Dark Knight Megathread

Really TBN has the right idea, you shouldn’t get the excog on HOC for free (same as the regen on holy Shelton and the healing on bloodwhetting)

Tank mitigations should be about using them at the right time, the whole “well GNB gets it for free so DRK should as well” mindset is what’s messing up the entire support role because the healers have the same problem

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Well honestly I think they're going to HAVE to nerf both WAR and PLD pretty heavily in the party sustain area, the big stink we had about TOP and P12S being cleared healerless as current content both have a commonality of swapping those healers over to extra PLDs and WARs.


Bad things will happen if we don't deal with this now and we keep powercreeping in this direction.

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The problem with TOP weren't solely those jobs, although they definitely need to nerf their party sustain. It was the combination of all jobs with healing to cycle through and nonexistent sustained party damage in the fight. Redmage, Reaper, Dancer and Summoner all bring not only some fairly decent healing but also mitigation utility, with monk providing a 10% buff for all of their healing actions.

Everlasting Flight is 700 AoE cure potency over 21 seconds every 2 minutes
Rekindle is another 1400 single-target cure potency over 15 seconds (provided the target drops below 75% which isn't very hard to achieve)
Curing Waltz is 600 AoE cure potency every 60 seconds
Arcane Crest is 250 AoE cure potency over 15 seconds every 30 seconds
Shake is 800 AoE cure potency over 15 seconds every 2 minutes on top of the 15% barrier
And of course Nascent Flash with it's ridiculous 1600 single-target cure potency every 25 seconds.

I left out Vercure and Clemency since those come at the cost of DPS, everything listed is just free healing.
Warrior's healing is certainly overtuned but it wasn't carrying that no-healer kill on it's own, especially since they only had 1 warrior.
Sustain, especially AoE healing, on all the non-healer jobs needs some looking at.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Really TBN has the right idea, you shouldn’t get the excog on HOC for free (same as the regen on holy Shelton and the healing on bloodwhetting)

Tank mitigations should be about using them at the right time, the whole “well GNB gets it for free so DRK should as well” mindset is what’s messing up the entire support role because the healers have the same problem

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I agree but we're a bit too far beyond that at this point. I really can't see them nerfing the other 3 lv 82 tank mits, it would piss off a lot of people.

For sure job changes have already been made, however, as SMN got a last minute rework in 6.0, I hope SE sees this and considers maybe giving DRK a slight rework in 7.0 or 7.1, as they had removed too much in the 5.0 rework.

Here are some ideas to change existing actions:
- Combine Dark Mind into Oblation. Too many buttons that should do the same thing, lowering the CD per charge to 45 seconds might help.
- Combine Carve and Spit and Abyssal Drain together into a new oGCD that heals and does high potency damage to 1st target, with fall off for other targets.

New stuff:
- Add another combo after Syphon Strike, that generates Bloodgauge over time, so you can alternate between Souleater and this new button, or a high potency attack like Goring Blade.
- Change Delirium to grants something unique instead of Inner Release copy. Stormblood's version that extended other buffs was cool in my opinion.
- Add a new ability that heals you ( old Sole Survivor was pretty interesting, or old Blood price )
- Job action timers can be 40 seconds too, increased frequency is very nice!
- Living Shadow is kind of boring as it doesn't exactly copy your actions nor does it do anything under your control, maybe a RPR style enshroud effect would be better, but suited to tank?
- 2 job gauges is an alright concept but only on jobs that have something else as their identity ( ex: Ninja's mudras ). Darkside feels incomplete and the Bloodgauge is too similar to Warrior.

PLD is the Confiteur combo tank, GNB is the 30 second Gnashing Fang and Continuation tank, Warrior is the Inner Release tank, DRK is kind of left out...

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Originally Posted by ItsUrBoi

For sure job changes have already been made, however, as SMN got a last minute rework in 6.0, I hope SE sees this and considers maybe giving DRK a slight rework in 7.0 or 7.1, as they had removed too much in the 5.0 rework.

Here are some ideas to change existing actions:
- Combine Dark Mind into Oblation. Too many buttons that should do the same thing, lowering the CD per charge to 45 seconds might help.
- Combine Carve and Spit and Abyssal Drain together into a new oGCD that heals and does high potency damage to 1st target, with fall off for other targets.

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Carve & Spit / Abyssal Drain merge, sure whatever though I prefer if Carve & Spit didn't get deleted as I like the animation of the skill.

As for the Dark Mind + Oblation merge - for the love of god, can we stop suggesting this? Dark Mind's only issue, if anything, is that unlike GNB's camouflage it does zero and null on physical damage; a problem Addle & Feint have been addressed on by simply giving half of the other type's mitigation as well. Doing so would make Dark Mind not completely dedge for physical purposes (dungeon pulls among many things).

And seriously, Oblation is great because it is versatile and gives you choices without having to sacrifice access to DM. Sure it isn't the best Lv82 gain vs other tanks, but it really does not need to be merged so we reach an arbitrary amount of mitigation buttons per tank. Could consider a 400p heal once it expires, similar to that AST mitigation from EW.

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Originally Posted by ItsUrBoi

New stuff:
- Add another combo after Syphon Strike, that generates Bloodgauge over time, so you can alternate between Souleater and this new button, or a high potency attack like Goring Blade.
- Change Delirium to grants something unique instead of Inner Release copy. Stormblood's version that extended other buffs was cool in my opinion.
- Add a new ability that heals you ( old Sole Survivor was pretty interesting, or old Blood price )
- Job action timers can be 40 seconds too, increased frequency is very nice!
- Living Shadow is kind of boring as it doesn't exactly copy your actions nor does it do anything under your control, maybe a RPR style enshroud effect would be better, but suited to tank?
- 2 job gauges is an alright concept but only on jobs that have something else as their identity ( ex: Ninja's mudras ). Darkside feels incomplete and the Bloodgauge is too similar to Warrior.

PLD is the Confiteur combo tank, GNB is the 30 second Gnashing Fang and Continuation tank, Warrior is the Inner Release tank, DRK is kind of left out...

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• The Blood-over-time idea is interesting. Maybe not just BoT but also a HoT opposed to Souleater's direct Blood + Heal?
• Stormblood Delirium was based and I'd happily take the Blood-MP interplay back in a heartbeat.
• Bloodbath (lol). The job naming everything darkness and blood doesn't have access to Bloodbath, which is weird. Personally I'd prefer a PvP style DRK, but the players will never be ready for it in PvE. (for reference - HP spending would be limited but DPS-efficient, so no you wouldn't enslave your healers into dps-fodder for you)
• 40s, 45s, 80s. Good times with these. 40s BW, 80s Delirium, giving you 47.5% haste uptime. And placable Salted Earth on 45s CD. Wish Salted had a bit more than just that (see PvP).
• I saw an idea about making Living Shadow actually copy certain things you do, similar to Bunshin but on steroids. OGCDs included and with maintenance upkeep. Was a really cool idea.
• Bloodgauge could use different spenders than Bloodspiller and Living Shadow. Also frankly, Bloodspiller today and Bloodspiller back then feel nowhere alike. Back then a 540p DA-Bloodspiller was absolutely massive, today with 510p Carve, 460p EoS and 600p Shadowbringers, Bloodspiller feels like a drop in the bucket.

As for Darkside - Darkside spenders/drainers. Could link to the living shadow idea perhaps. We had this concept for Geirskogul in HW Dragoon. It was a nice concept, but the issue was the randomized access to the Blood of the Dragon time generators.

We had our identity - the Haste tank with weaponskill enhancement. The tank who had resource interplay (MP <--> Blood). DRK tourists at the time didn't like it and we had to pay for it. All they had to do to tone down the "spamminess" of Dark Arts was +50% the cost and potency gains from it. I like EoS and Shadowbringer in aesthetic, but I lost too much to be happy about them and they are bland.

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Originally Posted by ItsUrBoi

... SMN got a last minute rework in 6.0, I hope SE sees this and considers maybe giving DRK a slight rework....

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Be careful in what you wish for. I don't mind if the rework will take time... for as long as it doesn't turn out to be another EW SMN.

Remember, Living Shadow is a pet.

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Originally Posted by rawker

Be careful in what you wish for. I don't mind if the rework will take time... for as long as it doesn't turn out to be another EW SMN.

Remember, Living Shadow is a pet.

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For all I know it is a DoT with legs and behaves worse. The idea is cool, but man the lack of interaction sucks.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

As for the Dark Mind + Oblation merge - for the love of god, can we stop suggesting this? Dark Mind's only issue, if anything, is that unlike GNB's camouflage it does zero and null on physical damage; a problem Addle & Feint have been addressed on by simply giving half of the other type's mitigation as well. Doing so would make Dark Mind not completely dedge for physical purposes (dungeon pulls among many things).

And seriously, Oblation is great because it is versatile and gives you choices without having to sacrifice access to DM. Sure it isn't the best Lv82 gain vs other tanks, but it really does not need to be merged so we reach an arbitrary amount of mitigation buttons per tank. Could consider a 400p heal once it expires, similar to that AST mitigation from EW.

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I meant that Dark Mind would stay as it is, and then at lvl 82 it upgrades into Oblation:
- 2 charges, 45 secs cooldown per charge
- 10% mitigation and additional 20% magical mitigation
- lasts 10 seconds

It generally doesn't make sense to have 3 buttons that you usually combine into one: TBN, Oblation and Dark Mind. The only time you'd not use Oblation with Dark Mind is if the attack was magical, and if it is you'd anyway use both along with TBN. The reason its not good to add more onto TBN is because it'd be harder to break, but merging other defensives seems good, why would it be dedge?

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

For all I know it is a DoT with legs and behaves worse. The idea is cool, but man the lack of interaction sucks.

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If you think about it, it is very much similar with MCH's automaton queen where both have gap closers then vomits a lot of melees then uses a major cooldown (2 in case of AQ) before it "peace out" the battlefield. :D

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Originally Posted by ItsUrBoi

I meant that Dark Mind would stay as it is, and then at lvl 82 it upgrades into Oblation:
- 2 charges, 45 secs cooldown per charge
- 10% mitigation and additional 20% magical mitigation
- lasts 10 seconds

It generally doesn't make sense to have 3 buttons that you usually combine into one: TBN, Oblation and Dark Mind. The only time you'd not use Oblation with Dark Mind is if the attack was magical, and if it is you'd anyway use both along with TBN. The reason its not good to add more onto TBN is because it'd be harder to break, but merging other defensives seems good, why would it be dedge?

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For a start, merging DM and Oblation into one comes with the obvious downside of being unable to ration and let the cooldowns tick individually. Even with 2x 45s recharge it still isn't as versatile as self Dark Mind and two separate Oblation charges.

There are and could be times where you want to keep Dark Mind for yourself and toss the two Oblation on DPS/healers (Dragonsong Ultimate), there are times you want to Dark Mind on a specifically magic buster and use the two Oblation for auto attacks or physical buster/raidwides for dps (DSR, P10S, P8S as examples).

There are times you want the 10% physical once or twice in a short bit without having to sacrifice your Dark Mind for it.

Long story short, having Oblation on separate cooldown to Dark Mind is better and more versatile than having a weird amalgamation of the two in an attempt to cut down mitigation keys.

...and I'm not even mentioning balance. Handing out effective 29% magic mitigation to a target is ridiculous and would never fly. It would most likely turn into 10% phys and 20% magical or 10% generic and 10% magical (net 19%). I want that for Dark Mind, not for Oblation-Mind.

My simplest suggestion to make Oblation more interesting is a 400-500p heal upon expiration, similar to the AST cooldown.from Endwalker.

TL;DR: I dislike the reduction in versatility for the sole purpose of cutting down a button.