Would you like an in-game parser?

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Enemies* btw

Randomly suggesting corrections on anything to strangers on the internet can do that though. It's nothing to do with parsers in particular.

For instance, grammar police as I exemplify.

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Microsoft Spell check for the win.

And your comparing a computer forum post to a game. Nice try...but apple to oranges.

I would like a PERSONAL in-game parser. So I can improve my rotations and see where I'm going wrong or going right.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Microsoft Spell check for the win.

And your comparing a computer forum post to a game. Nice try...but apple to oranges.

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Nope, I'm comparing one internet interaction to another.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

sorry, but anything short of high-difficulty content is not going to provide a lot of self-improvement...

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Where exactly in my post did I specify which content I want to be more difficult (Less brain dead)?
I said it in a general term. As in everything needs to be considered, from solo content to group content.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

... no one wants to look bad ... That's why they will try to get better once they see they do poorly. It's called a "shock therapy"... it is the quickest and most effective way to get better. The drawback is clear however that people with certain social or mental issues, like social anxiety or depression, may go the other way around.

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I understand what you are saying but sadly I rarely see this happening in-game.
I'll give you an example. When someone is failing mechanics a lot or not using some of their skills/abilities and gets called out for it. What do you usually see them do?
They either, defend themselves or rage quit. You'll rarely see someone apologizing and willing to learn. We even have a popular topic about these encounters in the forums.

So letting people know that they are doing something bad isn't always going to make them want to improve. Not with the 'you don't pay my sub' mentality.

By making parse public we will improve in the long run, but we'll go through a very harsh phase where kicking dead weight is allowed. Which is what the dev team don't want. Thus why they are trying to close the gap between good players and bad players first.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Nope, I'm comparing one internet interaction to another.

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There is a big difference between a forum post - and a 15-45min instance in-game.

But since you like saying this apple is an orange...up to you.

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Originally Posted by Mature

I would like a PERSONAL in-game parser. So I can improve my rotations and see where I'm going wrong or going right.

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I believe I was informed by my mentor that "PERSONAL" use is OK....and readily available.

My problem is the one where people turn it into a baseball bat and beat you over the head over with it.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

There is a big difference between a forum post - and a 15-45min instance in-game.

But since you like saying this apple is an orange...up to you.

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There are differences, but there are similarities too.

In both interactions its easy to provoke anger through being a nitpick. Whether it's nitpicking spelling or nitpicking dps; in both cases one can have an off day and in both cases if nagged about it will only turn the person in question hostile.

To finish the adage: apples and oranges are both fruit, both grown from trees, and both can be big enough to fit in one's hand.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

There are differences, but there are similarities too.

In both interactions its easy to provoke anger through being a nitpick. Whether it's nitpicking spelling or nitpicking dps; in both cases one can have an off day and in both cases if nagged about it will only turn the person in question hostile.

To finish the adage: apples and oranges are both fruit, both grown from trees, and both can be big enough to fit in one's hand.

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If you had read my initial post about parser's.....you'd see I'm not talking about "nit-picking"

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

If you had read my initial post about parser's.....you'd see I'm not talking about "nit-picking"

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Honest question; Is the dps bad if a whm does more dps? Second, do you think you are a good whm?

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Originally Posted by Yeol

Where exactly in my post did I specify which content I want to be more difficult (Less brain dead)?

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Well, many people that have issues and actually need to improve themselves just won't do the difficult content that they could improve in. This game is very casual friendly, and that have both its ups and downs in that respect.


I said it in a general term. As in everything needs to be considered, from solo content to group content.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

I understand what you are saying but sadly I rarely see this happening in-game.

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Yes, unfortunately. However, that is partially because they know that even if that one party won't finish the duty with them, the next one will, or the one after that. If they had little option but to get better or get locked out, they would actually try to get better, even if just enough to "pass" the "basic effort" the parties would expect.

As I said, it may have many bad effects for certain people, but there are many bad effects for certain people with how the way it is now as well. And the way that most people are held back, often without even knowing that, is even bigger problem.

Just start banning people that ask for one, even. It will make nothing better. Toxic jerks will just get worse and people that already don't care about their DPS aren't going to start caring just because it's there.

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Originally Posted by Casanters

Just start banning people that ask for one, even.

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Originally Posted by Casanters

Toxic jerks

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Oh the irony! :D

Funny thing how some people say that parser is bad, cuz it will make obvious who is slacking. But it's completely nice to be useless and not wanting to improve and being a burden to any group they join to.
You might not care about how much dps you do, but if you're doing less dps than a healer dungeon after dungeon for a long time you should be punished :\
If game had some kind of rankings for each memeber it would make people want to get higher score and potentially get better.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Yes, unfortunately. However, that is partially because they know that even if that one party won't finish the duty with them, the next one will, or the one after that. If they had little option but to get better or get locked out, they would actually try to get better, even if just enough to "pass" the "basic effort" the parties would expect.

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No, I don't think that would work. The problem is that "git gud" process of everyone kicking them would be unpleasant enough to make them quit before getting gud. No one is forced to keep playing this game, and simply making things unpleasant for someone doesn't make them want to self-improve.

If it's completely un-communicatable sure; ie, the information can't be broadcasted over chat channels as some sort of E-Peen, Bash or Gloat stick. I'd have no problems with it. Otherwise no, it's unneeded. It would just become a tool to bash people over the head with. If that's something you want, then that game already exists, it's called WoW.

And before anyone makes any claims that people wouldn't abuse it, need I mention the Mentor channels on some servers? Some of them are absolute cesspools.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

I'm not in the mood to be judged...I play the game for fun.

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And my fun comes from clearing content. You know what wasn't fun? A Warrior in V4S the other day who pulled less than 1,900 DPS with full 340 gear who at times was getting outdps'd by the White Mage. After almost a hour of him making mistakes or straight losing hate due to his low job, we had to kick him, though he actually left of his own accord right away. Nice enough guy, I'll admit and I bare him no ill-will, but it wasn't fun for the rest of us wiping to Exdeath over and over. The Paladin made no secret he was parsing either nor was he rude about it, just very blunt. Which brings me to...

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Most of the talk I see from the pro parser community correlates to weeding out bad players, saving time, lowering frustations... etc... Very rarely do you run into an actual conversation promoting parsers as a tool for self improvement which is the only conversation I actually care about in regards to them. I feel like for this reason they ultimately are their own enemies and fuel the very people they are against..

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Why can it not be both? Parses have been invaluable to my own self improvement since I started raiding last tier. At the same time, I do not appreciate my time wasted by people who join parties clearly labeled farm/weekly clear and have no idea what they're doing. A few mistakes or less than stellar damage? Sure. I couldn't care less if you can't top 5,000. In fact, I had a Dragoon last night who was averaging just below 4k at roughly 330 or so. Had no issues with him whatsoever. I take issue with the aforementioned Warrior. Why wouldn't we want to "lower frustrations?" Once again, I wouldn't go into a learning party and expect everyone to be performing flawlessly nor do I expect oranges in a farm. What I do think is reasonable is for me on Dark Knight to not out-dps a Bard or Monk.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

I'm not in the mood to be judged...I play the game for fun. Iay.

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You also forget that 3/7/23 people wants fun too. In a pve game like FF14 the goal is to clear the content, you take away the fun by wiping them, not doing what you are supposed to etc. So to me this sounds pretty selfish if anything. Just my 5 cents.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Why can it not be both? Parses have been invaluable to my own self improvement since I started raiding last tier. At the same time, I do not appreciate my time wasted by people who join parties clearly labeled farm/weekly clear and have no idea what they're doing. A few mistakes or less than stellar damage? Sure. I couldn't care less if you can't top 5,000. In fact, I had a Dragoon last night who was averaging just below 4k at roughly 330 or so. Had no issues with him whatsoever. I take issue with the aforementioned Warrior. Why wouldn't we want to "lower frustrations?" Once again, I wouldn't go into a learning party and expect everyone to be performing flawlessly nor do I expect oranges in a farm. What I do think is reasonable is for me on Dark Knight to not out-dps a Bard or Monk.

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It can be both but I'd rather focus on personal parser conversations leaning toward overall player skill improvement and a smaller gap between low and high skilled players instead. Personal parsers have the potential to help in that regard and I think this kind of conversation is the most beneficial thing to bring to the table if you want to bring parsers into the game or sway an opinion. Maybe its not what your saying, its how your saying it. Why focus on the fact that you are using it to single players out? That player may have been better in the first place with a personal parser, even if not at least you'd know at that point. I feel like I've said this to you before in this thread or another.

Bottom line, a conversation about removing problem players to save you some time doesn't sound nearly as appealing as a conversation about how he may have benefited from the use of a personal parser and been a better player from the start if the goal is to bring one into the game. Just my opinion anyway.

I would agree something like a target dummy that gave you a set time (1 minute?) to do all the damage you can dish out and give you a personal non shareable report that's not link-able or able to click and paste the results for your eyes only. Something along those lines could prove useful for personal data and improvement. However, anything more would cause excessive toxicity and split the community in a bad way.

I like how people think adding an official parser in a game where people are already using parsers is going to make it toxic when most of the toxicity is coming from casual players who probably aren't even using parsers.

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Originally Posted by Dragonrage53

and split the community in a bad way.

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Non parser or better yet people not willing to learn or actually drag people down already do this. Exampel today:
https://i.imgur.com/JWj8qyz.png
Someone in the group asked the person who said they know the fight in a farm group, given chance to forfill their role and actually not wipe us. After 3 wipes, they asked the person how the mechanic works and they replied with - as you can see here ''ignore you and learn the mechanics''. Those people gladly split the community alone, you don't need a parser to do that. This is a brutal honest example of how many anti parser think is acceptable too. And this was supposed to be a farm group. Now imagine many times in the days when sephirot extreme was still fresh, people hit ENRAGE multiply times, yet there is
7PLD and 1 SCH beating it before enrage and look at the date too... Don't you think that people who gladly are unwilling to learn to play, already split themselves from others? You can see it here on the forum, reddit etc. And you can probably tell by my post, I don't think it's acceptable. How can 7 PLD and 1 SCH beat sephirot extreme? You can explain and then explain why 4 dps couldn't do it.

Video of 7 pld and 1 sch

No in game parser unless it only shows your dps and nobody elses and only to you.

I would actually like to have a solo in-game parser. I think that would be pretty nice, then I could compare myself to other players in the same role, and upload my own numbers into Fflogs.

I say this as I realize that I haven't been parsed in about a month, and the majority of my other ones came back in October. So yeah...I want a solo parser.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

No in game parser unless it only shows your dps and nobody elses and only to you.

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So let's say you find out later on a tank did more than you, like he actually says his number in the group. What would your response be as a DPS?

Yes so I can measure myself easier / better.

One of the reasons I like to play MMO's is because you get better, your ilvl goes up and I always strive to become a better player, increase my skill, part of that is also increasing the amount of damage I deal regardless the fact that I'm a tank, we deal damage too and I always strive to take the maximum out of it.
At least we have ACT but an official in-game parser would be easier (and maybe more accurate), like there's not really an open API where the addons can take info from (which is also the reason why there are basically no addons for this game)?

I don't really see why this is a problem, is there something wrong with me for liking to improve myself and like having a number to show my DPS and how much it goes higher as my ilvl and my skill to play the job better improves?

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

I like how people think adding an official parser in a game where people are already using parsers is going to make it toxic when most of the toxicity is coming from casual players who probably aren't even using parsers.

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Case in point, I was attempting to farm Shinryu yesterday and we got a mouthy MCH who called out a few people and had the gull to claim if people didn't die we'd skip the second Tidal Wave. The Monk, who died twice, still out-DPS'd him. And when I looked over their gear, said Monk was full 320 crafted while the MCH was various bits of 330-340 and I think one 320 ring. Clearly he wasn't parsing or he'd have kept his mouth shut. Amusingly, no one died on a subsequent pull and we didn't skip that Tidal Wave. Granted, since the healers weren't DPSing at all, it didn't help. That being said, it just goes to show the people often whining aren't the ones parsing.

no need parsers ingame, it's either kill or be killed, if u kill before u get killed then you good, if u get killed before killing then improve. "how to improve then?" that's your problem, stop cry like babies, no talk and git gud.

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Originally Posted by Mirch

no need parsers ingame, it's either kill or be killed, if u kill before u get killed then you good, if u get killed before killing then improve. "how to improve then?" that's your problem, stop cry like babies, no talk and git gud.

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I wil say it again, most content can be done with 7. Even 2 players can have 1k to 1.5k dps less than 2 top dps and they can still beat the content. That's not the case here. People need to stop leeching.
Also when i farm, i rather 6 min runs over 10 min runs, by the time i did 2 runs on 6 min im doing 3-4 on the 10 min run. Also another example is, when you do content its team effort, not to put burden on some other players because you think its okay to do, so no buddy, you are very wrong.

For Dungeons, 24mans and Trials i wouldn't like an ingame parsing tool including leaderboards and personal rankings.

For normal Raid and SSS i would like an ingame parsing tool with full analysing possibilities from fflogs for personal only, including anonym leaderboards and personal rankings.

For Savage, Ex Trials and Ultimate I would like an ingame parsing option including the full analysing possibilities from fflogs and a full replay option with free camera movement. Including anonym Leaderboards and Rankings.

If an analysing possibility like fflogs is not included the complete parsing has no value and is only for e-peen stroking.

If i give a tool to the community it is their responsibility to use it like intended and they have to face the consequences of missuse and abuse.

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Originally Posted by Mirch

no need parsers ingame, it's either kill or be killed, if u kill before u get killed then you good, if u get killed before killing then improve. "how to improve then?" that's your problem, stop cry like babies, no talk and git gud.

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Uh...no. Parsers are to help you improve your own DPS. Obviously, it's kill or be killed - you don't need a parser to tell you that. But a lot of players want to improve their own personal DPS. And need I remind you that you don't necessarily have to be at fault in order to be killed. O2S and O3S make it perfectly clear that one person can easily cause a raid to completely wipe. It's not a simple black and white solution.

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Originally Posted by Mirch

no need parsers ingame, it's either kill or be killed, if u kill before u get killed then you good, if u get killed before killing then improve. "how to improve then?" that's your problem, stop cry like babies, no talk and git gud.

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This really made my day. It's as if you had no clue about what you're talking about and still manage to insert a "git gud". Amazing.

I personally think that PC users got an advantage over PS4 ones.

Having the ability to actually SEE how much damage you are executing against a Mob gives them the upper hand to improve.

We PS4 user have to guess how well we are doing. Because we have no means of ACTUALLY knowing have well we are doing.

Yes , we have SSS but in an actual fight things change. For example, on ex death as a SMN , as a PS4 user I don't know if getting bahamut out before tentacles is a dps increase or a DPS loss than getting him out after flares? At the moment we are guessing but without actual numbers I have no idea but going for what I think is best.

I'm ALL in for a personal parser.

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Originally Posted by Mature

snip

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I know a lot of PS4 players feeling that way too. ACT may not be an official parser but it's tolerated and does give a non negligible advantage for PC players to improve.
Just for the sake of equality, SE should provide at least a tool to allow PS4 players to access dps, crit percentages, Hps over a fight and more if possible.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Honest question; Is the dps bad if a whm does more dps? Second, do you think you are a good whm?

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You cant really take only healer-dps to compare healer. You need to combine HPS + DPS to compare them. Like 1 dps=2.4 points, 1 hps = 1 point, then add the points and compare them to the points of an different healer.

Man i would like something like this ingame.

And to stay on topic: I would like to know where i stand against other players. It helps me to improve.

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

If it's completely un-communicatable sure; ie, the information can't be broadcasted over chat channels as some sort of E-Peen, Bash or Gloat stick. I'd have no problems with it. Otherwise no, it's unneeded. It would just become a tool to bash people over the head with. If that's something you want, then that game already exists, it's called WoW.

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When did you play wow the last time ? In all the years playing WoW, the parser was no Problem. Most of the time the logs got posted because someone asked, and it's not like that many people care (Most use their own logs..) And in WoW, the game where you could use an parser on day one (or when mods got introduced, i dont remember), no one moans because of the parser, because there is no problem, simple as that.

No one get kicked or harrased for doing 20% less damage than the next dps, because no one really cares (Except in high end raids...).

People only care for the dps who do 50% of the damage of the standard tank (i dont talk about that tanks who pull 3.5-4.0k overall dps in 4 player instances) And in my opinion, then it's ok to say something. Because, sure, i dont pay the sub of the "500 DPS" players, but they dont pay mine also.

Why should an parser be an problem in FF14, where the playerbase is more mature as in WoW, if the parser is NO problem in said WoW ?

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Originally Posted by Mirch

no need parsers ingame, it's either kill or be killed, if u kill before u get killed then you good, if u get killed before killing then improve. "how to improve then?" that's your problem, stop cry like babies, no talk and git gud.

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Remember kids, only the pro parser crowd is screaming "git gud" while being toxic.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Honest question; Is the dps bad if a whm does more dps? Second, do you think you are a good whm?

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1: That kind of question is a loaded gun to me. White Mage's are notoriously strong dps for what they do - and tend to out DPS most classes in several situations. However, compared to say a Black Mage? Not so great, Black Mages don't have to worry about running out of mana provided to flip umbral every so often. White Mages have to rely on Lucid Dream/Thin Air which cool down every 120s or so which can be tricky as your rolling dice that you wont need that when you burn them. Etc..etc...

In short - so long as DPS is doing the best they can (and I'm not expecting perfection) - even at mediocre damage - I'm OK.
Now in an ultimate/savage situation? Id expect them to be on their A Game.

2: On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being best) - Id say I'm a 7...sometimes an 8. I consider myself a competent White Mage..maybe good enough to consider serious things like savage/ultimate...but I would also say there's always room for improvement... and I don't think a parser will tell me jack...because a lot of my problem is timing and coordination. Dyslexia is a ####. :)

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

No in game parser unless it only shows your dps and nobody elses and only to you.

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That's impossible because of the way jobs /party members affect each other's damage.

And if you don't have information on the rest of the party any number you have for yourself is meaningless.

Quite a substantial chunk of your dps is not down to you but down to the rest of that party. Your sams dps might for example be 200 higher or lower from one fight to the next simply because a ninja used trick attack differently or maybe there wasn't a ninja last time at all. Or there was last time and then he dropped and was replaced by a blm. The same could be said for most jobs. Ast cards might give you another 200 dps. A brd another 200. So Even if you played exactly the same and had a personal parse that didn't tell you anything about the rest of the party. you would see such varied results from fight to fight that you could not hope to male an accurate comparison or conclusion.

You simply cannot have an accurate personal parse if you exclude information about the rest of the party. And if it's not accurate then it's entirely useless.

Party composition has a very significant impact on your own dps. So if you want accuracy you need all the parties information not just a fraction of it

Parsers in WoW wasnt a real issue.
Most people know the content they are going. Why asking a 99% perfect for LFR? Most people have 1 will = killing the bosses. I did so many run in PU during the currect expansion, in normal mode, with some people with trash DPS... was not the only one to see, but boss died, the top players of the raid didnt care about the low one. And most smart groups didnt cry when they was a little wipe after 5 boss kills. Less spoke, more play, faster ended... Better than raging, kicking/leaving, and find other people.
When it become hard to go thru bosses, yes, parsers help to get out some people, but even in those case, it is the really bad players that are kicked (those who does 50% the DPS they could with their stuff... ) So... is it a real matter?



Sometime, there is silly people, yes but their game is harder, they are raging puppies, and not because you are elitist you go faster than others... sometime slower...


BTW... ACT exist, it is forbidden in the ToS but tolerate. results?
1) PC players get the tool, and can get toxic with if they want.
2) PC players get the tool, they can use it for personnal purpose, and use it to work their DPS. gaining 1% after 1%.

PC > PS4...

The main reason i want a parser ingame is there. (And also, it will be better than tier program. more accurate)
the toxicity matters is only for a team parser? Do individual parser, a system that only show your own damages. Would be silly (some things are shown in others parse) but would be GREATLY better than now. (and in a static team, you have always same teammates, so there is less variation due to other teammates)

People dont need parsers to be silly and kick nobrain other people... And personnal parser avoid to add a reason...

For those who says "if you dont know how to improve yourself, go read guide" . You know guide are written by people who are... experiencing? with parsers? ...

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Party composition has a very significant impact on your own dps. So if you want accuracy you need all the parties information not just a fraction of it

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This.
Another clear example of personal DPS gain is Bard. Doing SSS V4s , a full 340 bis bard can pull up to 21/23sc left which is around 4.4k tops (without rng crits ,pots or food). But if you actually go into the fight you might be doing less damage BUT because of the party buffs you can pull a MUCH higher dps then your own SSS parsing.
Having the right party composition can increase your own DPS in huge proportions (using the same example with Bard, having a SCH,AST,DRG will make your Bard DPS increase in a ridiculous way)

But of course if we don't have a parsing , how do we know?

Another reason why we need a personal parsing.

Tbh without one there wouldn't be any guides in YouTube telling you when to execute certain CD etcs.

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Originally Posted by Mature

This.
Another clear example of personal DPS gain is Bard. Doing SSS V4s , a full 340 bis bard can pull up to 21/23sc left which is around 4.4k tops (without rng crits ,pots or food). But if you actually go into the fight you might be doing less damage BUT because of the party buffs you can pull a MUCH higher dps then your own SSS parsing.
Having the right party composition can increase your own DPS in huge proportions (using the same example with Bard, having a SCH,AST,DRG will make your Bard DPS increase in a ridiculous way)

But of course if we don't have a parsing , how do we know?

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OK without meaning to sound harsh or anything your post makes no sense and has confused me a bit.

The bit above basically agrees with why I said personal parsing wouldn't work because you've given an example of how party composition can really impact your numbers which is exactly the reason a personal parse wouldn't work.

then you decided to finish your post with

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Originally Posted by Mature

Another reason why we need a personal parsing.

Tbh without one there wouldn't be any guides in YouTube telling you when to execute certain CD etcs.

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You've just agreed with me and said personal parsing wouldn't work... and if it won't work why do players need it. it's useless to them?

staying with your example if a personal parse isn't going to tell you what that ast sch or dragoon is doing how are you going to get an accurate and meaningful representation of your dps and how those jobs affected it. you just can't.

and if a parse is going to tell you that information then its a group parse not a personal one.....