BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

Short answer; It doesn't need to be available for DF/Raid. It will be fine as is.

Long answer; Does anyone else remember what happened when Ninja was added to the game before an expansion? NOTHING but ninja everywhere for nearly a month. It made it impossible to use the duty finder as a dps and a lot, and I mean a lot of re balancing had to be done during that time when stuff should have been focused elsewhere. My assumption here is that they're trying to avoid that from happening again with it being limited for the time being. It gives the devs a chance to test waters with it, see what needs to be worked on and see how players react to it. For those whining that its not DF/Raid usable... so what? Learn the class up to the fifty point and maybe down the line it will be added as a class that can do whatever you want it to in 5.X but either way we've been needing more solo content for a while so just deal with it for the time being. We will see where SE takes it in the future.

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Originally Posted by jon041065

Does blu have to be that "something different"? Couldn't they have used onion knight or freelancer instead? Barely anyone of my side are saying there shouldn't be solo content or for what's coming in 4.5 to be removed. There were/are ways of making the solo content and full jobs. It will take longer for sure. Most on my side would be fine with waiting even if it took to 6.0 if we knew that a full version of blue mage was in the works.

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Blu was always a class that was handled differently than others in all previous iterations of the Final Fantasy series. Onion Knight was a 'jack of all trades' that didn't get strong from leveling up until the last 10-15 levels where the stat growth was crazy. Freelancer had ok-ish stats, but they never had any strengths besides having a wider range of armours and such to equip. Blu needed to either be hit by enemy skills, in one case eating the monster to learn its skill(s), or obtain rare item drops in order to learn the skills. Sure, you could do instance where you're fighting special monsters, and learn the skill based on pre set story stuff, but that takes a lot of the charm out of it.

They're designing Blu to be heavily solo based, and this could be a gateway class that could possibly open up a wider range of solo content for other classes. Can anyone on the forums say they know EXACTLY how Blu is gonna play out? No. We only know what we know from what little we've seen/heard, and what a lot of people are assuming.

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Originally Posted by jon041065

"Not everything has to be able to do certain things." okay so then what if you were told that they would never add solo content to the game because they didn't want to focus on that? Would you complain? Would "well not everything has to be able to do certain things" be a fair way to shut down requests for that type of content?

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An MMO can't exist without some kinds of solo content. A lack of it would make people play less while waiting on friends for group content, as well as driving away some of the more casual players.

And you're taking what I said as an unintended way. Not everything needs to be able to do everything. Crafting can only craft, and only kill super low level enemies. Gathering is the same, but with mining/botany/fishing. Is there any rule online that says a combat class can't be more solo play focused? Sure, some classes are 'better' at solo play, but even then there's not too much solo stuff to do in game. Relics we used to be able to do some of it solo, but with Eureka they pretty much killed that, forcing yet more heavy co-op stuff, when the previous relic phases just needed to be cleaned up a bit more to be more enjoyable and not just heavy grinding while losing your sanity. But they got SHOVED into heavy co-op, trying to do it solo now will just make want to see the world burn.

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Originally Posted by jon041065

That's fine if you haven't seen an idea you like. They are not making content for any single person. They should however be trying to have as large of a "net" as possible that is also strong enough to serve as a reason for many to keep subbing. If they did a version of a full blu job, there would be some that wouldn't like how SE made it. If there was enough that hated it, then it could be changed how smn, mch, and brd have been. How drk will be changed in 5.0 because of the SB version.

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There's people now who still refuse to play certain jobs because they don't like how SE handled them in this FF game. There's always going to people who hate X class. And who's to say how they 'should' be handling things, as you've worded here. I personally think they can't make a full fledged Blu class with the formula of XIV, and how they're having to recycle older skills to prevent skill bloat. Blu's signature style has always been a TON of monster skills. Unless they planned to give us a class quest for every skill we got, outside of 1-2 we'd need to use for basic stuff, again going by XIV's formula, they couldn't give us anywhere near the charm the class has had in the past. There's a ton of people who just flat out ignore the story and just see classes at 'yet one more to pick from to raid'.

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Originally Posted by jon041065

Okay, well "if you don't give enough players what they want, then there is not enough resources so no one truly gets what they want.". It's a bad idea in mmos to have a lot of segregated systems and content like this. How will resources be divided up between them all? What happens when players that enjoy one type of content have to wait multiple patches or a whole expac before what they like is updated? We should be pushing for more content that isn't restricted that appeals to more players and accept it if that requires a slower patch cycle or that some content takes a bit longer to be released.

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Is it factual that MMOs can't have segregated systems? No. Have we actually seen this in XIV? Possibly with PvP stuff, since they're still having to change that off and on to 'balance' it, with their ranking system being heavily flawed still. But because something can be messy, doesn't mean it should stop a company from trying something new.

A lot of people are mad that it doesn't fit their own version of a class. A lot of people are mad that it isn't just something that's been re-skinned and thrown into raid stuff. Hell, Summoner is still a class a lot of people are angry about because it doesn't meet the levels it was like in XI or previous FF games, and it's just a fraction of what it could have been.

And don't say what we should or should not be doing. Not one person speaks for everyone, myself included. I'm just saying what I think.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

A lot of people are mad that it doesn't fit their own version of a class. A lot of people are mad that it isn't just something that's been re-skinned and thrown into raid stuff. Hell, Summoner is still a class a lot of people are angry about because it doesn't meet the levels it was like in XI or previous FF games, and it's just a fraction of what it could have been.

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We are not mad because it doesnt fit our image of BLU. In fact, what we have seen was impressive. The trailer was hype as hell and the acquiring of skills was great. Im 100% sure it will be fun to play. But our issue is against the limited job concept itself and how it kills the dreams of those that wanted to main BLU.

- Skill acquiring is great and true to BLU image.
- The Masked Carnival is a nice addition.

What else is there for this job? Almost nothing.

- Level 50 cap, stuck in 2.0 era.
- no DF/ hard to party up.
- Limited access to other SOLO content in the game.
- once you finish collecting spells, and doing the Masked Carnival, you basically park it til next update 3-6 months later.

We didnt ask for a new triple triad feature in a different clothing. We want to play the damn game.

The Limited job concept itself is flawed and will leave us wanting for more. Dont encourage them to do more of that. Add solo content for already existing jobs instead. Or keep the masked carnival for BLU but increase its cap/unlock DF.
A good example is the mage tower challenge in wow legion (i know i know). That was a very well made solo content in a different mmo without limiting the classes.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

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I already know what onion knight and freelancer are and those jobs really have no way they could be put into the game except solo while blue mage has options.

We don't know beyond what they told us in the potentially misleading presentation.

https://i.imgur.com/2KkkZeN.png

This slide is what we are against. The majority of my side does not wish for solo content to be removed. We want restrictions removed. There's nothing wrong for some jobs to be more capable of soloing. We already have that. There's also nothing wrong with there being some crazy OP solo job. There is however, plenty of things wrong with a job being limited to "crazy OP solo job" when it it would be better suited as an option that players can choose. Options are a good thing. Needles restrictions are not.

There are not may players that are against there being solo content in the game. I'm all for it in the right context.

Check my posts here.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...44#post4825844

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ut-Beastmaster

They are already recycling skills for this iteration of blue mage. Most blue magic is just copy/paste of other spells with new skins or pulled from eureka. Also, most FF games do not have a large pool of blue magic spells. Most have been under 40. Only FFXI really had a massive pool of them.

I don't get why people say that the learning method would have to be job quests if they made a full version of blue mage. I don't buy into the "not having a spell so kicked" reasoning because if those players are that worried then make a premade group. But if there has to be some solution to this, then there are ways to make that work too. Completion of the Carnival could unlock the job in the rest of the game. There could be achievements tied to learning spells in a level range (there will probably be level requirements to learn them) that then unlock matchmaking for that level range. There could be level break quests like we had on XI and you can't start the quests until you know certain spells. For example, when you wanted to level past 25, a npc at the Carnival could tell you "hmm, you still need to study leafkin in the northshroud, the insects in central thanalan, and the crustaceans in lower la noscea".

I would have preferred a tank blu but here's my idea for how blu could be adjusted to be different from other jobs as well as ideas from some others.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l-Blu-Concepts

We are already seeing it. Content that they said they would be updating but it's just left there. Two egi glamours in a single patch yet they told us there would be more. There are already systems that are needing attention but don't get it. Should we add one for blue mage? Should we add more systems for additional limited jobs? Who gets priority then? This is why I'm in favor of something like onion knight/freelancer for the players wanting solo content. It might not scratch the itch for everyone but it has the potential for a much larger scope than just "enemy abilities" and therefore a larger "net".

I was stating what they should be trying to do as a business. Focusing something so desired as a blue mage on just a portion of your customers is not a good strategy if they want the game to thrive or even survive. Again, I'm not saying the crowd that wants solo content should be neglected. I'm advocating for us to find a middle ground and push for things for many types of players. Then we be patient while they work on delivering.

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Originally Posted by Zafran

We are not mad because it doesnt fit our image of BLU. In fact, what we have seen was impressive. The trailer was hype as hell and the acquiring of skills was great. Im 100% sure it will be fun to play. But our issue is against the limited job concept itself and how it kills the dreams of those that wanted to main BLU.

- Skill acquiring is great and true to BLU image.
- The Masked Carnival is a nice addition.

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100% Agreed

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Originally Posted by Zafran

What else is there for this job? Almost nothing.

- Level 50 cap, stuck in 2.0 era.
- no DF/ hard to party up.
- Limited access to other SOLO content in the game.
- once you finish collecting spells, and doing the Masked Carnival, you basically park it til next update 3-6 months later.

We didn't ask for a new triple triad feature in a different clothing. We want to play the damn game.

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Think of Blu as a Public Beta (Which it pretty much is), and we're getting to test it out in its starting stages. We should be happy they're giving anything big like this, since after Rogue/Ninja came out, they had said they regretted having a mid pre-expansion class drop because it unbalanced the DF. Everyone and their mothers just about was playing it.... myself included.

And it's more action filled than waiting for many of the unbalanced TT NPCs to take their turns.

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Originally Posted by Zafran

A good example is the mage tower challenge in wow legion (i know i know). That was a very well made solo content in a different mmo without limiting the classes.

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WoW is one of the MMOs I never bothered to play, due to before XIV, I didn't really have friends who were interested in online games like this, so I'll have to search that on youtube and give it a look.

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Originally Posted by jon041065

The majority of my side does not wish for solo content to be removed. We want restrictions removed.

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It's basically you are on their side, they're not on 'your side', as you put it. Like how I'm on the side that wants the Blu they're currently working on before any major overhauling. We don't know the full product, and they're being kind enough to give this to us before an expac drops, giving them some time to make some changes before/during the expac dropping

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Originally Posted by jon041065

I don't buy into the "not having a spell so kicked" reasoning because if those players are that worried then make a premade group. But if there has to be some solution to this, then there are ways to make that work too. Completion of the Carnival could unlock the job in the rest of the game.

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That would actually be interesting, if they do decide to handle it that way.

And I've been kicked for being new. I've been kicked for not knowing my rotation on a class I got freshly to 50. Warriors used to be kicked if they never learned Provoke originally. If someone can word something into 'they didn't match my playstyle', they can be kicked. People are worse when you don't see their faces.

Some players don't join FCs, and some players don't know many people in game, due to keeping quiet/just not being interested in mingling outside of what is needed.

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Originally Posted by jon041065

They are already recycling skills for this iteration of blue mage. Most blue magic is just copy/paste of other spells with new skins or pulled from eureka. Also, most FF games do not have a large pool of blue magic spells. Most have been under 40. Only FFXI really had a massive pool of them.

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Technically the skills were pulled from elsewhere and then put into Eureka. And it's still a total skill pool for them to possibly draw from, leaving us with around 200 plus-ish total blue mage skills used in FF games as a whole. They seem to be going with more famous/known skills, 1000 needles/bad breath/a few primal skills, from what we've seen, so more unique looks.

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Originally Posted by jon041065

I would have preferred a tank blu but here's my idea for how blu could be adjusted to be different from other jobs as well as ideas from some others.

There are not may players that are against there being solo content in the game. I'm all for it in the right context.

Check my posts here.

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I do agree that Onion Knight could be a great Solo class with skills that wouldn't work well in party content (aka op skills). I really don't think much could be said to make me prefer what I've seen from SE right now for Blu though. I've seen your post before about it, and I really didn't agree with it. It felt way too simple for Blu's overall feel.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

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Do you agree that they should be shooting for more than blue mage just being a solo job? Like having a toggle to turn on "broken mode" as a duty finder setting or straight up a 2nd job crystal for a version of blu that can work in the full game? That way no one loses.

Your first few posts didn't make me think you're someone that would want the middle ground but your last one here is making me reconsider that first impression.

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Originally Posted by jon041065

Do you agree that they should be shooting for more than blue mage just being a solo job? Like having a toggle to turn on "broken mode" as a duty finder setting or straight up a 2nd job crystal for a version of blu that can work in the full game? That way no one loses.

Your first few posts didn't make me think you're someone that would want the middle ground but your last one here is making me reconsider that first impression.

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I believe they should be focusing on what they want to show us first. Everything going with changing Blu should be saved until after we've had ample time to digest the class and fully think about it, instead of demanding changes before something even occured. We don't know what this new system could possibly open up in the future. Who knows, they could even make special group content that's only for Limited Jobs if they do well at making different ones in the future, maybe something to compete with friends/party members.

If, and only if, they decide to do the middle group to try to appease the majority by giving people 'a little bit of everything', I'll....'support', but there's a good chance I won't be anywhere near as happy as I am with what they've shown us. Mostly due to wanting a solo based class or two that actually are made for solo combat. If we get more than that when it'd be like all my namesdays have come at once.... so to speak.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

I believe they should be focusing on what they want to show us first. Everything going with changing Blu should be saved until after we've had ample time to digest the class and fully think about it, instead of demanding changes before something even occured. We don't know what this new system could possibly open up in the future. Who knows, they could even make special group content that's only for Limited Jobs if they do well at making different ones in the future, maybe something to compete with friends/party members.

If, and only if, they decide to do the middle group to try to appease the majority by giving people 'a little bit of everything', I'll....'support', but there's a good chance I won't be anywhere near as happy as I am with what they've shown us. Mostly due to wanting a solo based class or two that actually are made for solo combat. If we get more than that when it'd be like all my namesdays have come at once.... so to speak.

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First paragraph I have no problems with besides "limited job content". They should make a separate game then instead of having a huge side to the game that I doubt they would have the resources for and split the player base. There is no way to change things before 5.0 and probably a bit after that. In fact, I say that they should continue on with their current plan for blue mage. Put in the updates and make it full fleshed out. Just want them to also be working for a full version of the job to be added later on which would probably end up being a feature of the 6.0 expac.

You would be unhappy if there were two versions of blue mage or a toggle in DF to have the option of OP blue mage? Trying to make sure I understand since things wouldn't change for you and the others that want it as solo content.

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Originally Posted by otarolgam

The BLU will be able to raid once it reaches 80, it just won't be able to use duty finder for it.

JFC, this is such a non-issue.

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There is a really small chance that this limited job will reach max level in each expansion. Otherwise all the talk about it being overpowered for raids would have been useless because people could just do premade groups (which are kinda all that have a static) and kill any raid with death. That would mean that they would also have to make a raid with the overpowered blue in their mind which could make it badly balanced. Also if they somehow restrict blue here then why not for the rest of the games duty as well? So no I dont believe that we will get a lvl 80 Blue in the next expansion, because if they had planned it why not announce it that way from the start?

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Originally Posted by jon041065

First paragraph I have no problems with besides "limited job content". They should make a separate game then instead of having a huge side to the game that I doubt they would have the resources for and split the player base. There is no way to change things before 5.0 and probably a bit after that. In fact, I say that they should continue on with their current plan for blue mage. Put in the updates and make it full fleshed out. Just want them to also be working for a full version of the job to be added later on which would probably end up being a feature of the 6.0 expac.

You would be unhappy if there were two versions of blue mage or a toggle in DF to have the option of OP blue mage? Trying to make sure I understand since things wouldn't change for you and the others that want it as solo content.

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You can't say with 100% guarantee that things wouldn't remain the same for all the people, myself included, that want the Blu solo content. And yes, I wouldn't be happy if they split Blu into solo and raid content like so many people are demanding, before it's even seen in full. Many people that are outraged (Not all, just many) are so due to Blu not fitting what they think Blu should be, some of which were probably planning on becoming Blu main before anything about the class came out. Some are outraged probably due to being afraid that the introduction of a Limited Job will take away from their experience in end game content.

There will be people are always afraid of anything new and non-traditional. I'm ready to see something that breaks the mould.