Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

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Originally Posted by Penthea

This is only true if the party in question are polite with their criticisms when they do give them. I don't think "dps better noob" counts as acknowledging any potential. I have seen people clearly take joy in being overly harsh. Once I saw someone openly admit they were being rude to get someone to leave because they couldn't initiate a kick due to unclaimed loot.

Sometimes people kick silently because they can't be bothered to give advice and want a better replacement fast, not because they think they're a lost cause. It's also to avoid drama as often even the most polite criticism can result in friction. And of course there's wanting to hide that you're using a parser.

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It's perfectly fine to do anything you can back up with votes.

Be grateful someone said something, even if rude, instead of reaching for a kick.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Be grateful someone said something, even if rude, instead of reaching for a kick.

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This is borderline justifying being rude. It may not be your intention but that's what it is.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

This is borderline justifying being rude. It may not be your intention but that's what it is.

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I suppose it's a different way of looking at what some consider rude.

Even if you don't like how someone says something, you can thank them for bringing it to your attention.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

If you're bad at your job and I call you bad for not using your entire toolkit or knowing your rotation correctly, and it's the truth, then you have two easy options: 1) Take that as a sign to improve or 2) Don't and I shall continue to keep calling you bad at a job that you've capped to level 70 when, by all means, you should have a basic competency to play that job at level 70.

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And how does one demonstrate that they've listened to your advice? Say someone's not properly doing their rotation, but your suggestion involves changes in a way the underperformer must reorganize their binds and change the order of the buttons they have been pressing in their rotation. They've taken your advice, but they are unable to put it in practice because they need some time to assimilate your suggested changes or rebind their skills/spells. Do you keep calling them bad here too?

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I suppose it's a different way of looking at what some consider rude.

Even if you don't like how someone says something, you can thank them for bringing it to your attention.

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Yes I'm sure everyone who has been told "l2p noob" has been super thankful for it. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Gallus

And how does one demonstrate that they've listened to your advice? Say someone's not properly doing their rotation, but your suggestion involves changes in a way the underperformer must reorganize their binds and change the order of the buttons they have been pressing in their rotation. They've taken your advice, but they are unable to put it in practice because they need some time to assimilate your suggested changes or rebind their skills/spells. Do you keep calling them bad here too?

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Oh dear god. Could you please stop to find another excuse every time someone writes something? If someone really picks up the tips during the dungeon you can see that if you know the class this person is playing. Its not even always a rotation thing, its also dodging, use of buffs and so on. There is A lot what you can easily see if you open your eyes.

Missed the last 10 odd pages but it seems the discussion has moved onto how to give advice to underperforming players? If so, I'm under no obligation to take the time out of my day to provide said advice, it's usually a lot faster to kick and replace with someone more capable. Sure I'll cut some slack for players leveling, that's the learning stage, but anyone who wants to do max level stuff can find great guides anywhere on the internet, or they can ask someone in their FC for some pointers before they jump in with random people who expect basic competency.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

And how does one demonstrate that they've listened to your advice? Say someone's not properly doing their rotation, but your suggestion involves changes in a way the underperformer must reorganize their binds and change the order of the buttons they have been pressing in their rotation. They've taken your advice, but they are unable to put it in practice because they need some time to assimilate your suggested changes or rebind their skills/spells. Do you keep calling them bad here too?

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Uh yes, until they're actually competent. If you don't want people calling you bad, then you improve. It's simple and not rocket science as you keep making it out to be.

Enough of the same tired excuses. Do you constantly make excuses for why you get a failing grade? No, you strive to turn that F into a B or A at the very least. There are no excuses for lack of skills or incompetency other than you holding yourself back from doing better.

If the human race didn't learn to improve upon failings or things that we ourselves were lacking on, than we'd still be stuck living in caves.

Why do you need to keep making excuse after excuse for why someone can't improve? If you're trying to hold someone back from improving when you know that they can do so, you are part of the problem then.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

And how does one demonstrate that they've listened to your advice? Say someone's not properly doing their rotation, but your suggestion involves changes in a way the underperformer must reorganize their binds and change the order of the buttons they have been pressing in their rotation. They've taken your advice, but they are unable to put it in practice because they need some time to assimilate your suggested changes or rebind their skills/spells. Do you keep calling them bad here too?

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Yes you keep calling them bad until they've proven otherwise. Most of the time, you reorganizing your binds/hotbars/skills so you can easily find them on the screen, not for your rotation. If you need to practice, then you should do so on the several training dummies each citystate has. All of these seem like a bunch of excuses on why someone should get carried rather than learning whatever they need.

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Originally Posted by Daibunnie

Yes you keep calling them bad until they've proven otherwise. Most of the time, you reorganizing your binds/hotbars/skills so you can easily find them on the screen, not for your rotation. If you need to practice, then you should do so on the several training dummies each citystate has. All of these seem like a bunch of excuses on why someone should get carried rather than learning whatever they need.

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I think that player is referring to someone being told mid-instance to change something about their rotation and they might find it difficult to because their keybinds are not set up optimally for it. The player obviously hasn't the time to fiddle with their ui a lot if they're already in the act of doing content. Never mind that so much about getting dps to be decent is having trained muscle memory. Unless the change is tiny the player won't transcend into new muscle memory very smoothly mid-instance.