Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

"Before we added ninja, monk was clearly the better DPS but had a way higher skill ceiling so this difference was ok."

quotes like this from yoshida worry me

honestly all dps played perfectly should either be similar in dps to each other or bring some kind of utility to balance out the lack of dps

this monk has a higher "skill ceiling" then they can be the better dps I really do not like

a skilled player can reach the skill ceiling of all three melee classes so at that point, you have to play monk because it's the better class according to yoshida

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Exactly, and for any hardcore endgame raider, the skill ceiling is not exactly hard to reach.

Yea I didn't like it either. I agree that all DPS should be similar regardless of skill ceiling, because a truly skilled player will be maximize the potential a class can do, regardless of whether or not the class is harder to play.

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Originally Posted by Decrith

Yea I didn't like it either. I agree that all DPS should be similar regardless of skill ceiling, because a truly skilled player will be maximize the potential a class can do, regardless of whether or not the class is harder to play.

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And isn't this exactly why they nerfed Ninja? Because the skill ceiling was easier reached than they had thought? Raise the skill ceiling on Dragoon, reward skillful play, punish bad play.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

On a side note, this will also make MNKs dps more deserved since now they are the only ones who have to deal with this.

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Don't jump the gun.

They will probably do to DRG the exact thing as MNK. They will let the positional hit, and you gain the buff, but it will do less than if you hit it from the flank/rear.

I completely cannot see them making it so it does the same, no matter where you hit it from.

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Originally Posted by HulveinBlitz

Don't jump the gun.

They will probably do to DRG the exact thing as MNK. They will let the positional hit, and you gain the buff, but it will do less than if you hit it from the flank/rear.

I completely cannot see them making it so it does the same, no matter where you hit it from.

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Oh thats what i think as well. Its going to work like MNKs like you say, however the lower number of postionals will make it have a rather low effect on overall dps. Pretty much would be a potential loss of 70 potency every 20 seconds and 80 potency every 30 seonds.

I disagree, I think it'll be just like the Monks where you get a potency buff on the hit itself on said positionals, the bleed and HT effects will remain unchanged no matter where it is struck.

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Originally Posted by CesarLongsword

like for example in t10, my group tanks the boss on top of the ground lightning aoe. so if i use any jump i am dragged into that aoe for half a second and depending on how universal dot ticks happen i can end up dead when that tick dmg is coupled with another mechanic. i try to save jumps for when i have second wind or bloodbath ready so i dont die, but if the way to increase dps is by using jumps more often, it will just end with more "Loldrg".

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I do not mean to offend, but it just sounds like you need to learn your timings a bit better, ie. Don't jump when its not safe, and hold some restraint. I know exactly what your talking about with the lightning in T10. What I do is just don't chance it until after Heat Lightning and Prey

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Originally Posted by Daweism

And isn't this exactly why they nerfed Ninja? Because the skill ceiling was easier reached than they had thought? Raise the skill ceiling on Dragoon, reward skillful play, punish bad play.

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No there nerffing Ninja because the players use a rotation that the developers did not think of, and because of this Ninjas are doing more damage than intended. So instead of butchering the already community establish rotation, there just doing some small global nerfs.

Personally I'm putting all my faith on those DoT potency buffs, they -could- potentially save the DRGs, I also like it because I feel the DPS drop would be lower when unable to directly attack the target... But that would probably require quite a boost.

As for HT positional, it has never been that big of a concern to me, but it is annoying when you won't get it to go off when the target decides to turn around suddenly, or the tank is being a derp.

The reason why DRG DPS bugs me is their lack of utility, other classes come with support skills, so it's like an insult to injury when I can't beat a MNK/NIN in DPS despite my best efforts, and don't have anything else to bring on the field. DRGs are pretty much pure DPS, and can't even do that right.

at this point, if all they change is that we still get effect if we miss positionals, we will ONLY lose out on like 20 dps over 8minutes.

I did 50 dps with HT and impulse combined over 8 minutes at the avatar. Assuming lose of potency by missing EVERY positionals and no echo, that is about 20 DPS.

This means that the skilled dragoon that hits EVERY positional would have done 20 more dps than the dragoon that did not hit ANY. Hitting positionals would not be rewarded enough. We're not monks with 6 skills with positionals that we constantly need to hit.

I wouldn't have switched to monk if we didn't get buffed but if it comes out like this and we end up like monks without greased lightning and become a super easy class then yeah, I rather monk.