Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

Theres a few factors people dont get about why they think its lazy training.

People might want to consider things like POTD for the rise in 'lazy play'. POTD and speed lvling means players arent learning their classes in an in depth manner. And you dont need to know your class all that well to clear POTD and the like.

The problem MMOs always face with more and more content is that to allow new players to 'catch up', they end up dumbing down the content that would teach players how to play their class effectively, or even the game at large.

To many people get to max level way to quick, then try to do end game content just like how they did the power lvling, and well, we know how that turns out. If you want less Lazy play, lower lvl content needs to be not so easily bypassed. No POTD for sub 60 alternate classes. No unsynched runs for sub lvl 60 characters. Etc. Force people to play the content.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Theres a few factors people dont get about why they think its lazy training.

People might want to consider things like POTD for the rise in 'lazy play'. POTD and speed lvling means players arent learning their classes in an in depth manner. And you dont need to know your class all that well to clear POTD and the like.

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There are many people who does things through dungeons too and yet to know their classes. We talk about people who been playing for years.

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

You are oversimplifying though. It's not just hit 1-2-3. You have to also deal with how large a group of mobs are, you have to make sure they are facing the correct direction when maintaining aggro, you have to deal with the occasional aoe requiring you to move, you have to make sure your hotbar is set up correctly so you can use those skills efficiently, you have to actually know what those skills do, you have to understand what the tool tip is telling you and so on. It's not just 1-2-3. For people like me, it can just be too much.

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No, this is literally "hit Flash a few times". That's it. If you do that and nothing else, you will tank all trash in Dusk Vigil effectively enough to keep everything on you (and thus probably clear). It's a very low standard of play and they failed to meet it.

It's hard to say if its laziness or incompetence, but whatever it is, at that level it's unacceptable.

If you want to be a good tank, then you need to deal with proper rotations and cooldown usage and stance dancing and all that. But all those things come after the enemies are hitting you... and that means hit Flash.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

To many people get to max level way to quick, then try to do end game content just like how they did the power lvling, and well, we know how that turns out. If you want less Lazy play, lower lvl content needs to be not so easily bypassed. No POTD for sub 60 alternate classes. No unsynched runs for sub lvl 60 characters. Etc. Force people to play the content.

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While I agree with the idea behind this, as the game goes forward, if you force the lowbies to brick their way up all the time, they'll never catch up.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

While I agree with the idea behind this, as the game goes forward, if you force the lowbies to brick their way up all the time, they'll never catch up.

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Meet it halfway. You cant use POTD unless you get a class to 50 the first time, (there should be no reason to use POTD if youre still sub 50 on ANY class), and you need to run all MSQ dungeons once unsynched. It doesnt take months to clear the MSQ dungeons. theres only 20 or 30 of them at most.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

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Except PotD unlocks at level 17? There's no reason to gate off alternate methods of leveling just because there are players who are sub-par. It is also a great way to bridge the level gaps that the 2.0 story has.

And why the additional requirement of basically having to complete the 2.55 story? I don't see why such a requirement should be needed for PotD. If you're implying that doing dungeons help people learn their class then I'll happily disagree with you.

I remember SE saying that PotD would be content veteran players could do with friends that just started the game waaay back when it was first announced. Gating it behind so much of the main story would take away from that.

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Could have been someone who just sucks at tanking.

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If you suck so much on the job that you cant even do the basics like keeping hate then you really shouldnt run those dungeons. Those players simply could train their skills in stuff like palace of the death or even with the new commando. I am bad at tanking too so I only level it up outside of dungeons. I would find it not fair for the group if they had to play even harder just because I am that bad. I mean if you dont have enough good players with you just that one person can make a run impossible. So yes its bad for them to have to level it on another way but one should not punish the other players for their own lack in skill.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Meet it halfway. You cant use POTD unless you get a class to 50 the first time, (there should be no reason to use POTD if youre still sub 50 on ANY class), and you need to run all MSQ dungeons once unsynched. It doesnt take months to clear the MSQ dungeons. theres only 20 or 30 of them at most.

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PotD isn't the problem.

It's an odd leveling option, but it still gives you a taste of your job. If you read your abilities, you still can learn in Palace. The only thing Palace can't teach you is positioning. Bosses do last long enough to get rotations out.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Meet it halfway. You cant use POTD unless you get a class to 50 the first time, (there should be no reason to use POTD if youre still sub 50 on ANY class), and you need to run all MSQ dungeons once unsynched. It doesnt take months to clear the MSQ dungeons. theres only 20 or 30 of them atmost.

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Problem you seem to have is assuming. I feel you think the general "skill level" of the average DF runner went down after POTD was released. I do not agree with that. If someone's personality is to care about their performance, they will learn how to play the job just running POTD. Likewise if someone is lazy, do not care, etc, they will do the bare minimum, no matter the situation. why? because the game lets them, the game lets the lazy be carried. Since it is not needed to put in full effort to clear, why put in the full effort? Many have that view. You need to make the game harder or have tutorial requirements. People do not know they are bad because they are clearing stuff and think they are playing things right

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

You are oversimplifying though. It's not just hit 1-2-3. You have to also deal with how large a group of mobs are, you have to make sure they are facing the correct direction when maintaining aggro, you have to deal with the occasional aoe requiring you to move, you have to make sure your hotbar is set up correctly so you can use those skills efficiently, you have to actually know what those skills do, you have to understand what the tool tip is telling you and so on. It's not just 1-2-3. For people like me, it can just be too much.

I am not saying that lazy play doesn't happen. However to think that bad players are ONLY just lazy players is a bad generalization and discredits the claim. It's like saying "Some of these apples have worms in them so ALL apples must have worms in it." It's faulty logic and doesn't support the claim. There may be more factors going on then what appears on your screen.

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I think it is all related to lazyness, even if more indirectly. Lazyness of not asking for tips, lazyness not looking up information, lazyness of not reading tips. This game appeals to seems to be wants to be open for everyone. Well if it is going to be made for everyone, you need Tutorials to be explained in a way to people that never played a game before. I did get in a low level group once where this mentor was trying to explain to this new tank how to play. After a while they where having problems because they never played a game before, let alone MNORPG. Maybe there can be a prompt giving extra optional Tutorials to do. I do not mean the hall of novice and it does take a bit to understand it. I mean before you even see the first cut scene, "Would you like to see basic tips of the game ? (This is a good idea to hit yes if you never played a MNORPG before)"

It really should not take much thought to face monsters away from the party because of cleaves, or you need the monsters be packed tightly together for some aoes have a small radius. Can you explain more in detail why tank scares you? maybe we can think of putting something in the game to encourage more tanks because we all know there is a shortage of them, and every bit helps.

I mean it is why I made this thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...able-to-use-DF.

Maybe you be fine with tanking if there was something you could interact with to show you. I do not think the current hall of novice really shows what people expect you to do when our ilevel 310 or w/e