Gender locked race?

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Originally Posted by KaijinRhada

So you're rescinding that comment/support, because of some people that are a bit extreme in their hypothetical dissatisfaction?

I know people have their reasons to want/not want/feel neutral about various content, but I think the worst reason is to deny people out of pure spite. You may feel good about making unreasonable people feel bad, but for those that are being reasonable about the topic, it feels petty.

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yea, that is why I said she was being nasty earlier. XD Very uncalled for. I'm not trying to begrudge anyone being excited for whatever hrothgar are just because I want male viera too.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

Edit: also I don't know what trailer you guys were watching but unless I'm blind, they didn't have all the same faces.

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Watch again, it's been pointed out in several threads, including this one, that all 4 Viera in the trailer share the same face, eye, lip shape and nose, it's masked because of the differing coloration but it's pretty dang obvious and the bangs of 3 of them block their eyebrows (and one is using face markings), so either the Viera are super limited customization-wise or it's the same face.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

Watch again, it's been pointed out in several threads, including this one, that all 4 Viera in the trailer share the same face, eye, lip shape and nose, it's masked because of the differing coloration but it's pretty dang obvious and the bangs of 3 of them block their eyebrows (and one is using face markings), so either the Viera are super limited customization-wise or it's the same face.

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Not to mention they decided to just reuse Fran's outfit for their RSE. Didn't they have a different one in the concept art?

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Originally Posted by Lacan

yea, that is why I said she was being nasty earlier. XD Very uncalled for. I'm not trying to begrudge anyone being excited for whatever hrothgar are just because I want male viera too.

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Again, having a viewpoint change isn't nasty. Reading through this thread is like an exercise in restraint because everyone is so biased in how they read into things. It's like everyone is super hard-headed and trying to warp things to fit how they see it. It isn't petty to want to side with the dev team's decision over people complaining because they built up an idea in their head and clues keep coming out against it.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

Watch again, it's been pointed out in several threads, including this one, that all 4 Viera in the trailer share the same face, eye, lip shape and nose, it's masked because of the differing coloration but it's pretty dang obvious and the bangs of 3 of them block their eyebrows (and one is using face markings), so either the Viera are super limited customization-wise or it's the same face.

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Like I'm watching it over and over now, lol. To me they all look different. The lips are 100% different sizes and shapes for sure. I can't see the eye detail that well but the black haired far right one looks vaaastly different than the beyonce looking headliner up front to me.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

I mean if anything a male Viera would fit the mold they already have creatively, though. Like if they're lala-viera types that would be somewhat different than what we already have but otherwise it's the same type of humanesque model with an animal part. If anything, a lion type of burly beastman would be the different type creatively.

Edit: also I don't know what trailer you guys were watching but unless I'm blind, they didn't have all the same faces.

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I think my issue with it more is that it kinda reaffirms that whole "only women can be sexy and cute, while men have to be big, hairy brutes" by going Viera female only / beast man male only. It's the idea that they are too "uncomfortable" (their words not mine) to make bunny men, bunny suits, female primals that aren't just babes painted gold, and tall, strong lioness women. Equal opportunity for those who want pretty things and those who want beast-like things. Actually, after thinking about it more, I think that those who would want female Hrothgar (should they be male only) would be the ones most SoL since there really wouldn't be something similar for them and everything is constantly waifu'd in this game until it's unrecognizable... looking at you Au Ra.

Also -

https://66.media.tumblr.com/6a7cbdc5...u5px1p_500.png

The one with the face paint is a lot harder to notice because of her face paint and turned head, but those are definitely all the same face with the same presets. The only thing that's changed is color palettes and the lighting.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

Again, having a viewpoint change isn't nasty. Reading through this thread is like an exercise in restraint because everyone is so biased in how they read into things. It's like everyone is super hard-headed and trying to warp things to fit how they see it. It isn't petty to want to side with the dev team's decision over people complaining because they built up an idea in their head and clues keep coming out against it.

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I think wishing for people to not get something they want just because they are strongly opinionated about it is pretty petty, but that's just me. The EU fanfest was very vague about viera when it came to this, and the leaks have only made things more confusing. I don't think it is uncalled for to people to draw their own conclusions about what is going on. Why rain on people's parades?

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Originally Posted by KaijinRhada

So you're rescinding that comment/support, because of some people that are a bit extreme in their hypothetical dissatisfaction?

I know people have their reasons to want/not want/feel neutral about various content, but I think the worst reason is to deny people out of pure spite. You may feel good about making unreasonable people feel bad, but for those that are being reasonable about the topic, it feels petty. It's like people that want the genderlock, simply because BLU is limited, and they want someone else to suffer too (and I personally know people that have that opinion).

Either way, genderlocks aren't something I agree with, but in the end we still have to wait and see.

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I 100% agree with you. I am definitely changing my position. I was in this thread earlier and sympathetic with people that wanted male viera when everyone was being reasonable and not slandering a dev team that does their best for us. I am disgusted by some of the things I've seen on the NA official forums after Yoshi told us he gets a feed of the top threads in the forums and reads them. I am ashamed that he might consider this our playerbase when it's a vocal minority every single time.

If it's petty behavior then I own it.
See case in point below

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Originally Posted by Lacan

yea, that is why I said she was being nasty earlier. XD Very uncalled for. I'm not trying to begrudge anyone being excited for whatever hrothgar are just because I want male viera too.

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When you try to say hey "take a step outside your perspective and consider a broader view" and people just ignore what they want and pick and choose what to respond to when being uniformed with how game development works? It's incredibly disheartening. So now I'm just saving this post and will be back to laugh in a month.

If you can't beat em, join em.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

I think wishing for people to not get something they want just because they are strongly opinionated about it is pretty petty, but that's just me. The EU fanfest was very vague about viera when it came to this, and the leaks have only made things more confusing. I don't think it is uncalled for to people to draw their own conclusions about what is going on. Why rain on people's parades?

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Again it's not about getting what you want or not. It's about people basically degrading the dev team because they aren't getting bunny bois that were never promised. EU fanfest wasn't just vague about male Viera, it was 100% absent for a reason. You can believe it was because they're holding it for JP if you want, but imo it doesn't make sense that way. It's not raining on people's parades, it's having a different viewpoint.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

Again it's not about getting what you want or not. It's about people basically degrading the dev team because they aren't getting bunny bois that were never promised. EU fanfest wasn't just vague about male Viera, it was 100% absent for a reason. You can believe it was because they're holding it for JP if you want, but imo it doesn't make sense that way. It's not raining on people's parades, it's having a different viewpoint.

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Exactly, as an advocate for Male Viera earlier it has nothing to do with that. It's the fact that this thread devolved into nothing. Why rain on the dev team's parade when you have no clue how hard it was to even add another race when they've told us time and time again it's hard!

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

I think my issue with it more is that it kinda reaffirms that whole "only women can be sexy and cute, while men have to be big, hairy brutes" by going Viera female only / beast man male only. It's the idea that they are too "uncomfortable" (their words not mine) to make bunny men, bunny suits, female primals that aren't just babes painted gold, and tall, strong lioness women. Equal opportunity for those who want pretty things and those who want beast-like things. Actually, after thinking about it more, I think that those who would want female Hrothgar (should they be male only) would be the ones most SoL since there really wouldn't be something similar for them and everything is constantly waifu'd in this game until it's unrecognizable... looking at you Au Ra.

Also -

https://66.media.tumblr.com/6a7cbdc5...u5px1p_500.png

The one with the face paint is a lot harder to notice because of her face paint and turned head, but those are definitely all the same face with the same presets. The only thing that's change is color palettes and the lighting.

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Yeah, they definitely look the same looking at these close ups. Maybe the noses are a bit different but even that's a stretch lol. I guess they could be still working on other presets for female Vieras. Doesn't explain why they said absolutely zilch about males, though.

Edit: For the wanting cute men thing, I think that's assuming that male Viera would be cutesie rather than the buff men that have been drawn by fanart and such. I don't really see the dev team picking little boy male Vieras out of the different options, if male Vieras are in the cards. I think for strong type women Viera is pretty up there in that their model is Fran and Fran kicked butt. Plus they also have female Roes and Highlander? females.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

Again it's not about getting what you want or not. It's about people basically degrading the dev team because they aren't getting bunny bois that were never promised. EU fanfest wasn't just vague about male Viera, it was 100% absent for a reason. You can believe it was because they're holding it for JP if you want, but imo it doesn't make sense that way. It's not raining on people's parades, it's having a different viewpoint.

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See, that's just where I disagree. I think as a paying customer to this game, everyone has the right to complain about what the dev team is doing. You may not agree with the approach, but they are very much entitled to that. This forum is for collecting player input, and if that is how they feel they should be allowed to say it.

People are allowed to have different viewpoints, but I think telling someone "I hope you don't get what you want because I don't like how you're talking about the dev team!" is just being petty. Let people want what they want, let people be upset if they don't get the stuff that they want. SE wants all the feedback, not just the kind that is praising their actions.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

I think my issue with it more is that it kinda reaffirms that whole "only women can be sexy and cute, while men have to be big, hairy brutes" by going Viera female only / beast man male only. It's the idea that they are too "uncomfortable" (their words not mine) to make bunny men, bunny suits, female primals that aren't just babes painted gold, and tall, strong lioness women. Equal opportunity for those who want pretty things and those who want beast-like things. Actually, after thinking about it more, I think that those who would want female Hrothgar (should they be male only) would be the ones most SoL since there really wouldn't be something similar for them and everything is constantly waifu'd in this game until it's unrecognizable... looking at you Au Ra.

Also -

https://66.media.tumblr.com/6a7cbdc5...u5px1p_500.png

The one with the face paint is a lot harder to notice because of her face paint and turned head, but those are definitely all the same face with the same presets. The only thing that's changed is color palettes and the lighting.

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They do look the same lol.

I engage you to consider the following though: Japan is a highly traditional country where even though in America we might be slightly more progressive... In Japan the typical "Sexy/soft female - Strong male" thing is their desired preset. It's ingrained in their culture as a patriarchal society.

So while they are a global company, they have to make certain accommodations (male bunny suit) they aren't going to jump with arms wide open into feminine bunnybois. This is represented in every anime trophe ever. But it's not as though strides haven't been made, we've seen some more progressive themes filter into the game little by little. But I mean keep in mind that this game is created by a japanese company. It's going to take time.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Also -

https://66.media.tumblr.com/6a7cbdc5...u5px1p_500.png

The one with the face paint is a lot harder to notice because of her face paint and turned head, but those are definitely all the same face with the same presets. The only thing that's change is color palettes and the lighting.

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Also, there wasn’t a scene of one of them drawing/holding a weapon. (The Au Ra trailer has a scene of a male drawing a weapon. Why didn’t this one have a scene of someone doing that? Weird, right?)
So that leads me to believe that it was more of a teaser than a full blown trailer.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

See, that's just where I disagree. I think as a paying customer to this game, everyone has the right to complain about what the dev team is doing. You may not agree with the approach, but they are very much entitled to that. This forum is for collecting player input, and if that is how they feel they should be allowed to say it.

People are allowed to have different viewpoints, but I think telling someone "I hope you don't get what you want because I don't like how you're talking about the dev team!" is just being petty. Let people want what they want, let people be upset if they don't get the stuff that they want. SE wants all the feedback, not just the kind that is praising their actions.

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You're conflating various sentiments to try and make a point that "sounds ok" and win brownie points.

Giving constructive criticism is different than whining/tantrums and feedback.

Once again, you didn't read anyone's posts but I've already noted that SE would probably listen to a thread that respectfully petitioned for male vieras and that this whinefest isn't effective, it's just rude.

As a paying customer, you can give feedback. However you are not entitled to the game being in the form that you want it. The only power you have is to stop paying.

Therefore, giving your opinion in a way thats constructive is completely ok. But being terrible to a dev team is not just having "different viewpoints" isn't slandering an entire playerbase and making us NA players look like savages.

I Don't Want To Be Represented By Individuals That Don't Have The Human Decency To Formulate An Argument Without Throwing A Tantrum.

See what I did there? It's ridiculous to make a point while yelling or throwing tantrums. It's also important to read full responces and address them all.

You are trying to blend it all together to make it seem like I only want good comments. When really I am one of the toughest critics to this company. Especially over the state of housing right now. It just doesn't have to be a 160 whine fest that Yoshi will probably see and ignore because it's an ineffective method of inspiring change.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Man, if you have been reading my responses you know I have absolutely nothing against beast-like races like Ronso or Bangaa (both of which would be awesome). But no, no one has been asking for Hrothgar since they were just named last week.

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Well I mean people, myself and Theodric the souless duo here at least, have been wanting something for a while now. I wont speak for Theodric but I personally have been asking for something else, in a literal sense, for a while and when Viera came up had asked if we could have something different first or at the same time (but that was like three expansions ago...). As to me Viera doesn't really change up the formula of options where a "beast-like" race would (Miqote is human with ears, imo, Mithra in FF/SE's defense is more beastly in concept as it has the facial fuzz and nose).

I may have not asked for something called Hrothgar, and we're not even 100% confirmed that it will be a thing (just feels like it will), but it may be literally what I've been hoping for this whole time. So while I might not have said "Hrothgar" I could have been asking for it still.

It'd be like saying "nary a soul asked for pizza!!! why add it!?" but in the background some dude Shougun has been asking for food because he's in a food drought. If Pizza comes along and you said no one asked for it I'd be like (and rightly so) EXCUSE ME IM HUNGRY GIVE ME THAT!!! lol

Of course many of us who are excited for Hrothgar are working off of assumptions, and it's important to admit that. We don't know if they're for sure real and we don't know what exactly they'll be, if the info we have is accurate sort of Ronso lion like it sounds good but it could be not :D.

Anyway, at this time - this soul has asked for Hrothgar :). Maybe not in exact name but its possible I've been asking for it for a long time even, like actual years worth of desire XD.

(Wanted to add I'm having fun with the souless part, I've taken no real offense - I hope you don't feel me trying to pick on you lol. We're talking and I'm just saying it's very likely I've wanted this race since 1.0).

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Originally Posted by Fredco191

Also, there wasn’t a scene of one of them drawing/holding a weapon. (The Au Ra trailer has a scene of a male drawing a weapon. Why didn’t this one have a scene of someone doing that? Weird, right?)
So that leads me to believe that it was more of a teaser than a full blown trailer.

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That's my point of view too. I think it's possible that we'll get a full trailer for the race at Japan fanfest, and it'll show more actions for the race and customization AND the males. I could be wrong though, no doubt. That's just what makes the most sense to me considering the situation.

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Originally Posted by Fredco191

Also, there wasn’t a scene of one of them drawing/holding a weapon. (The Au Ra trailer has a scene of a male drawing a weapon. Why didn’t this one have a scene of someone doing that? Weird, right?)
So that leads me to believe that it was more of a teaser than a full blown trailer.

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That actually led to check out their Facebook page and They DID have an image album for HW (Several, in fact!) And the New Announcements from JP Fan Fest has the images of the Au Ra. But the only album from NA FF is the Cosplay Contest. Absolutely nothing on ShB except Yoshi's GUN cosplay and the CE preorders. Whatevere that means (if anything), is up in the air.

Could be that their social media team is being lazy, but then why upload pictures of the rest of the Fan Fest? It could mean a whole bunch of nothing or they're being cagey

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Once again, you didn't read anyone's posts but I've already noted that SE would probably listen to a thread that respectfully petitioned for male vieras and that this whinefest isn't effective, it's just rude.

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Rude is advertising a new expansion with this race for $40-$200 and then revealing its genderlocked only. If that's how you choose to interpret my comments then by all means continue but I'm being as direct and open as I can. Chaos will ensue if they make the mistake of revealing genderlocked Vieras and I won't feel sorry for anyone when that happens since there are thousands of posts in support of Male Viera. Ignore the people who pay for your product and they'll ignore you.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

I 100% agree with you. I am definitely changing my position. I was in this thread earlier and sympathetic with people that wanted male viera when everyone was being reasonable and not slandering a dev team that does their best for us. I am disgusted by some of the things I've seen on the NA official forums after Yoshi told us he gets a feed of the top threads in the forums and reads them. I am ashamed that he might consider this our playerbase when it's a vocal minority every single time.

If it's petty behavior then I own it.

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That mentality is something I have to disagree with. Wishing the exclusion of a choice by principle and by virtue of disliking the extreme positions that people hold (or the people themselves) makes no one happy. Certainly I think some people are acting out of hand in their anticipatory anger, but I'm not going to say "hey, you're being childish, so you shouldn't have this ever, and we may as well punish the reasonable people too, since they're only collateral damage!"

The demographics that want any given feature shouldn't be defined by a few people that metaphorically are flipping tables, and are much broader than that. The better way of dealing with this is by having and promoting respectful conversation and debate, despite things getting heated.

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Originally Posted by KaijinRhada

That mentality is something I have to disagree with. Wishing the exclusion of a choice by principle and by virtue of disliking the extreme positions that people hold (or the people themselves) makes no one happy. Certainly I think some people are acting out of hand in their anticipatory anger, but I'm not going to say "hey, you're being childish, so you shouldn't have this ever, and we may as well punish the reasonable people too, since they're only collateral damage!"

The demographics that want any given feature shouldn't be defined by a few people that metaphorically are flipping tables, and are much broader than that. The better way of dealing with this is by having and promoting respectful conversation and debate, despite things getting heated.

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Yes, I completely agree with you. I am not even married to my mentality. I am firmly just disgusted by this thread right now and will probably cool down tomorrow and go back to doing that.

Bravo for having more patience than me. I hope it's posts like yours that the dev team sees because advocating for common sense and decency went no where when people's M.O.s are to just skip and ignore what their saying without a logical following.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Rude is advertising a new expansion with this race for $40-$200 and then revealing its genderlocked only. If that's how you choose to interpret my comments then by all means continue but I'm being as direct and open as I can. Chaos will ensue if they make the mistake of revealing genderlocked Vieras and I won't feel sorry for anyone when that happens since there are thousands of posts in support of Male Viera. Ignore the people who pay for your product and they'll ignore you.

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But do you at least acknowledge that it's completely within their right to do so as a company and this is just an opinion you have and you're upset because you won't get what you want. Saying they are cheating you out of money is shenanigans.

The price of the expac doesn't matter (you don't have to buy it). You're just salt mines galore because you aren't getting what you want? Also when has SE ever ignored us with this game. They gave us male bunny suits, it just takes time. I'm not even convinced male viera aren't ever going to happen. Just probably not at launch.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

It's more of a "I find it hard to believe you would unsub from this game unless you're bored of it, or disagree with the gameplay changes SE make" (PvP being one example). Unsubbing because a race won't have a male version is silly to me, especially if you like everything else about the game (assuming he still enjoys the game and no male Viera is the only reason he would unsub).

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I don't like gender-locking races in principle. I can understand why it would be enough to drive someone to unsub.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I don't like gender-locking races in principle. I can understand why it would be enough to drive someone to unsub.

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Honestly, unsubbing is the only way to really get SE's attention. Even if it's only for a couple months it's the most powerful tool consumers have.

Just pls give us the man bunnies Yoshi. ;-;

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Originally Posted by Lacan

Just pls give us the man bunnies Yoshi. ;-;

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A reasonable post. That first "like" is from me. :)

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Honestly, unsubbing is the only way to really get SE's attention. Even if it's only for a couple months it's the most powerful tool consumers have.

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Yup, but that's the course Redcurrant is proposing to take. For me, it's not something that would push me over the tipping point, but I think it's a very negative design direction. Even BDO is starting to shy away from the gender locks.

I don't even mind the fact that the devs imbue the game with their more traditional Japanese mindset... I honestly find some of the "progressivism" in the US market to be cheapen games, as it's not what I turn to fantasy games for. However, I don't see how gender-locking Viera and introducing Hrothgar fits into this all, especially when they caved in and gave bunny outfits to both genders. At least with male Viera, they have full artistic direction so as to avoid making them cutesy. Why is it an issue now, after you can design very cutesy catboys with bunny ears? Hence, I don't take the 2013 remarks by Yoshi-P particularly seriously as an objection to male Viera.

I think if they are introducing Hrothgar, they will end up having to later on put in both genders. If that's the intention and they will simply "complete" each race later on in time, I've no real issue with it.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Yup, but that's the course Redcurrant is proposing to take. For me, it's not something that would push me over the tipping point, but I think it's a very negative design direction. Even BDO is starting to shy away from the gender locks.

I don't even mind the fact that the devs imbue the game with their more traditional Japanese mindset... I honestly find some of the "progressivism" in the US market to be cheapen games. However, I don't see how gender-locking Viera and introducing Hrothgar solves this problem, especially when they caved in and gave bunny outfits to both genders.

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Honestly, with the number of documented times they've talked about development cost constraints (SE treats FFXIV as a cashcow and draws a ton of profit from it without giving them much of an increased budget for development), why even make a second race? It has to be considerably easier to just make male and females, avoid all the ire from the vocal minority and develop gear for the male counterpart to the females.

So I am really interested in their reasoning at this point. I need the JP fanfest now lol.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Yes, I completely agree with you. I am not even married to my mentality. I am firmly just disgusted by this thread right now and will probably cool down tomorrow and go back to doing that.

Bravo for having more patience than me. I hope it's posts like yours that the dev team sees.

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I hope you know that not having a horse in this race, and coming in here and wishing an unfavorable outcome on those who just care too much is fanning the flames for those who are posting here because they would be extremely disappointed with se if they decided to give us two half finished races instead of one finished race.

Putting someone in a mindset where it is 100% chance that they will be disappointed already puts folk in a foul mood. And saying they deserve it when they express their desire to stop supporting a company that has stopped supporting them further diminishes their mood. Doing both when they have been being goaded by contrarians, "got mine, f you" folks, and people shaming them for having preferences pushes the thread into a flame war. I've never seen someone calling someone's poorly expressed concerns a tantrum and defusing the tension with the comparison.

I like cats. I want to play a big, beefy cat man.

By all means, add male Viera too - my beefy cat man will need something to chase around! ;)

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Originally Posted by Roda

I hope you know that not having a horse in this race, and coming in here and wishing an unfavorable outcome on those who just care too much is fanning the flames for those who are posting here because they would be extremely disappointed with se if they decided to give us two half finished races instead of one finished race.

Putting someone in a mindset where it is 100% chance that they will be disappointed already puts folk in a foul mood. And saying they deserve it when they express their desire to stop supporting a company that has stopped supporting them further diminishes their mood. Doing both when they have been being goaded by contrarians, "got mine, f you" folks, and people shaming them for having preferences pushes the thread into a flame war. I've never seen someone calling someone's poorly expressed concerns a tantrum and defusing the tension with the comparison.

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I don't think you've read my posts, so I can understand your pick and choose responce. You are entitled to feel that way but please understand considering how this thread is going, you're not admonishing me. I will continue to operate this way and will be back in a month either way to see how it goes down.

You didn't even read my latest post about how i think it doesn't make sense not to have male viera due to development so I mean... thank you. I agree with the sentiment of your post but you're not telling me anything I don't know, have addressed or disagree with.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

-snip-[/SIZE]

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Yeah, the problem is we have no idea what Hrothgar are. They might chop off half of a very requested race to put in a new one that might not be what people were asking for at all. They aren't Ronso, because if they were they would be called Ronso. I'm also growint to be not so jazzed about having another feline race when there could be... buff bird boys? Or buff dog boys? Or buff elemental boys?
Not to mention, SOME of those people wanted playable beast girls too! All of the beast tribes that have been requested have both genders, all of which have been seen! Ronsos, Bangaas, and Lupin all have females. Maybe I want to play a Bangaa in a coeurl print bikini? Who is SE to stop me! D:<

And none taken, I never thought you were out to get me. I also clearly didn't elaborate what I meant in the first post judging by some of the responses to me lol.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

They do look the same lol.

I engage you to consider the following though: Japan is a highly traditional country where even though in America we might be slightly more progressive... In Japan the typical "Sexy/soft female - Strong male" thing is their desired preset. It's ingrained in their culture as a patriarchal society.

So while they are a global company, they have to make certain accommodations (male bunny suit) they aren't going to jump with arms wide open into feminine bunnybois. This is represented in every anime trophe ever. But it's not as though strides haven't been made, we've seen some more progressive themes filter into the game little by little. But I mean keep in mind that this game is created by a japanese company. It's going to take time.

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I used to live in Japan. In the country side. I am pretty familiar with Japanese culture. The older folk definitely hang onto the ways of the past, and that's who is running SE. They do need to open themselves up for being equal, because it hurts no one and benefits them.

An aside though, even when I lived there places like Ikebukuro and butler cafes were becoming very popular very fast, animes like Free!, Kuroko no Basuke, and Kuroshitsuji were absolutely mowing over the rest of them (let me tell you about how the girls in my dorms used to force the boys off of the TV so they could watch anime boys swim lol it was a bloodbath), and even game stores and hobby shops were selling increasing amounts of female-oriented stuff. I don't think it's Japan as a whole since the younger crowd is pretty damn progressive. You would have to wear blinders to think that female fans weren't everywhere in Japan and absolutely ravenous since companies are still not quite grasping that fact.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Honestly, with the number of documented times they've talked about development cost constraints (SE treats FFXIV as a cashcow and draws a ton of profit from it without giving them much of an increased budget for development), why even make a second race? It has to be considerably easier to just make male and females, avoid all the ire from the vocal minority and develop gear for the male counterpart to the females.

So I am really interested in their reasoning at this point. I need the JP fanfest now lol.

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This exactly. They've told us time and time again that making races takes a whole lot of resources, so I find it rather strange how there's apparently 2 different races? Wouldn't it just have been easier to do male and female Viera and leave it at that, I feel like most people were expecting it and it's a rather safe bet. March 22nd can't come soon enough.

I just have trouble believing the people that want male viera are the minority though, given all the communication the EU fanfest has caused in both the east and west. I mean, like you said, maybe we're just vocal but it seems to be coming from all directions. Male viera have been talked about since FF12 even. I don't think the demand for them to be out of left field at all.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I like cats. I want to play a big, beefy cat man.

By all means, add male Viera too - my beefy cat man will need something to chase around! ;)

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Hey, now! Chase me and you'll get a few arrows for your trouble! >:P

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

I used to live in Japan. In the country side. I am pretty familiar with Japanese culture. The older folk definitely hang onto the ways of the past, and that's who is running SE. They do need to open themselves up for being equal, because it hurts no one and benefits them.

An aside though, even when I lived there places like Ikebukuro and butler cafes were becoming very popular very fast, animes like Free!, Kuroko no Basuke, and Kuroshitsuji were absolutely mowing over the rest of them (let me tell you about how the girls in my dorms used to force the boys off of the TV so they could watch anime boys swim lol it was a bloodbath), and even game stores and hobby shops were selling increasing amounts of female-oriented stuff. I don't think it's Japan as a whole since the younger crowd is pretty damn progressive. You would have to wear blinders to think that female fans weren't everywhere in Japan and absolutely ravenous since companies are still not quite grasping that fact.

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First. I am jealous of you lol but yeah! I think it's slowly an undercurrent so that's why my overall point is to give this game time while keeping all factors in mind as well. I don't see them ignoring us completely as the playerbase keeps asking for these things.

Not to mention it's bad business practice for any company that wants to operate in a global market to not take into account the cultures of their customers. I just don't see SE throwing themselves into the progressive wave lol.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Honestly, with the number of documented times they've talked about development cost constraints (SE treats FFXIV as a cashcow and draws a ton of profit from it without giving them much of an increased budget for development), why even make a second race? It has to be considerably easier to just make male and females, avoid all the ire from the vocal minority and develop gear for the male counterpart to the females.

So I am really interested in their reasoning at this point. I need the JP fanfest now lol.

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To be fair to them, they do re-invest in it; they quadrupled the budget for SB if memory serves, and I imagine ShB will benefit from an increased budget, too. The fact that Yoshi-P felt he could even mention a graphics overhaul on the panel with Ayumi (albeit they're still holding off on committing to this) makes me think he's confident the game will get continued funds as long as it makes SE money. So much so that they aren't even considering talk of another MMO just yet.

As for why they would toy with two races, it could just be that they see it as a good marketing tool to attract new players, especially nostalgic WoW players. I'm not yet 100% convinced about whether Hrothgar will be included, and I am sure if they are they will keep the design tame, but I could see it being a handy tool to draw more players. They have the opportunity to figure out why people don't play Roegadyn as much and factor it into their design.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

I just have trouble believing the people that want male viera are the minority though, given all the communication the EU fanfest has caused in both the east and west. I mean, like you said, maybe we're just vocal but it seems to be coming from all directions. Male viera have been talked about since FF12 even. I don't think the demand for them to be out of left field at all.

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Logically, if you took the time to count the number of people in this thread that "care" for the number of active players in the latest player count... This thread is just the same 30 to maybe at a high estimate 100 (gonna round up even more 500) players talking about this. Most players are going to be a bit peeved but not enough to do about it. So for NA alone, you're looking at maybe less than 1% the total active player base?

That's a minority.

Also, I didn't count so hence the high estimate. I am happy to have someone count.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I like cats. I want to play a big, beefy cat man.

By all means, add male Viera too - my beefy cat man will need something to chase around! ;)

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Roegadyn and all future bara cats get to chase me when I become a male Viera dancer, wearing my black summer evening swimsuit...

https://66.media.tumblr.com/65a1752d...rboc8m_500.gif

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Originally Posted by Lauront

To be fair to them, they do re-invest in it; they quadrupled the budget for SB if memory serves, and I imagine ShB will benefit from an increased budget, too. The fact that Yoshi-P felt he could even mention a graphics overhaul on the panel with Ayumi (albeit they're still holding off on committing to this) makes me think he's confident the game will get continued funds as long as it makes SE money. So much so that they aren't even considering talk of another MMO just yet.

As for why they would toy with two races, it could just be that they see it as a good marketing tool to attract new players, especially nostalgic WoW players. I'm not yet 100% convinced about whether Hrothgar will be included, and I am sure if they are they will keep the design tame, but I could see it being a handy tool to draw more players. They have the opportunity to figure out why people don't play Roegadyn as much and factor it into their design.

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Source for quadrupled budget?