[Feedback] Wuk Lamat's English Voice

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aword3213

I read papers after papers thoroughly trying to better understand transgenderism, so I can better relate the trouble my sister has been suffering. I had been actively participating Pride events in support of love and acceptance. I listened to others that oppose LGBTQ movement and find their concerns not without merit. I started questioning the source of information within my social circles and I found myself moving away from LGBTQ movements as they evolve. I have a lot of details to offer but this is not the time and space.

---

I believe you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven2014

The word you're looking for here is not science, but sociology.

---

Sociology is a science. Simply because the results it provides do not please you or because it does not adhere to the mental picture you have of "science," does not give you the right to call it a pseudo-science.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven2014

Snip.

---

I really, really don't want to get tangled in this discussion... but I have an academic background (physics and computer science), and it's relatively well-known that social science fields have a slew of issues with the crushing majority of their studies (failure to reproduce, p-hacking, data shopping, data manipulation, biased datasets and/or methodology, etc). This is so egregious it actually undermines the whole field, and if you run statistical analysis on it, you see the results often deviate from expected distributions (mostly normal ones) or that opposing, contradictory effects are shown to be statistically significant across different studies (often very dubious). Worse, social fields have an immense amount of "publishing bias"- like, even if you have a great study with great population sampling and no errors that shows a powerful statistical effect implying "men are substantially better at maths than women" or "white people are better at performing surgeries than black people", this would never get published in today's climate, no matter how strong the association would be. To be perfectly clear, I don't believe either of these things; in fact, I firmly believe the opposite and that these factors are mostly irrelevant for the performance of either of those fields, it was an hypothetical thought experiment to illustrate the publishing bias issue.
Tied to this, it's also the fact many social problems are ultimately a matter of morality- the scientific method can draw models from observation, but that's all it does. It's predictive and descriptive- it's not meant to answer a moral problem and, honestly, can't really do it.
I'm just sharing this in some degree of agreement with you.

But the bottom line is, I'd be hesitant to trust the so-called "science" on most social issues. For one, regardless of whichever side the conclusion leans on, the study is probably full of holes. And, furthermore, the scientific method is ill-equipped to offer any definite answer on the issue to begin with.
Just a little passing comment on this side of the discussion.

Doesn't really matter, because I believe in meritocracy, so the VA's gender identity, or sex, or ethnicity, or whatever is irrelevant. The performance was not of the quality I've come to expect in XIV, be it the delivery and range, the accent, the inconsistencies. It's not just Wuk's voice, either, but hers is definitely the worst of the bunch. At some points, I don't even know which emotion she's trying to evoke/project. All I'm left with is bewilderment and confusion.

It started with "reality" and "basic biology," it then became "be critical of the science" and now we're at "it's not really science at all." In between that we've had "listen to my singular example and ignores the millions of trans lived experiences" and "look at this science, I know I said above I am critical of science but I like this one."

That goalpost is moving so fast, it deserves a medal at the Olympics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Palitutu

It started with "reality" and "basic biology," it then became "be critical of the science" and now we're at "it's not really science at all." In between that we've had "listen to my singular example and ignores the millions of trans lived experiences" and "look at this science, I know I said above I am critical of science but I like this one."

That goalpost is moving so fast, it deserves a medal at the Olympics.

---

https://i.gyazo.com/6c127430d79ee5ac...ef4a0b34c2.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Palitutu

I believe you.



Sociology is a science. Simply because the results it provides do not please you or because it does not adhere to the mental picture you have of "science," does not give you the right to call it a pseudo-science.

---

For background before anyone gets testy: I have raided and been friends with several transgender individuals for years. I hate that I have to say that, but it is what it is.

There is absolutely a replication and bias crisis in the social sciences at the moment, as well as a general data crisis. It's difficult, if not impossible, to replicate many studies, and data fudgery is a catastrophic problem.

I'm not going to go into detail past that because it is, frankly, irrelevant.

What is relevant is that Sena Bryer did an unacceptably poor job of voicing the character, in a role others have pointed out Bryer knew she could not fill.

Defending Sena Bryer on the basis that she is transgender is wrong, not morally, but for the fact that it is completely unrelated to criticism of her performance.

In the same vein, criticism on the basis of transgenderism is also wrong as again it is irrelevant.

The entire discussion about hot dogs or tacos is a complete sidestep to the issue at hand.

Bryer was placed in a role that they were not nearly ready to take on, and that's it. That's the entire problem. I'm going to criticize them on the same basis I would anyone else, and that is I paid for a product with a history of better production quality than this, and I did not receive acceptable quality. That's it, that's the entire point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galvuu

I really, really don't want to get tangled in this discussion... but I have an academic background (physics and computer science), and it's relatively well-known that social science fields have a slew of issues with the crushing majority of their studies (failure to reproduce, p-hacking, data shopping, data manipulation, biased datasets and/or methodology, etc). This is so egregious it actually undermines the whole field, and if you run statistical analysis on it, you see the results often deviate from expected distributions (mostly normal ones) or that opposing, contradictory effects are shown to be statistically significant across different studies (often very dubious). Worse, social fields have an immense amount of "publishing bias"- like, even if you have a great study with great population sampling and no errors that shows a powerful statistical effect implying "men are substantially better at maths than women" or "white people are better at performing surgeries than black people", this would never get published in today's climate, no matter how strong the association would be. To be perfectly clear, I don't believe either of these things; in fact, I firmly believe the opposite and that these factors are mostly irrelevant for the performance of either of those fields, it was an hypothetical thought experiment to illustrate the publishing bias issue.
Tied to this, it's also the fact many social problems are ultimately a matter of morality- the scientific method can draw models from observation, but that's all it does. It's predictive and descriptive- it's not meant to answer a moral problem and, honestly, can't really do it.
I'm just sharing this in some degree of agreement with you.

---

I'm just reminded of how many people believe that vaccines cause autism, because one dude made it up. People are going to believe what they want to believe, and make up "science" to back up their claims.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Palitutu

It started with "reality" and "basic biology," it then became "be critical of the science" and now we're at "it's not really science at all." In between that we've had "listen to my singular example and ignores the millions of trans lived experiences" and "look at this science, I know I said above I am critical of science but I like this one."

That goalpost is moving so fast, it deserves a medal at the Olympics.

---

Being critical of science is the cornerstone of science itself. Scientific models are known to always be approximate, and being corrected over time as more data and more powerful tools surface. This is true for every science. Of course, one cannot be expected to verify everything every time, but a healthy dose of skepticism is really what science is all about. Not gonna comment on anything else, but I thought I'd let this comment stay because people sometimes think of science as this timeless monolith, when it's more like a self-correcting collection of models we know aren't complete to begin with... they simply explain and predict the data to the best of our current ability.

Edit: funny enough, I often raid with two trans people, and they both hate Wuk Lamat's voice, so clearly there's something objectively off about that performance. I don't like adding things like these because it should be irrelevant who I raid with, but I find it funny that, in my circle, her performance is universally disliked, regardless of nationality or gender or anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigBoom550

Defending Sena Bryer on the basis that she is transgender is wrong, not morally, but for the fact that it is completely unrelated to criticism of her performance.

---

Where are those people "defending her performance because she is transgender?"

There is a lot of pushback against the transphobic attacks, like the person above purposefully misgendering her. But I have yet to see anyone say her performance shouldn't be attacked because she is trans. We wouldn't be here to defend her from the transphobic attack if people were adults and attacked her performance without sliding in insults.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galvuu

I'm just sharing this in some degree of agreement with you.

But the bottom line is, I'd be hesitant to trust the so-called "science" on most social issues.

---

I know, my profession is in statistical analysis, that's why model and method is always the first thing I question. So you can say it's a pet peeve of mind seeing people abuse the science name. Any one with decent familiarity with it would understand the monumental task it is to establish an objective study, and 10x harder to arrive at a conclusive answer. I always kinda ... piss me off seeing how lightly people taking the process for granted.


Especially when I feel it's wholly unnecessary. As much as I respect science, I don't believe it has to be omnipotence in our decision making. After all, it would be like handling governance to an AI that would operated on pure cold - hard logic. Computer doesn't have moral, objective science doesn't really care about right or wrong, but we DO. That's the whole reason why we put ethical barriers around scientific research so it doesn't violate our moral standard instead of just go all in the name of science. So isn't that a bit comical why some people think we need science to guide our principal?

Fake or true doesn't matter, I don't need science to tell me I should treat other human with respect, I don't know why some people think that's relevance. And by "some people" I'm pointing to people on both side of this debate. And by claiming unnecessary and bogus science to push an agenda, it damages the reliability of science where it will actually be relevant and matter (like climate change or vaccination).

Other than the massive elephant in the room, did anybody else get the feeling that Wuk Lamat's(English) voice was being modulated, or edited somehow?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bananarama

Other than the massive elephant in the room, did anybody else get the feeling that Wuk Lamat's(English) voice was being modulated, or edited somehow?

---

Idunno, that seems like it'd cost extra to do audio editing that doesn't even improve the quality of performance. SE is notorious for not spending money on stuff.

Yes. It's called voice tranning.

The accent is terribly muddled. At some points it almost sounds like an India accent... wtf?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

The accent is terribly muddled. At some points it almost sounds like an India accent... wtf?

---

I think that’s more of a an issue with not being able to maintain the accent she had to put on. Cuz some dialogue the accent seems dropped altogether or sounds off (possibly the India accent you heard?).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Papayatar

I think that’s more of a an issue with not being able to maintain the accent she had to put on. Cuz some dialogue the accent seems dropped altogether or sounds off (possibly the India accent you heard?).

---

Yes, it's very hit and miss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Papayatar

I think that’s more of a an issue with not being able to maintain the accent she had to put on. Cuz some dialogue the accent seems dropped altogether or sounds off (possibly the India accent you heard?).

---

If they really need a character to have a specific accent maybe they should consider getting actors who naturally have the accent they want, instead of getting people who force accents that sound about as authentic as that one scene from Portal 2 where the extremely British accented Wheatley does an absurdly fake American accent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ixQr7-3hyI

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IttyBittyShark

now why in the world did my post regarding his fandub get removed?

i am reposting the fandub for posterity because i think anyone who is concerned over quality should give this a listen (LISSEN TO MEEE), as it sounds exactly the same as his current voicework.

ancient fandub; same voice quality

see now my concern is that since my previous post got removed with this video, to me that just feels like some sort of cover up...? like what, you guys don't want people to see this consistent amateur quality? lol.

---

Again, you insist on calling Sena "HIS/HIM". I think that is very unkind of you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Plumerian_Ariadust

Let's say that the poster you quoted used Sena's preferred pronouns, would that change anything about the linked video showing amateurish voice acting that sounds no different than Sena's latest work that much of the EN community have an issue with?

---

It would not. I've said it many times, I'm not a fan of Sena's voice acting. Respecting the person behind the voice though, that takes very little effort. neo-western lol. Right, because America is a totally safe place for trans people LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BabySneed

If they really need a character to have a specific accent maybe they should consider getting actors who naturally have the accent they want, instead of getting people who force accents that sound about as authentic as that one scene from Portal 2 where the extremely British accented Wheatley does an absurdly fake American accent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ixQr7-3hyI

---

Some people are good at different accents so as long as you pick the right VA it’s not an issue. DT team kinda just threw darts at a board and hoped for the best.

Or maybe they thought the character would be loved by a majority and then kinda sorta ignore it. Kinda like Dick Van Dyke’s accent in Mary Poppins, many say it’s bad but everything else in his performance in the movie was good, so it’s more or less forgiven.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Papayatar

Some people are good at different accents so as long as you pick the right VA it’s not an issue. DT team kinda just threw darts at a board and hoped for the best.

---

French Wuk was quality acting. Didn't fix the writing, but it stopped me skipping everything.


I've not listened to German Wuk yet, but in terms of acting skill

1. French
2. Japan
...
...
776 English.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boblawblah

It would not. I've said it many times, I'm not a fan of Sena's voice acting. Respecting the person behind the voice though, that takes very little effort. neo-western lol. Right, because America is a totally safe place for trans people LOL

---

Look at this cope. Taking little effort is not a valid reason to compel somebody to do that.
>implying it's not one of the countries that bends over backwards the most to accommodate them

Nobody is obligated to respect the actor behind the voice, by the way. Are you upset that Plumerian_Ariadust has a point? :^)
Why is it that reasonable, polite disagreements like Plumerian's are considered anywhere from lolworthy and failing to be a decent person, to no longer being deserving of being in polite society?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bananarama

Nobody is obligated to respect the actor behind the voice, by the way.

---

No, they aren't. However, we can roll our eyes and think 'If only they knew it cheapens, or invalidates their opinion".

Now, maybe - likely even - that doesn't bother the poster, however it just adds more ammunition to the 'all Wuk haters are transphobes' side of the argument which means... Look forward to this characters English VA for the next 10 years (for anyone still using English voices)

I really think we should continue to focus on the performance, and not specifically Sena's being trans. There is a lot to critique, but I think someone's personal feeling on transgenderism goes far beyond the scope of Wuk Lamat's voice acting and is best left for another forum.

We already have well-renowned characters like Bart Simpson who is male and voiced by a female, so the actor's gender specifically should not really be a concern. How well they do in the role I think is more fair game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I really think we should continue to focus on the performance...

---

i agree and i apologize i am just sick to death of that user telling everyone how to speak. normally i don't get so irritated by bait, but lol.

i'm only here because i love FFXIV and want better quality. i was sorely disappointed with this performance that changed the way i play the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IttyBittyShark

i agree and i apologize i am just sick to death of that user telling everyone how to speak. normally i don't get so irritated by bait, but lol.

i'm only here because i love FFXIV and want better quality. i was sorely disappointed with this performance that changed the way i play the game.

---

I was very disappointed in the acting as well. I did try to like Wuk Lamat, even though I immediately disliked her even in the EW patches. I pre-ordered DT and really wanted to enjoy the story, and her acting just didn't help. (Luckily I'm in love with Sphene, so ... that helped make up for it lol).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I was very disappointed in the acting as well. I did try to like Wuk Lamat, even though I immediately disliked her even in the EW patches. I pre-ordered DT and really wanted to enjoy the story, and her acting just didn't help. (Luckily I'm in love with Sphene, so ... that helped make up for it lol).

---

to be honest i actually really like Wuk Lamat but i do admit she has a lot of problems that i'm hoping get sorted out with some better writing. her Japanese VA did a very stellar job at bringing her to life. i think a part of the reason so many people hate Lamaty'i is because of the bad English voice work. she is by no means a perfect character but she is greatly more enjoyable when she has that genki girl oomph to her.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shibi

French Wuk was quality acting. Didn't fix the writing, but it stopped me skipping everything.


I've not listened to German Wuk yet, but in terms of acting skill

1. French
2. Japan
...
...
776 English.

---

Wow you’re generous even ranking it all lol.

But here’s one Pre-DT aka her introduction to us https://youtu.be/Du_wJWEkV3k

And here’s one Mid-DT https://youtu.be/wVr8s6AKHMs

It’s only snippets but it’s enough to see the differences imo.

Edit to add: I still have to get through my 3rd Alt so I might change to German cuz that one is my fav sounding one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IttyBittyShark

to be honest i actually really like Wuk Lamat but i do admit she has a lot of problems that i'm hoping get sorted out with some better writing. her Japanese VA did a very stellar job at bringing her to life. i think a part of the reason so many people hate Lamaty'i is because of the bad English voice work. she is by no means a perfect character but she is greatly more enjoyable when she has that genki girl oomph to her.

---

I think she overstayed her welcome. I think by her coronation she should have sat out the rest of the story. I felt she was smothering, and having bad voice acting to go along with it made me far more upset than a reasonable person should be.

I only took solace when I could

1. Refuse to hold her hand.
2. Hint she is incompetent
3. Leave her out of Trust Dungeons
4. Refuse to call her LlamaTea

I would prefer to hear a Spanish VA..or Quechua.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I think she overstayed her welcome. I think by her coronation she should have sat out the rest of the story. I felt she was smothering, and having bad voice acting to go along with it made me far more upset than a reasonable person should be.

I only took solace when I could

1. Refuse to hold her hand.
2. Hint she is incompetent
3. Leave her out of Trust Dungeons
4. Refuse to call her LlamaTea

---

LOL. i can definitely see how people feel the way that you do. i think i was just enamored that we had a big catgirl NPC tbh. if she was a midlander or something i'd probably find her as grating as most people do. i have such a silly bias.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IttyBittyShark

LOL. i can definitely see how people feel the way that you do. i think i was just enamored that we had a big catgirl NPC tbh. if she was a midlander or something i'd probably find her as grating as most people do. i have such a silly bias.

---

I get it lol. If it was a hot babe like 7.0 Minfilia with good voice acting, I'd:

1. Offer to hold her hand.
2. Scowl at anyone calling her incompetent.
3. Heal-bot in all Trusts
4. Call her LlamaTea before I was invited to.

I keep getting hate reported because people hate facts. :) (glad to see others agree with me so know you are appreciated)

Anyways, I would like her to just sit on her thrones from now on in future patches and expansions. She isnt needed anymore. We can move onto new and exciting things now by ourself. We toured the whole land so we can get on fine without a guide. Maybe even some beach time and an actual vacation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I get it lol. If it was a hot babe like 7.0 Minfilia with good voice acting, I'd:

1. Offer to hold her hand.
2. Scowl at anyone calling her incompetent.
3. Heal-bot in all Trusts
4. Call her LlamaTea before I was invited to.

---

- Mifilina was a midlander, was the only Scion that has a rather sexy outfit, and she even has ... assets. I'm pretty sure the reason she made an exist at the end of 2.0 was because she was very unpopular.

- Lyse is probably one of the most pleasant looking midlander character in the game with a very good out fit ... again, that wasn't enough to save her from the 4.0 writing.

Like granted, the census data of Mi'qote and Aura definitely show the players base preference toward traditional beauty. But it has never been enough to skew people perception of the writing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven2014

- Mifilina was a midlander, was the only Scion that has a rather sexy outfit, and she even has ... assets. I'm pretty sure the reason she made an exist at the end of 2.0 was because she was very unpopular.

- Lyse is probably one of the most pleasant looking midlander character in the game with a very good out fit ... again, that wasn't enough to save her from the 4.0 writing.

Like granted, the census data of Mi'qote and Aura definitely show the players base preference toward traditional beauty. But it has never been enough to skew people perception of the writing.

---

Minfilia and Lyse aren't unpopular with me lol.

I finished Arcadion, finally. It's insane how much more exciting and invested I was in that short storyline than the entirety of the MSQ.

Plus the English voice acting was actually good. What the hell.

I wonder how many puerto rican women even auditioned, or if it was strictly just american women, since Cahciua is also american and Sena was praising the casting being all Latino/Indigenous voice actors for every single character


No image ever works when posting from imgur but there's one meant to be below this text.
https://imgur.com/a/nothing-G303Mt9

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IvoryHawk

I wonder how many puerto rican women even auditioned, or if it was strictly just american women, since Cahciua is also american and Sena was praising the casting being all Latino/Indigenous voice actors for every single character


No image ever works when posting from imgur but there's one meant to be below this text.
https://imgur.com/a/nothing-G303Mt9

---

Here you go (this is the image the person above was trying to post):
https://i.imgur.com/0XDuQVa.png

Hint: Don't use the link to imgur url for showing images on these forums, link directly to the image itself. You can do this by right-clicking the image in imgur and using "Open Image in a New Tab" and then using the URL from that for linking images here.

IE: Imgur link you used for IMG tags is: https://imgur.com/a/nothing-G303Mt9
Image direct link that should have been used for IMG tags is: https://i.imgur.com/0XDuQVa.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karious

I finished Arcadion, finally. It's insane how much more exciting and invested I was in that short storyline than the entirety of the MSQ.

Plus the English voice acting was actually good. What the hell.

---

It's because the actors weren't trying to put on horrifically fake accents, for the most part.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IvoryHawk

I wonder how many puerto rican women even auditioned, or if it was strictly just american women, since Cahciua is also american and Sena was praising the casting being all Latino/Indigenous voice actors for every single character

---

This is the funniest part because Urqopacha is very obviously inspired in Peru, and many things screamed Inca empire, which is south american, not mesoamerican.
But I know, I know, as a south american I need to shut my mouth and leave the more educated first world people that know and care about those things more than I do speak for me, or so I believe that's how it's supposed to work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IttyBittyShark

now why in the world did my post regarding his fandub get removed?

i am reposting the fandub for posterity because i think anyone who is concerned over quality should give this a listen (LISSEN TO MEEE), as it sounds exactly the same as his current voicework.

ancient fandub; same voice quality

see now my concern is that since my previous post got removed with this video, to me that just feels like some sort of cover up...? like what, you guys don't want people to see this consistent amateur quality? lol.

---

It got removed because there is a active witch hunt in this thread certain people don't like when we use the correct pronouns to describe the va he/him and these people think we are intentionally doing it cuz we are phobes when in reality that's not the case I can't speak for anyone but myself but I'm only telling the truth when I use correct pronouns I'm not doing it cuz I'm trying to be hateful if others want to use she/her go for it I'm not going to stop you.