how Dragon kick animation is longer, if I tap that from flank and immediately come around, thats still good?
I also dislike the delay on the system really show positions. I can steal peak, go behind, bootshine, and not get a critical.

Your position (and buffs and debuffs and basically everything) is calculated when you begin the attack. Note: you can press the button before the GCD is available, so you can press the button before the attack begins. But stuff is calculated when the attack begins.

After the attack starts you can do whatever. Run into a conflag. Die. Turn around. Circle through the tank. Your side/rear attack will still get the side/rear bonuses.

[QUOTE=Atreides;1867173]This screams DPS loss, you should only ever buff yourself inbetween your GCD attacks and by the time you put your Demolish up you could've applied it the second time if you do so at the very beginning of the fight, even without your GL3 it still deals 310 potency damage which is the highest damage skill we have.

If you open with PB you should Demo > BfB > Snap > IR > Snap > Steel Peak > Dragonkick or Twin > Howling Fists > Dragonkick or Twin to apply your buff and debuff before PB wears off.[/QUOTE

How is this a dps increase? U got so much going on during PB phase, u will b running out of time.

I start with b4b/IR PB spx2 tws DK DM > tod dk twn sp > bs trs DM > DK tws sp