We're all DDs now >.>

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Originally Posted by Aramina

It's less about talking to Kisai and more about talking around her to people that may actually listen to that garbage and not know any better.

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This is the thing that worries me. Stupid is just annoying when isolated, however stupid becomes dangerous when there is a possibility of it being listened to.

this is all because of WoW players who crept into FF14

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Originally Posted by Aramina

It's less about talking to Kisai and more about talking around her to people that may actually listen to that garbage and not know any better.

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This, I said something like this to someone in the horror story thread too. I said something on the likes of why didn't you tell the person off saying you where not healing when you where doing all the healing and still dps here and there? the answer was something on the lines of "they would not listen anyway" so my reply to that was "It does not matter, the goal of saying something is not for that one person, but the other 6 there. If you said something, it is very unlikely they would kick you. Sometimes people follow others for no reason and easily manipulated."

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Originally Posted by SonTensei

this is all because of WoW players who crept into FF14

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The game that doesn't require, encourage, or have nearly as much downtime as here causes this?* You are going to have to explain your logic on that one.

*Outside Mythic raiding and/or Mythic+ dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

This, I said something like this to someone in the horror story thread too. I said something on the likes of why didn't you tell the person off saying you where not healing when you where doing all the healing and still dps here and there? the answer was something on the lines of "they would not listen anyway" so my reply to that was "It does not matter, the goal of saying something is not for that one person, but the other 6 there. If you said something, it is very unlikely they would kick you. Sometimes people follow others for no reason and easily manipulated."

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Yep. Aditionally, if you don't stand up for yourself they may well think whatever the other person said was true. :P

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Originally Posted by SonTensei

this is all because of WoW players who crept into FF14

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The healing experiences in these two games are vastly different...

WoW also tends to set higher requirements on healing and mitigation, and gives a greater extent by which additional healing can compensate for missed mitigation, than XIV. In effect, it takes longer for DPS to become the leading concern.

If anything, a migration of WoW players would simply have people insisting on playing with care to avoidable damage (though avoidable deaths no more so than any other player) as not to run out of healer mana, since death by attrition has been a more obvious possibility there. Here, our ranged have arguably spoiled us.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

That is bad healing, has nothing to do with cleric stance, it is only 5 seconds. Only time I see that is in 24 man DFs like dun or city, so sick of co healers making me do all the work because they can't cast an aoe heal here or there. Please do not misblame bad players on an ability -.- be no different them me saying we need to get rid of DPS stances in tanks because most can't hold hate and use DPS stance when tank stance is needed. How come more don't jump on that? Why do people finger point cleric so much?

Cleric stance is not to blame, I say "Help me heal" not flip out on cleric. I also seen pure healers lack skill in healing and had same thing "sitting at half health or lower for 30s or so prior to an unavoidable mechanic" making me stress all my abilities solo healing to keep people up. Most notable is that peity melded whm that called me rude for asking for help to raise people when I am sitting at 0-2000 mp with them 8000+/16000 with me blowing stuff like Dissipation for a small mp gain.

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I'm not blaming the skill at all. While I main MCH, I do play SCH quite a bit, and I do DPS a lot. I was just saying that because of the "healers have to DPS" mentality that a lot of the playerbase has, there are an abundance of healers such as that where they end up DPSing more than healing. It's all about DPSing at the right time and place, but it's getting harder and harder to find healers in DF content that realize that. Yes, those healers are absolutely bad healers as a result. My point was that the community's mentality that I've seen more than a few times of "if you're not DPSing, you're a bad healer" is what has created such players.....

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Originally Posted by Gamer3427

I'm not blaming the skill at all. While I main MCH, I do play SCH quite a bit, and I do DPS a lot. I was just saying that because of the "healers have to DPS" mentality that a lot of the playerbase has, there are an abundance of healers such as that where they end up DPSing more than healing. It's all about DPSing at the right time and place, but it's getting harder and harder to find healers in DF content that realize that. Yes, those healers are absolutely bad healers as a result. My point was that the community's mentality that I've seen more than a few times of "if you're not DPSing, you're a bad healer" is what has created such players.....

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If the typical instance allows more globals of DPS than healing, it seems kind of strange to be looking for the globals capable of DPS rather than the globals that will require healing. Make damage prediction the part strategized around, and DPS the norm, and I'm pretty sure one's combined output would improve. One shouldn't be waiting for damage, and swapping over to DPSing when they think nothing's likely to happen. They should know. That is the goal. All meaningful damage in this game is by-event.

The only point of hesitation ought to be in the single global of Cleric that one would waste in order not to be locked out on the next if there's about to be avoidable damage that must be made up for in that GCD and that you do not trust your entire team to avoid. In these cases, however, one can still refresh HoTs or otherwise make any use of the GCD that would not waste mana on a crippled offensive cast.

Now even those junctions, maybe 3 per fight with unreliable—but not so poor as to assume failure to dodge—group, are gone. Yet the "healers should only be focused on healing" false ultimatum will remain. Any good healer should know when and what must be healed, and how to time the GCDs between where healing is necessary and healing can be prepped as to make the most efficient use of each (e.g. wasting up to one tick of a HoT in favor of gaining 2-3 ticks of DoT before necessary direct healing globals).

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Originally Posted by missybee

I think y'all might make more progress talking to a literal brick wall.

That being said, even at minimum ilevel, there should be down time for healers. Maybe not during large pulls, but at the VERY least during bosses. No one is asking to be carried by healers. We just want everyone in the party to contribute equally.

With regard to needing a parser to know whether or not the healer is attempting to DPS - what even?

It isn't a secret when healers are casting and/or they go into Cleric Stance. Even come 4.0 with the Cleric Stance changes, we can still see their cast bars and rocks hitting the mobs.

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OH REALLY~?

So tell me how these so called "I have more DPS as a healer than the DPS characters" people are keeping track of these numbers then? Are they frame-by-frame counting everything they see while playing the dungeon they are recording? Absolute nonsense. There is a website out there that people have been using to log their parsers, and they are not shy about using them.

The cleric stance or rocks hitting the mobs doesn't tell you anything about zero-cast's like benediction, assize and tetra, or anything swiftcast'd. It's easy to tell when the healer is doing healing because half the things they can do are HoT's and have indications that hey are active. You don't know if they threw Stone III once or 20 times during that encounter unless you were parsing it.

So please, all the people I see arguing for healers to DPS and bragging about how good they are at it, are almost guaranteed to be using parsers.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

snip

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https://media1.giphy.com/media/jQmVFypWInKCc/giphy.gif

As a tank myself, I think I know when a healers heals hit me, and as the regen is placed on...... me, I kinda know which HoTs are being used and how much downtime the healer has. I know what heals they do because I watch them. I don't have a parser, especially when I play on my PS4, and I still know what you are doing, funny that.

Your replies are getting more and more hilarious, keep it up :P


Edit: forgot to mention that all abilities, even bene, tetra, and assize have animations, its not hard to work out, especially when the it is being used on me.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

The cleric stance or rocks hitting the mobs doesn't tell you anything about zero-cast's like benediction, assize and tetra, or anything swiftcast'd. It's easy to tell when the healer is doing healing because half the things they can do are HoT's and have indications that hey are active. You don't know if they threw Stone III once or 20 times during that encounter unless you were parsing it.

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Stone 3 has a castbar. And just like HoTs, the Aeros also have DoT timers. Holy, Assize and Aero III are pretty hard to miss just because the animations are massive. While the exact number might be hard to tell, it's pretty easy to tell the difference between zero and something.

It's much harder to tell what the DPS classes are doing, especially melee, although you can still follow their buff management. Healers and Casters are easy because of the castbars.